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This 64 message thread spans 3 pages: 64 ( [1] 2 3 > >     
Who's being affected by the new QS?
Ads don't show, but QS still listed as 'Great'
arieng




msg:3745266
 8:14 pm on Sep 15, 2008 (gmt 0)

I've managed to navigate through every QS update so far without ever really being affected. This time, however, I think we may not be so lucky.

I've noticed about a 40% drop in traffic and revenue from AdWords, starting a little over a week ago. The most disconcerting aspect is that my AdWords account does not reflect what is going on.

I've looked at a couple of specific phrases that are down in traffic. My AdWords account is saying that the ad is being shown in search results and that my quality score is 'Great'. However, it is nowhere to be seen on the actual SERP and the traffic drop seems to say that I'm not the only one not seeing the ad.

This particular phrase is somewhat competitive, with normally about 12 advertisers targeting the term. Now, only one competitor shows up.

(Note: the competitor that does show up seems to be about the only one not affected. There are hundreds of phrases that went from very competitive to only their ad. I'm trying to figure out how they survived unscathed, but as yet haven't figured it out.)

Anyone else seeing dramatic changes?

 

ipohopper




msg:3745283
 8:54 pm on Sep 15, 2008 (gmt 0)

I haven't gotten hit yet. I have a feeling this new "dynamic" QS is just going to make things harder to figure out.

AdWordsAdvisor




msg:3745295
 9:28 pm on Sep 15, 2008 (gmt 0)

I've managed to navigate through every QS update so far without ever really being affected. This time, however, I think we may not be so lucky. [...]

I am about 99.98% sure that this has not started to go live for all advertisers yet, arieng - so my thought (with that same level of certainty) is that what you are seeing is unrelated to the upcoming Quality Score changes.

AWA

Greenman




msg:3745326
 10:44 pm on Sep 15, 2008 (gmt 0)

I'm 100% sure it's live in my account and it's ugly.

francie brady




msg:3745354
 12:13 am on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

I have KW's that are not showing up in various campaigns/countries and others that do. QS doesn't appear to make much of a difference - some are Great 8/10 and some are Ok 5/10 -- ads still not showing. Says 'I have reached or exceeded my budget' - added more money to make sure, still no effect. Why does this always have to be so hard?

AdWordsAdvisor




msg:3745355
 12:15 am on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

Yep, Greenman is correct that these changes have indeed gone live.

Timing is everything. Turns out this occurred less than a half hour after my previous post. ;)

AWA

limitup




msg:3745357
 12:17 am on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

I bet this causes Google to lose money, not make more money. People are really getting fed up with all this quality score BS and lack of transparency.

I bid on my own @#$@!#$@ brand/site name and my quality score is Poor. Whatever google!

Swanson




msg:3745363
 12:27 am on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

Classic!

Greenman says its gone live and it's ugly (not a good statement) - AdwordsAdvisor then confirms it is live but with no more info! Now if ever a post deserves a bit more info... this is it!

You are on your own.....

AdWordsAdvisor




msg:3745374
 1:33 am on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

Classic!

Greenman says its gone live and it's ugly (not a good statement) - AdwordsAdvisor then confirms it is live but with no more info! Now if ever a post deserves a bit more info... this is it!

My apology, Swanson and others. I was making an incorrect (and unwise) assumption that folks here would be aware of the Inside AdWords blog post from earlier today, since it was mentioned in another thread on the same topic.

Due to the WebmasterWorld's charter for the AdWords forum, I am not able to link to it - but it is easy to find. Or, even better, perhaps another WebmasterWorld member who is not also a Google employee will link to it. ;)

At the bottom of that post is a link that directs you to a number of FAQs on this subject, which I will also link to here:

[adwords.google.com...]

AWA

edd1




msg:3745403
 1:58 am on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

Nice work. Pretty seamless from here.

I think it will make things much easier for new advertisers. The one thing that disappoints me just a tiny bit is not being able to see the quality score grades by default.

OK is not simply OK. In the old terms it could be OK (min bid 0.07) or OK (min bid 0.30) A big difference in the respective likelihood of decent traffic.

In the new system that would be a score out of 10. I'd like to see that in the adgroup interface either by default or a customizable option. Any chance of this AWA?

limitup




msg:3745413
 2:31 am on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

I guess it's being rolled out in stages. I'm in limbo. I see things like "Bid is below first page bid estimate of $1.25" next to some keywords, yet there is no "Show Est. First Page Bids" option in the column dropdown menu.

Here's something from the "things that make you go hmmm" category:

Is the first page bid estimate expected to make people bid more?

