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This 142 message thread spans 5 pages: < < 142 ( 1 2 3 [4] 5 > >     
An Early Holiday Gift from Google
Banned for Life
mortgagemax

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 2:29 am on Dec 3, 2009 (gmt 0)

On behalf of my wife and children we would like to thank you. After over a half dozen years and many MILLIONS spent in advertising you banned us. We had advertised many affiliate programs through the years. All legitimate products, in fact you approved the ads and worked with us in advertising them. Then one day you didn't like those products anymore. We eliminated any questionable products including those that were downgraded to a QS of 1. That apparently still was not enough. We received no explanation as to why we were banned, we received no warning (it was supposedly sent to an old email account despite you having all my current ones) and best of all there is no appeal process. I have never seen such brutal, harsh and completely heartless tactics. Thank you for absolutely destroying our holiday season.

 

engine

WebmasterWorld Administrator engine us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month Best Post Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 11:15 am on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

Mod note.
Clearly, this is an emotive subject, however, let's focus on the process, and not on individual's issues.

profitpuppy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 12:03 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

It's now 7 days and no response to the email to Google. Any ideas on how to get them to respond. Just keep sending emails, or should I give up and just accept that Google doesn't want me as a customer for a very strange reason (or some other unknown reason)?

Dlocks

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 12:13 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

You could try the contact form on the AdWords help pages. Most of the times I get a reply the same day when I use the contact form. I noticed in the past months that when I send an email directly to support (without a tracking ID in the subject) then sometimes I will never receive a reply.

StoutFiles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 2:01 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)


Google has a huge spam problem. People are constantly creating new accounts and testing the waters to see how much they can get away with before getting banned. People are always trying to break the rules in hopes they won't get caught. Google seems to just be sick of it and just nuked an entire section without regard to who got hurt. Sometimes when you remove cancer you remove normal cells. That is what happened to some people. Google does not care they are just very happy to be rid of a large chunk of cancer. If you play near cancer your going to get removed sometimes that is just how things work. If your business model resembles spammers you will get caught up in the net. That is the risk of doing that type of business.

Seconded. There awere some innocent people caught up in this I'm sure, and there are still plenty of spammers out there. Life isn't fair.

This is a lesson to the people who still have their accounts. DON'T PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN THE GOOGLE BASKET. An AdWords ban should not kill your business, and if it would, start looking for backup solutions right away. Relying on a middleman company to keep you in business is never a good idea.

zohan777

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 8:41 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

To anyone that had/has ANY doubts that the Google process for account banning is a major cluster-@#$@$#! Here's the latest on my end.

My account got banned on Dec 3rd - got the std. generic email from LPQ-support.

I replied the same day with an appeal.

Got a reply today (Dec 8th) explaining that after carefully researching my account they have determined that I have been promoting a "get rich quick" scheme and specify a domain that I've been promoting. The domain in question is NOWHERE to be found on ANY campaigns in my Adwords account.

HOWEVER,

I HAVE NEVER PROMOTED a "Get Rich Quick" scheme and specifically have never ever promoted the website and domain they're referring to.

I've replied to that effect.

THIS CLASSIC AND IRREFUTABLE PROOF they (Google) don't have a #$#%@! clue as to what how their automated process operates and how messed up it is.

I'll keep you posted if I hear back.

As promised, I received a reply. A dumb generic email saying they've have "carefully researched" the account and completely ignoring my challenge regarding the specific website in question.

I replied AGAIN, this time asking to have this escalated to a manager.

Got another reply saying: Sorry, I cannot help you and same dumb genetic email below.

Voxman

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 10:39 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)
[quote]your business model resembles spammers you will get caught up in the net. That is the risk of doing that type of business.[/quote]

We sell music books and instructionals on how to play guitar etc. and have been for over 10 years... how does that resemble any kind of spammer. What about the guy who said they actually mentioned a website that wasn't even his? They are messed up.

As for lying to get a chargeback? What about this...they have been giving us around 30% false clicks for 9 years now. Some says the figure is actually higher. We've had to eat it (we figured out they were giving back about 0.001%) So 120 days of credit card reversal should put us about even I would say. I'm not lying when I tell them we did not get the 'service that was promised'

They deserve that much at least I would say. The jury is still out whether we will do it or not but it will made on Monday or Tuesday of this week. It's a very substantial amount of money that we just might need to survive.

