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How to run broad, exact and phrase matches together?
I have some idea but expert comments always help
AjiNIMC




msg:3770100
 2:50 am on Oct 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

Say if I am running

Scenario #1
[blue widget] - $10
"blue widget" - $7
blue widget - $5

Which one will appear?

Scenario #2
[blue widget] - $10 - Ad group #A

"blue widget" - $7 - Ad group #B
blue widget - $5 - Ad group #B

Which one will appear?

What I am planning to do is:
[blue widget] - $10 - Ad group #A

"blue widget" - $7 - Ad group #B
blue widget - $5 - Ad group #B
~[blue widget] - Ad group #B (This will make sure that this exact word doesn't come here)

I want to run broad matching to discover keywords and then use it under different ad group (and may be different campaign to keep things simpler)

Will appreciate your advice.

Regards,
Aji Issac

 

AjiNIMC




msg:3770105
 3:00 am on Oct 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

I got this from an old page of 2004 using Google cache (SEW). This is an answer by Adwords Rep

you may be remembering a nuance of what happens when the same phrase is used as both an exact match and a broad match keyword in the same account. (As opposed to being used in your account, and also in a competitors account.)

When this is the case, the impression is assigned to the closest match to the actual keyword that a user has searched on.

That probably makes no sense without an example. Thus, below, please find an example!

Say you have these keywords in your account:

polished granite widget
"polished granite widget"
[polished granite widget]

* If I search on the phrase 'polished granite widget', then the exact match gets the impression.

* If I search on the phrase 'polished granite widget desk set' then the phrase match gets the impression

* If I search on the phrase 'polished gray granite widget' then the broad match gets the impression.

Hope that make sense. If not I'll try again later in the day after the coffee has kicked in! :eek:


cyberandroid




msg:3770109
 3:26 am on Oct 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

thats what should happen
not what does
to do what you actually want

ad group 1
"blue widget"
"widget blue"
-[blue widget]
-[widget blue]

ad group 2
[blue widget]
[widget blue]

or

ad group 1
blue widget
-[blue widget]
-[widget blue]

ad group 2
[blue widget]
[widget blue]

xurxo




msg:3770123
 4:30 am on Oct 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

cyberandroid is right. Since adwords is not a pure auction-based model, you'll have to make sure to include the negative exact matches -[keyword] inside of your adgroups containing broad and phrase matched keywords. This is to make sure that your traffic is being allocated to the proper keywords and adgroups.

If you don't include the negative exact matched keywords, then you could see a broad or phrase matched keyword getting impressions and clicks for exact matched queries that should be triggered by your exact matched keywords. One of the reasons why this happens is because your broad or phrase matched keyword could be graded with a higher quality score than your exact matched keyword even if you were bidding the same amounts on all match types.

There are other variables at play that will influence the quality score, but the setup that cyberandroid described will help you identify which keywords perform well traffic-wise and you'll be able to adjust your bids with better data. Not to mention your conversion data will be cleaner as well.

cyberandroid




msg:3770199
 7:01 am on Oct 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

i cannot think of any good reason to have the same keyword in phrase match and broad match targeting the same area ever

toast the most




msg:3770257
 9:38 am on Oct 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

I agree wholeheartedly with this and can say that since I switched an account to this method the CTR and QS's have been much much better than before. Without negatives, Google just shows whichever keyword is going to bring in the most money (in my cynical opinion).

BigJas




msg:3802075
 8:16 pm on Dec 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

Is there a way to isolate the additional clicks beyond broad match that are available with automatic matching? I'd love the extra clicks but its a nonstarter if I can't isolate them.

cyberandroid




msg:3802750
 6:56 pm on Dec 8, 2008 (gmt 0)

turn automatic matching on for the campaign

ad group 1
blue widget
-"blue widget"
-"widget blue"

ad group 2
"blue widget"
"widget blue"
-[blue widget]
-[widget blue]

ad group 3
[blue widget]
[widget blue]

--------------------------------
"i cannot think of any good reason to have the same keyword in phrase match and broad match targeting the same area ever "

i guess i spoke too soon

black




msg:3804613
 9:28 pm on Dec 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

cyberandroid suggested the proper way to have different matches of the same keywords.

IMO there are many reasons to have multiple matches in different adgroups. broad match and phrase match are very different beasts, BM are very useful to discover new keywords (with an analytics tool) and add them to phrase/exact.

Without broad match you miss the big opportunity of the long tail. Anyway pay attention to BM because you can get (more often lately) not converting traffic too.

My 2cents :)

AjiNIMC




msg:3804886
 4:39 am on Dec 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

Thanks for great inputs.

The_Grunt




msg:3805963
 9:47 am on Dec 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

cyberandroid.
Interesting suggestions there...
I would usually put the three match types in the one adgroup and filter out the poor performers after a few weeks.