First page bid estimates are based on recent historical data and your keywords' Quality Scores. They are not expected to make advertisers bid more or to raise prices. They only give more insight into where your bids are likely to place your ad. If your ad is already appearing on the first page of search results for a particular keyword, for instance, then the first page bid estimate is expected to be similar to your recent cost-per-click (CPCs) on that keyword.

Considering how inaccurate the Google keyword tool, etc. are when it comes to bid prices, I wonder how inaccurate (i.e. waaay too high) these reported bids will be...

flanker23




msg:3745473
 6:42 am on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

I have odd keywords requesting higher bids to appear on 1st page but otherwise everything is active but as of yesterday (15th) traffic levels are seriously down?

Marcia




msg:3745481
 7:05 am on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

Here's the latest post on the topic on the Adwords blog [adwords.blogspot.com]

Last month, we posted about upcoming Quality Score improvements -- and today, we're following up to notify you that these changes will take effect in all advertisers' accounts over the next few days.

They're calling them improvements, and in the previous post in August [adwords.blogspot.com] being referred to, they're explaining some about how query time quality evaluation works.

Most importantly, we are replacing our static per-keyword Quality Scores with a system that will evaluate an ad's quality each time it matches a search query. This way, AdWords will use the most accurate, specific, and up-to-date performance information when determining whether an ad should be displayed. Your ads will be more likely to show when they're relevant and less likely to show when they're not. This means that Google users are apt to see better ads while you, as an advertiser, should receive leads which are more highly qualified.

How can there be a rating given for an ad if it's now done real-time and it's query dependent?

Green_Grass




msg:3745483
 7:28 am on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

It seems to me to be a dilution of the QS as it allows more ads to be shown.. The previous non dynamic thing was a take it or leave it kind of a thing.. This allows more options for Google to use up ad inventory.


netmeg




msg:3745651
 2:15 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

I haven't gotten too far into it yet, but thus far, I likes it.

Are we ever going to have something similar for the Content Network?

Green_Grass




msg:3745692
 3:17 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

"Are we ever going to have something similar for the Content Network? "

Aw... leave the content network alone.. It is the least complicated way to get some targetted traffic. Let the small advertisers survive...


arieng




msg:3745714
 3:40 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

[cringing]
Ah shucks, I guess I better come clean. I, uh, kinda did this to myself. About a week ago, I decided to test out some Canadian traffic since the offline sales to Canada have been up. Instead of adding Canada...I changed to Canada, hence the big drop off in traffic & revenue.
[/cringing]

The good news is I was able to maintain about 50% of my revenue with just Canadian traffic.

I'm seeing the new quality score, it looks good, and I apologize for blaming the new quality score for something that was entirely my fault. Thanks for being on top of it AWA!

thecloser




msg:3745739
 4:23 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

AWA: Please pass along to the product team that it would awesome if you could see the 4/10, 9/10 readout beside the "Great" or "OK" display.

ipohopper




msg:3745769
 5:10 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

where do you see the 4/10, 9/10 readouts?

nevermind...... i found it

Rehan




msg:3745773
 5:12 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

Ditto to thecloser's suggestion.

ogletree




msg:3745831
 6:32 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

Yeah the QS thing is a complete failure. I have a situation where a large local auto dealer bids on a term like city car model and I get poor quality. How in the world can that be. I even sent a mail to google and they really did not answer my question. If you have a large car dealer how is a term that is the name of the city and the car model that goes to a page about that car model that mentions the city not quality. There is no better quality than that. I even tried to point out that I am number one in the organic results. It is a very competitive term in a very large city. If I can get number one in organic for that term why can't I get excellent in ppc. That shows how stupid this system is. Google needs to stop telling us how to run our business. They don't know what they are doing if they can't get something this simple working.

smallcompany




msg:3745834
 6:42 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

I think it will make things much easier for new advertisers. The one thing that disappoints me just a tiny bit is not being able to see the quality score grades by default.

AWA: Please pass along to the product team that it would awesome if you could see the 4/10, 9/10 readout beside the "Great" or "OK" display.

Ditto to thecloser's suggestion.

I’m all in favor, too. Show the numerical score!

How can there be a rating given for an ad if it's now done real-time and it's query dependent?

In some cases, situation is pretty static. That means your score will more or less stay the same, until AdWords recognizes improvements in ads, landing page, and who knows what else. This would equal to frequent changes I saw recently (in a range of 0.04-0.05). The only reason I noticed them was the fact that 0.05 stopped being Great, but became OK.

I still could agree with the statement-question as this means kind of QS may change every time a query has been performed.

One thing that I see as useful is to have this in hourly report. Let us see how QS fluctuates on hourly bases (daily, monthly, too). That will help many advertisers to settle down, get used to it, and actually use it in positive way, all in order to improve their QS.