Then they can sue us for the money if they like and we'll make sure it's a CNN event. Better advertising then we could ever get from their search engine.

Voxman

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 11:06 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

The day after Google kicked us out they took $596 from the company credit card. They don't have any issues with taking money

timothius

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 11:17 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

@Voxman - Well that was money spent *before you were kicked out... so not sure what's wrong with that.

Google needs to become more transparent with it's users and advertisers. They have always been a super-secretive organization and when you are as big as they are, that's a bad idea. They need to start providing answers... soon.

Voxman

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 11:25 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

Like I said....if we don't get answers...we might just go after money and send them some non sensical email about their egronious clicks they have provided over the years and that we 'appreciate their co operation" like they did on their email. What was funny was the email had a link to policies that went to a page not found on google...lol...yah great landing page their google.

Dr_Netter

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 9:38 pm on Dec 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

I have seen comments in this thread and others that basically take Google's side in this specific situation. The specific situation being that a hosts of accounts have been closed by Google for "egregiously breaking Google policies".

These comments are either being made by people who don't understand the situation or they are shills for Google ("Yes, Bernice, they exist").

Here are the facts:

1. Legitimate, hard-working, non-scamming website operators are being dropped for non-specific reasons by Google after being loyal, paying customers for years.
2. Google's customer service reps are either worthless or they have zero ability to influence the situation.
3. Websites without any apparent infractions are being blacklisted.
4. Accounts that have tried to take corrective action blindly, since the reason for the site infractions is not clear, are being revoked because of their attempts to resolve the problem.
4. There does not appear to be a viable appeals process. Has anyone been reinstated?

I don't think Google is intentionally trying to disrupt good customers. But, the net affect is that solid Google citizens are being bankrupted or severely impacted financially and there does not seem to be any recourse. I hope they come to their senses quickly or it won't really matter anymore for our online business. I saw a really stupid comment on either this thread or somewhere else that said we should not have a business that depends on a middleman like Google for it's existence. Well, 8 years ago, Google was not the factor it is today. Who would think a company would ever be so fat, dumb and happy with their profits that they would discontinue service to a good, paying customers?

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 11:47 pm on Dec 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

Yes indeed, it's really stupid to take some of the money earned via Google AdWords, and earmark it to develop other marketing, such as email, direct mail or catalog, other search engines, other websites, social media, ebay, craig's list, etc etc etc., so as to lessen one's dependence on a *single* source. Those people are surely kicking themselves now.

Fat, dumb and happy? Uh, right.

kidder

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 11:56 pm on Dec 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

"DON'T PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN THE GOOGLE BASKET"

Agreed, Google has too much control of the global search market. If they had a serious competitor this would not be an issue but until that day arrives plenty of people are going to be locked into a Google based business model. I'm sure most of these people are aware of their position and it's not always easy or even possible the break out of it. Adaprt, change or die as they say.

La_Valette

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 1:54 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Yes indeed, it's really stupid to take some of the money earned via Google AdWords, and earmark it to develop other marketing, such as email, direct mail or catalog, other search engines, other websites, social media, ebay, craig's list, etc etc etc.

For the most part, those are far less effective (read: far more expensive per conversion) than search engine marketing, and Google is 80% of the search engine market. There simply is no viable alternative to Google at this time.

Voxman

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 2:36 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

We need to get a media hound all over this story...someone has to find out why they did and why with such a wide brush...I don't know if they were aiming at the bad guys or not...we certainly didn't deserve this treatment and I would really like to know the motivation behind this heavy handness

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 4:29 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

For the most part, those are far less effective (read: far more expensive per conversion) than search engine marketing, and Google is 80% of the search engine market. There simply is no viable alternative to Google at this time.

Then I strongly suggest you find another business. Because you're not going to force Google into doing business with you if they decide they don't want to. And even if you take them to court, even if you manage to rustle up a class action suit, it will be *years* before it's settled. And I for one doubt it would go in your favor. But even if it does, it will be years after THAT before you'd see anything out of it - and even then, it'd be some minor monetary compensation at best.

A business model that depends on ONE provider is inherently flawed. The only way it works is if you know going in that it could only be short term, you milk it for everything you can, and you have something prepared for if and when that one provider goes away.