I'm thinking now that the way I do it is totally wrong...

cyberandroid




msg:3806508
 12:26 am on Dec 13, 2008 (gmt 0)

you shouldn't be running all 3 in the same ad group ever...........

you shouldn't be running both phrase and broad in the same campaign
UNLESS you are testing out automatic matching
(not all accounts have it)

The_Grunt




msg:3807680
 8:22 am on Dec 15, 2008 (gmt 0)

would you advise using either a broad or a phrase match along with an exact match...?

RhinoFish




msg:3807944
 5:09 pm on Dec 15, 2008 (gmt 0)

"you shouldn't be running all 3 in the same ad group ever"

i do this fairly often. i do it with stratified bids to clarify what gets triggered, bidding exact higher than phrase, and phrase higher than broad, plus i add loads of negs.

but it's not so simple for me to say this is the best way to do it, you've got to test, there are too many factors involved.

of particular impact, is the length of the query, i.e., the nature of the searches you are seeking to target. there a triggering / matching difference, for example, when comparing one word, two word, three word, four word (etc) keywords... as well as other factors influencing the behavior of your selected keywords, bids, ad grouping and more.

cyberandroid




msg:3808103
 8:23 pm on Dec 15, 2008 (gmt 0)

i am not suggesting what RhinoFish is saying is wrong
only that what i am suggesting is a better practice (in general)
with more control and better consistency

The_Grunt




msg:3808435
 8:33 am on Dec 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

"you shouldn't be running all 3 in the same ad group ever"

i do this fairly often. i do it with stratified bids to clarify what gets triggered, bidding exact higher than phrase, and phrase higher than broad, plus i add loads of negs.

This is what I would usually do as well. Add loads of negatives and have different bids for different matching options....

I have been trying out cyberandroids suggestions last week, so fingers crossed...

Ray_Junior




msg:3808914
 9:48 pm on Dec 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

turn automatic matching on for the campaign

ad group 1
blue widget
-"blue widget"
-"widget blue"

ad group 2
"blue widget"
"widget blue"
-[blue widget]
-[widget blue]

ad group 3
[blue widget]
[widget blue]

I just tested this technique on my campaign yesterday and the CTR jumped from 0.51% to 0.94%.
It's almost DOUBLED and I can see my ads showing up frequently on top 3 position of my targeted keywords! Quality score on most keywords jumped from 7/10 to 9/10 !

The_Grunt




msg:3809435
 12:54 pm on Dec 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

I don't seem to have the option of using automatic matching in my campaign settings...I'll have to try it without..

RhinoFish




msg:3809540
 3:13 pm on Dec 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

the use of separate ad groups with steering negs is analogous to stratified single ad group method, as long as your stratification is sufficient. what i really mean, is the triggering will be the same. but the net effect is to group the best performers in separate ad groups... so when you report higher ctr, are you volume averaging (weighted average) the numbers you're posting? my gut feel is that by separating the stats, they look higher, cuz all the shiny ones are in a group by themselves... but since scoring is on a keyword basis, if you undid your grouping mathematically, you'd see the same numbers on the individual keyword basis... another way to look at it is, the consumer doesn't know if your exact match keyword is in a separate exact only ad group, so it's ctr doesn't go up by itself... perhaps the seaprate ad group methid prevents you from making poor stratified bid decisions, which would make it superior for lots of folks i guess.

The_Grunt




msg:3852242
 11:42 am on Feb 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

Sorry for dragging this up again, but I tried the suggestions above, and they are converting but Adwords is giving me the following message:

"A negative keyword is preventing your ad from showing"

If I have a broad match blue widget, Adwords is picking up that I also have -"blue widget" as a negative, in theory, the same keyword, but in reality a different match type. Is this therefore dragging down my performance...

cyberandroid




msg:3852263
 12:18 pm on Feb 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

ignore the message

stephen186




msg:3877021
 4:51 pm on Mar 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

"A negative keyword is preventing your ad from showing"

I am getting the same message.

Also i use the phrase match negative keyword with broad keyword group. How will it trigger my ad for broad keyword when there is negative phrase keyword is added. I understand it will not show impression only when this phrase is there in the keyword but what if the keyword that i am promoting is a movie name. shall I still go with the same way..

AjiNIMC




msg:3877057
 5:49 pm on Mar 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

If I understand it clearly,

You have

Blue widget
-"Blue widget"
Right?

I guess in this case majority of keyword under the group will be barred. I have also seen that Google puts a lot of (sometimes unwanted) intelligence into Ad matching.

I would personally won't advice doing,

Blue widget
-"Blue widget"

I would rather go for something like

Blue widget
-[Blue widget]
.... etc etc

I remember a case
XYZ area Painting and XYZ area paintings ... this (exact match) keyword in itself is triggering painting where as other matches were relevant XYZ area painting contracts (or companies e.t.c) .. I doubt if I would have gone for a phrase negative keyword.

I understand it will not show impression only when this phrase is there in the keyword but what if the keyword that i am promoting is a movie name. shall I still go with the same way..

Do let us know some more details, so that we can help further.

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