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This 39 message thread spans 2 pages: 39 ( [1] 2 > >     
Google to report Google vs Search Network?
shorebreak

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 8:34 pm on Oct 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

A colleague at an agency got an email from Google saying that they're soon going to break out impression/click/cost data between Google and the Search Network, and to expect this by the end of the week.

Anyone else hearing the same from their contact(s) at Google?

-Shorebreak

 

Sujan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 9:12 pm on Oct 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

Nope, heard nothing. But: Wohooo!

- Jan

cyberandroid

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 9:53 pm on Oct 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

amazing now we get proof how much the search network sucks

SanDiego Art

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 10:13 pm on Oct 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

But will you be able to target them separately? That is what I'm waiting for!

nakita_dog

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 12:43 pm on Oct 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

> But will you be able to target
> them separately? That is what
> I'm waiting for!

You can target them separately and you have been able to do so for some time now. Checkout your campaign settings. It is in there.

cyberandroid

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 1:47 pm on Oct 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

no you cannot

you can target google search only or both
but you cant target them seperately

nakita_dog

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 1:51 pm on Oct 8, 2008 (gmt 0)

Sorry about that, you are correct. You can target Google search on its own but you cannot target search partners on their own.

bw3ttt

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 3:56 pm on Oct 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

I noticed yesterday that the Search network is now scraping the bottom of the barrel with traffic from findology and some of the same sources that supply my 3 cent per click 2nd tier campaigns.

I've shut off the search network until they allow advertisers to block domains. They could easily do it but won't do it.

misterjonez

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 2:11 am on Oct 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

I tried switching off search networks on two of my campaigns for just one day and resumed it by the next day and guess what? I got conversions. Before i got nothing on search networks. do the conversions has something to do when i resumed search networks? i have no idea.

toast the most

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 9:03 am on Oct 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

Interesting - they are having some downtime this weekend - could be implement something like this?

xurxo

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 2:15 pm on Oct 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

It would be great if Google became more transparent with their search network performance and allowed us to separately target and measure the performance from it.

There is a workaround in the meantime for those of you using Google Analytics where you can through the use of a filter, see how well the search network is performance. This way you can make a more informed decision as to whether you should advertise there or not.

[edited by: engine at 12:01 pm (utc) on Oct. 17, 2008]
[edit reason] No urls, thaks [/edit]

nakita_dog

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 8:43 pm on Oct 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

I can confirm that I have begun to see the breakdown of Google Search and Search Partners in some of my client's AdWords accounts. This is definitely good news.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will the Search Partners be outperforming Google or will Google Search be outperforming the Search Partners?

As far as I can tell, there is still no way to have a Search Partners only campaign. It still says, "Requires Google search" next to the check box.

ppcbuyers

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 11:40 pm on Oct 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

I just got this email:

We're happy to let you know that we've changed the way your Campaign Summary and Ad Group Summary pages present statistics in order to give you additional level of detail into your campaign performance. Previously, these pages divided statistics into two categories: search, which included Google and search partners, and the content network.

Now, we show one set of statistics for Google and another set aggregating search partner performance. Search partners include AOL, Ask.com, and many other search sites around the web. You can view ad group or campaign performance at a summary level, or broken down by different combinations of Google, our search partners, and our content network. Additionally, separate Google and aggregate search partner statistics will soon be available in the Report Center.

[adwords.google.com...]

cyberandroid

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 11:40 pm on Oct 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

cool

xurxo

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 11:41 pm on Oct 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

Yep, I'm seeing the same thing in client accounts that we've opted to advertise both on Google and the search partner network.

Finally some extra transparency so we don't have to resort to using advanced Google analytics filters to get this data.

Still frustrating that we can't opt out of the search partners network if we want to - not cool!

shorebreak

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 11:43 pm on Oct 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will the Search Partners be outperforming Google or will Google Search be outperforming the Search Partners?

I can tell you the answer to that already, based on having seen 3-4 years' worth and hundreds of millions of $$ worth of spend for which we had reporting akin to what xurxo describes: Google's Search Partners' conversion value is far (25%+) below the value of Google.com traffic. The AOL and the Ask.com traffic converts reasonably well - and in some cases AOL's baby boomer traffic converts even better than Google.com, but by and large Google's search network is better than Yahoo's by far, but far from Google.com.

engine

WebmasterWorld Administrator engine us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month Best Post Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 12:03 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

Google AdWords Now Shows Separate Metrics For Search Partners [adwords.blogspot.com]
we've changed the way your Campaign Summary and Ad Group Summary pages present statistics in order to give you additional level of detail into your campaign performance. Previously, these pages divided statistics into two categories: search, which included Google and search partners, and the content network.