And as soon as you say you HAVE to have Google in order to survive, as soon as you say it's the only choice, there isn't any other, then you've already lost. You're doomed to fail. You've boxed yourself in. And the only winner is... Google.

There are PLENTY of other ways to market, and there are PLENTY of other people who are doing it successfully. It's a lot harder than AdWords, and it takes more time. But it's just as lucrative in the end, and you aren't subject to the whims of one company.

The problem with AdWords (and AdSense for that matter) is that they're both too easy. Somewhere along the line, people got spoiled.

[edited by: netmeg at 4:31 am (utc) on Dec. 12, 2009]

Dr_Netter

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 4:30 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

netmeg, you must be kidding. To have any vendor that controls over 70% of any industry cut you off and provide no specific reason why is simply obscene. None of the measures you mention provide the level of risk or return that the search engine category provides. We all know that any business encounters risks. But, this is like the utility company cutting the service to your factory because they don't like the way you make your product. Sure, I guess I could have built an alternate energy source. But, seriously, would that be something you would do?

To have GOOGLE cut off customers, provide no clear reason why, and provide no real method of resolving the problem favorably for the customer is extremely heavy handed and incredibly harmful. Their mantra is "Do No Harm". This is way far from that...

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 4:32 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Google is not a utility just because you see it as one.

ken_b

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ken_b us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 4:49 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

I don't use AdWords, so I'm curious.

Is the contract/agreement/whatever different from the AdSense deal that basically says they can drop us at any time, for any reason, or for no reason, without any explanation, if I recall right?

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 4:56 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Pretty much the same. Also we can quit at any time. At will on both sides.

La_Valette

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 4:58 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Then I strongly suggest you find another business.

Our account hasn't been disabled, nor do I expect it to be, so I think we'll be sticking with this business, thank you very much. I was just commenting on how search engine marketing is universally acknowledged as the most cost-effective marketing tool ever invented; all other marketing methods you could care to mention don't even begin to compare.

Google is not a utility just because you see it as one.

I don't know what all this utility talk is about - I thought utilities were the folks who sent you power, gas, and water bills. I do know that Google dominates the search market by a wide margin in most major developed countries.

Dr_Netter

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 6:35 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

La_Valette, we handle a wide variety of online campaigns from DR to affiliate to PPC. I agree with your assessment. Overall, PPC provides the best return with the least risk. Affiliate marketing is laden with fraud and DR is expensive to get underway. Any method can be profitable if done properly. But, I agree with your statement about PPC's cost effectiveness.

netmeg, as far as Google is concerned, they can and are doing whatever they want to do without much concern about some of their honest customers. The sun comes up tomorrow, you have to adjust, diversification is the key and all the rest of that load. I get it. I have no sympathy for those who break the rules. I have been fighting them in PPC for 8 years now. They get what they deserve. But, it appears to me that the majority of comments here are from honest customers who are collateral damage from Google's recent insensitive and damaging behavior. They do no not have a clue why they were banned and they are told to "leave and don't come back". Pardon me if I don't pass up the opportunity to comment about this sort of travesty. What I can't figure out is why you side with this monopoly and seem to accept that the bully in the school yard is beating up on a smaller kid. "As long as I'm OK and I really don't know the kid and he probably said something really nasty to the bully...I would do best to walk away".

Just remember "Do No Harm"...

zohan777

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 8:11 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

@Dr_netter, Very well said - I agree 110%. No company the size of Goggle with a monopoly should be allowed this bullying behavior.

I'm certain they will eventually "get it" from another player who will remind them what humility is, just like Microsoft "got it" a few years ago.

smallcompany

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 8:35 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Kind of cutting this, but not really... since there were a lot of comments about how one should or should not do... while folks are trying to figure what's happening with AdWords in regards of account terminations (or however is that being defined today).

How many people uses (or used) Google AdWords in its full power (to the most of their knowledge), and yet earn more than half of their money elsewhere (like email, direct mail or catalog, other search engines, other websites, social media, ebay, craig's list, etc)?

Google has reached as far as being average Joe's browser web address bar today! People don't know (and don't care about) how to enter an address of the site they visit every day or use their bookmarks - they G(oogle) it every time!