QS thing is a complete failure

I completely agree with some advertisers and understand their frustration. We all experienced that weird and stunned feeling when we see how AdWords contradicts Google Search.
That should not be the case.
If a site is of a company offering products and/or services themselves, and if it provides all the info on the landing page and throughout the site (like car make/model and other info, including a location), AdWords better matches the search query to that site.
Now, if there are much better sites already showing in AdWords, I could step back and say “that’s why”.
But then, how come the “poor” one ranks well in organic? (if true).

netmeg




msg:3745846
 6:55 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

I completely agree with some advertisers and understand their frustration. We all experienced that weird and stunned feeling when we see how AdWords contradicts Google Search.
That should not be the case.
If a site is of a company offering products and/or services themselves, and if it provides all the info on the landing page and throughout the site (like car make/model and other info, including a location), AdWords better matches the search query to that site.
Now, if there are much better sites already showing in AdWords, I could step back and say “that’s why”.
But then, how come the “poor” one ranks well in organic? (if true).

Because you're leaving one very essential piece out of the puzzle - the AD. With organics, you don't have to worry about running good and relevant ads; with PPC, you do.

Your Keywords, Ads and landing page all have to be extremely tightly focused to each other - leave one out, and your QS will almost certainly tank.

If you are confident that your landing page and your loading times are good (and you can check what Google thinks of these things in your AdWords Preview when you mouse over the magnifying glass) then you need to take a look at your ad text, and possibly your campaign organization.

I posted this in the other QS post in this forum (maybe they should be stuck together or one closed or something):

I had some keywords that were hovering between ok and poor, and I had an idea what was wrong with them, but they were of lesser priority so were at the bottom of the list. Went to look at them now, and it told me exactly what I needed to do - which is what I suspected - loading time fine, landing page fine, but the ad text wasn't quite relevant enough to the keyword. They're more specifically-themed keywords in a general-themed ad group, so now I know I need to move them into their own group, write ads specifically for them, and they should be fine.

smallcompany




msg:3745898
 8:34 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

the AD

The reality is that AdWords is putting some considerable weight onto ads. I personally disagree with that weight. I think it’s too much.
Ads should carry weight as they are the only thing people see when they use AdWords. They don’t see sites until they click onto an ad.

Still, having (in old times) QS of a keyword going from OK (0.15) to Great (0.05) just after a little tweak, that’s something I do not welcome.

Going back to the comment – you’re absolutely right, “organic” people have to think about that side of the complete PPC world.

We all have two choices – to complain and express ourselves here and elsewhere – or to adapt and figure what can be done so we continue to perform.

“Who Moved My Cheese” has not been sold in millions of copies for nothing.

Get back to work... and do something.

Thanks Netmeg

biking4jesus




msg:3745962
 10:45 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

what kind of scores are you people seeing? I havent found anything less than a 6, most are 7 or 8.

prior to the change the majority of my scores were "Great" with a few "Ok". Pretty seamless transition here, I've noticed many more "ok" but thats due to the timing of an extensive reorganization effort of our accounts. I actually spotted keywords with 9/10 scores which was great knowing they had only been in the account under a week.

limitup




msg:3746039
 2:53 am on Sep 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

Getting good relevance with your ad and keywords is the easy part. Anyone can do that. The landing page part of the equation is the problem. Like when I bid on my brand name, use the brand name in the ad, and link to a page that is obviously about my brand name, and Google says everything is great except my landing page isn't "highly relevant". Or the other example with the car dealer. It's just ridiculous. This is my own $@#$@! brand name, with a highly optimized page. There is no more relevant page on the entire Internet than the one I linked to in my ad!

PPC Consultant




msg:3746050
 3:19 am on Sep 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

I change the lowest ctr ad on each and every ad group once a month. Top traffic ad groups get ad updates weekly. It is the only way to keep a good QS - assuming you have a good LPS, KWs, account structure, etc

limitup




msg:3746092
 5:52 am on Sep 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

No offense but that's ridiculous. You don't have to change your ads weekly. I have "top traffic" ad groups that have been running the same ad for over a year with all keywords GREAT.

flanker23




msg:3746101
 6:10 am on Sep 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

Without changing anything my spend with G has fallen from first place to third place overnight behind Y and MSN (strangely MSN traffic and conversion is up). But it's not just impressions that are down, the actual ctr on the lower impressions is way down without me changing anything which is surely counter productive for me and G?

rise2it




msg:3746166
 9:04 am on Sep 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

Maybe someday Google will wakeup and realize that webmasters don't want an advertising program that takes 25 hours a day to run.

...but I doubt it.

This 64 message thread spans 3 pages: 64 ( [1] 2 3 > >
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