Now, we show one set of statistics for Google and another set aggregating search partner performance. Search partners include AOL, Ask.com, and many other search sites around the web. You can view ad group or campaign performance at a summary level, or broken down by different combinations of Google, our search partners, and our content network. Additionally, separate Google and aggregate search partner statistics will soon be available in the Report Center.


RhinoFish

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 1:52 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

excellent! new data to crunch / digest!

xurxo

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 2:12 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

I can tell you the answer to that already, based on having seen 3-4 years' worth and hundreds of millions of $$ worth of spend for which we had reporting akin to what xurxo describes: Google's Search Partners' conversion value is far (25%+) below the value of Google.com traffic. The AOL and the Ask.com traffic converts reasonably well - and in some cases AOL's baby boomer traffic converts even better than Google.com, but by and large Google's search network is better than Yahoo's by far, but far from Google.com.

I can back shorebreak's statement up from data we've seen as well: While some sites on the search partner network like Ask.com and AOL do tend to bring in cost effective conversions, without the ability to single these out, the added cost of advertising on the whole search network is often not worth the incremental conversions.

I hope that this will the next step for Google - give us the ability to handpick which sites on the search network we want to advertise on, just as they eventually did with the content network by offering us placement targeted campaigns.

MadeWillis

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 2:23 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

I've been doing this myself for some time, but glad to see they are now being open about it. Too bad most advertisers will never know exactly which search partners are sending the traffic.

chewy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 3:36 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

and the feature looks like you can look at past history -- not bad!

now if only we could tag discreet conversions relative to actual source so as to get a sense of the qualitative value of the conversions.

poster_boy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 4:50 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

I hope that this will the next step for Google - give us the ability to handpick which sites on the search network we want to advertise on, just as they eventually did with the content network by offering us placement targeted campaigns.

Agreed. Without greater control - to either opt-out of sites or bid against individual sites, this visibility will lead to search network opt-outs... This seems to be the only control that we have presently to "optimize" poor performing search network traffic.

brzy56

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 6:47 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

OK, the new data is launched now.

I haven't spent that much time with it yet, but right off the bat I can see certain "types" of keywords that do really well with search partners, and other "types" that don't. I have to dig into it more though.

Anyone else finding anything interesting? Cutting Search partners out altogether? Deduced anything?

moderngamer

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 9:34 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

At first glance it looks like 90% of my conversions are from google search only not the network.

I'll have to dig more and double check

shorebreak

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 10:33 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

At first glance it looks like 90% of my conversions are from google search only not the network.

67% of Google's revenue in Q3 came from Google-owned properties. If 90% were an average, then Google's revenues are 26.4% (US$1.46B in Q3) higher than they should be from a pure conversion perspective.

moderngamer

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 10:36 pm on Oct 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

Good point

I should also mention that my overall numbers are so small they are probably statistically insignificant

tripleox

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 9:52 am on Oct 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

Wow, just split stats on an account. Bye bye Search Network!

good2go

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 8:51 pm on Oct 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

Track your conversion costs.

Compare Google vs. Partners.

We totally disabled Partners in a few campaigns after seeing 100 to 200% higher conversion costs.

No wonder they didn't show this data for so long.

shorebreak

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 9:31 pm on Oct 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

This is distribution fraud, committed by G's distribution partners and with G's negligence. 'Do No Evil' is verrrrry different from either The Golden Rule (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you) or the Boy Scout Motto, which reads

"A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheeful, Thrify, Brave, Clean and Reverent."

I'm no saint, but I don't control $20B in buying intent either. With great power comes great responsibility...

Swanson

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3759987 posted 12:01 am on Oct 22, 2008 (gmt 0)

Hmmm, it all leads to one key question - why provide this data now?

Why show how inferior the search network is to Google - yet provide no tools to optimise the search network, except turning it off?

Unless this is actually what they want to happen, i.e. rather than terminating whole partner contracts, they get customers to opt-out intentionally when their conversion costs on the search network are too high. Thus leaving some income from search partners that works for customers - rather than none. At the same time the reduction in net income is not that much affected when you factor in traffic acquisition costs (partner revenue share).

End result, reduction in reliance on search partners - higher ROI for customers, potentially higher bids on Google network (100% revenue share).

Factor in expectation of Google ads on Yahoo websites (not their partners) - and they have pretty much replaced (and the rest) that loss of income and further reduced their need for managing a larger partner network.

So, is this a way of Google getting customers to "downscale" the partner network for them?

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