Google has the coverage that no catalog or so can compete with it. As the matter of fact, these days, people read catalogs and then go to Google and type the stuff from the catalog into it and make their order online.

Not that I ultimately argue with "peanut here and peanut there to make a bag of peanuts," but at the same time, Google gets you a (big) truck of those peanuts.

aeramas

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 8:54 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Profitpuppy, I don't see any point in continuing to excessively email google support. They may be backlogged with emails as to why they have not replied. If 5 people send 5 emails in a week, that is 25 emails to the support queue. I am sure there were thousands that lost out, can you imagine answering 5k emails? with all 5 being from one person stating the same thing? I suggest give them time to reply.

aeramas

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 9:02 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

@ Voxman I have not used G for advertisements as of yet, but I am still willing to try it out. I do think you may be on to something about the media though. There are network news stations that do investigation work, just to exploit wrong doing. I am not taking sides with anyone here or G, I am going to stay neutral. Until anyone finds out the facts as to why anyone's account has been disabled, I think a formal investigation should be involved by a non-biased third party. This may even be the better business bureau or some other organization.

bcc1234

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 11:33 am on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Google is not a utility just because you see it as one.

That will be for the courts to determine, once a class action suit is started.

Of course it might not happen over this issue, just like nothing happened over the original QS deal (yet the backlash was just as strong).

But eventually, Google has two choices, it will either lose/hide/spread around some market share or it will become regulated.

Think 10 years from now... if all current trends continue.

A business model that depends on ONE provider is inherently flawed.

There is plenty of that going on in the off-line world. Tons of small companies depend on large players either for supply or for distribution. That's just how it is.

But it's really rare for a big player to simply dump someone without giving an explanation.

It almost seems as if Google is simply run by two geeks who, through their brilliance, have become extremely successful and extremely powerful without gaining enough life experience in the process. And the "resident adult" as they call him simply doesn't have enough say to put them in place when they make decisions magnitude of which those two can't (or don't want to) comprehend.

..."You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." -- Antuan de Sent Exupery

bryson

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 6:26 pm on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

It's now 7 days and no response to the email to Google.

Ditto.

zohan777

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 8:27 pm on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

[quote]There is plenty of that going on in the off-line world. Tons of small companies depend on large players either for supply or for distribution. That's just how it is.

But it's really rare for a big player to simply dump someone without giving an explanation. [\quote]

Exactly..

Has any of the largest newspapers ever banned any of their advertisers FOR LIFE? No way. They simply declined to advertise a specific Ad(s) if they felt it was inappropriate for any reason.

What makes Google think they can treat their customers with less courtesy than that? And these are the customers that made them who they are today! (remember, Adwords is what got Google off the ground - they were not making a dime from search alone!).

Their behavior is purely tyranny that comes from having a monopoly in the search market.

Voxman

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 8:47 pm on Dec 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

@ aeramas

I will be surprised actually if a journalist doesn't dig into this story. There is much more going on behind this than anyone realizes. Bad landing page? Fine don't run the ad (but we have 7-10 across the board so..define bad).

There is evil afoot here and I for one would welcome an investigation from a major media source.

kidder

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 12:31 am on Dec 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

Most people here should have the smarts to run a press release, I'm sure the story would get picked up pretty quickly, a few hard luck stories showing the human faces / families going bankrupt by the hand of the greedy monopoly .... "That stuff its's gold Jerry gold!"

Mister Bogdan

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4035863 posted 3:48 am on Dec 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

Has any of the largest newspapers ever banned any of their advertisers FOR LIFE? No way. They simply declined to advertise a specific Ad(s) if they felt it was inappropriate for any reason.

That is what i wanted to say to google defenders on this site. Very good point.

I think that this banning of google adwords accounts is second tryout to rise bids but in more sophisticated way. Do you remember before one year when bids was 10$ by default for some (every third) keywords? It seems that this "google trick" failed and we are the victims of a second.

They are so powerful and able to afford to remove customers which pays/paid a lot to their bank account. It is time for this EVIL MONOPOLY in America/World to COME TO ITS KNEES. Then our business cannot be hit if some company decide that content is poor quality just if you have free newsletter sign up section on website or affiliate link, etc. which is ultra stupid reason like all other presented reasons by google. They hide something probably.

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