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Done with AdWords
ember




msg:3151350
 2:40 pm on Nov 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

500 relevant, targeted keywords going to relevant, targeted pages in the site. Hardly a shotgun approach. 5% CTR over several months. Bids were .04. Today, wake up and Google wants $1 - $5 per click.

So that is the final straw. We are done, done, done and I hope someone comes soon to knock Google off its arrogant perch. I will not spend another dime with them ever again.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And the little guy gets screwed again.

[edited by: ember at 3:15 pm (utc) on Nov. 9, 2006]

 

ember




msg:3155889
 4:35 am on Nov 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

If it is not out and out false, it is at least misleading. Google can do whatever it wants, I suppose, but it also has a responsibility to act in good faith and not mislead advertisers.

Google is simply an example of a once-small company now enjoying meteoric success and, as we say in the West, getting too big for its britches. Someone will come knock them down to size one day. Can't happen soon enough, in my opinion.

Kings on steeds




msg:3156053
 11:09 am on Nov 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

Did someone say Panama?

I think the new yahoo system might just come in on time to ride on the wave of contention caused by Google!

Watch this space!

Alan

La_Valette




msg:3156068
 11:32 am on Nov 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

I thought I wasn't affected by the recent google changes but just noticed that some previously great-performing keywords I was buying for under $0.2 have been bid up to $5 and $10. The landing page is very high quality - great content, no affiliate links, etc. No visible competition for these keywords that I can see either. Of course I can't afford anything even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what Google is asking now, so the ads are no longer running. Doesn't make sense to me - looks like all members of the triangle (Google, Google users, yours truly) are losing out here.

pacweb




msg:3156422
 5:47 pm on Nov 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

I am having the same problem. I had about 100 fantastic keywords, which converted great on my site. Then, starting in august, all those great converting keywords got de-activated. Unless, i pay $10 a click for those kewwords, they won't be active. Well, if I pay that kind of money, might as well file bankruptcy. Whatever Google considers relevant is not relevant to my site. Reverse computer thinking. Go figure!

Celicaphile




msg:3156668
 11:03 pm on Nov 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

How is that a false claim?

Referring to:
Set your budget
There's no minimum spending requirement--the amount you pay for AdWords is completely up to you. For example, you can set a daily budget of five dollars and choose to pay five cents each time your ad is clicked.

How is it a false claim you ask? Really?

1) "There's no minimum spending requirement" - Minimum spending requirement is what is required to be spent for your ad to appear, which is set by Google, regardless of whether or not my ad would be the only one on for those keywords/phrases. Google has set my minimum spending requirement at $.15 to $.20 for keywords/phrases w/ no other ads showing.

2) "the amount you pay for AdWords is completely up to you." - The amount I pay is up to me, assuming that payment requires usage - if my ads aren't displayed, there is no payment. By stating that I CAN pay, they are granting me the ability to have my ads displayed if my bids are competitive. If there are no competing ads, then mine should show, then I can pay.

3) "you can set a daily budget of five dollars" - I can set a daily budget but that leads a rational person to believe that it's possible for that budget to be reached, or that it exists for some logical purpose.

4) "choose to pay five cents each time your ad is clicked" - I can choose to pay five cents per click, which, again, leads a rational person to believe that your ads have the ability to be clicked, especially if there is absolutely no competition - zero, nill, niet, nada, not a darn ad to compete with!

Celicaphile




msg:3156679
 11:23 pm on Nov 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

Let's rewrite the above quote from Google so that it's actually true:

Set your desired budget if you're delusional & think we let you
There may or may not be a minimum spending requirement (we'll never admit one way or the other)--the amount you would hope to pay for AdWords is completely up to you and by "you" we mean us. For example, you can wish to set a daily budget of five dollars, not that it matters, and choose to desire to pay five cents each time your ad is clicked, not that it will ever happen if we have a say in the matter.

aeiouy




msg:3157021
 8:21 am on Nov 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

How is it a false claim you ask? Really?

Yeah i did, and I suspect when I am done with this post, I will ask it again.

1) "There's no minimum spending requirement" - Minimum spending requirement is what is required to be spent for your ad to appear, which is set by Google, regardless of whether or not my ad would be the only one on for those keywords/phrases. Google has set my minimum spending requirement at $.15 to $.20 for keywords/phrases w/ no other ads showing.

You are partially right. There is a minimum spending requirement of .01 as that is the lowest amount of currency you can use to buy any ad on Google. But besides actually having to bid some amount of money, it is not a requirement. You can get ads for a .01. There are a lot of factors that determine how much you pay. Once again it did not tell you you could get as much traffic as you want for any keyword you want for any price that you want. That is how you choose to look at it, but that is not what they said.

You are not required to run a budget of $x a day, month, week or year. You can spend as much as you want or as little as you want.

2) "the amount you pay for AdWords is completely up to you." - The amount I pay is up to me, assuming that payment requires usage

So what? That is not a false claim. It is an accurate one. You do get to ultimately determine how much you will pay. It may not get you the ad placement you desire, but you have total control over how much you are willing to spend. The reality is the amount I pay for pretty much anything is up to me. The amount I pay for a car is up to me too. That does not mean I can pay $1.00 for a Porsche, unless someone was selling a Porsche for $1.00. However it does mean I don't have to pay $25,000 for a Hyundai if I don't want to either.

- if my ads aren't displayed, there is no payment. By stating that I CAN pay, they are granting me the ability to have my ads displayed if my bids are competitive. If there are no competing ads, then mine should show, then I can pay.

So you are just adding stuff onto their statement that they never said? Where are you getting all this stuff about having no ads display and being displayed? The short blurb you quoted talks about nothing of the sort.

3) "you can set a daily budget of five dollars" - I can set a daily budget but that leads a rational person to believe that it's possible for that budget to be reached, or that it exists for some logical purpose.

I hit my Google budget every single day. Just because you set a budget doesn't mean it all gets spent.

4) "choose to pay five cents each time your ad is clicked" - I can choose to pay five cents per click, which, again, leads a rational person to believe that your ads have the ability to be clicked, especially if there is absolutely no competition - zero, nill, niet, nada, not a darn ad to compete with!

I am a rational person and I would not assume that. Admittedly the Google bidding system is a bit complex and has a lot of factors, but only the ignorant think they should get as many 5 cent clicks as they can muster, even after reading that statement.

Sorry, but there are no false claims there at all. I can start a campaign right now with a 1 cent bid, a 1 cent budget, and get 1 click a day. The fact that I can do that, and I am not guessing, I know because I have a campaign where I only pay 1 cent per click, that pretty much negates all of your arguments.

Celicaphile




msg:3157326
 2:59 pm on Nov 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

The problem w/ their claim is w/ the wording...

spend verb (used with object)to pay out, disburse, or expend; dispose of (money, wealth, resources, etc.):

pay - verb (used with object) to transfer money as compensation or recompense for work done or services rendered; to satisfy the claims of (a person, organization, etc.), as by giving money due

Since Google is stating that I can spend and pay, not just desire to, implies that I will get something in return for it, thus my ads being displayed. I was applying my own personal experience, as covered in great detail in this thread, to their statement, proving how it's absolutely false in my case. It may not be false for you, so more power to you... The fact that they say say I can pay, not just want to pay, $.05 per click means, without a doubt, that my ads should be displayed when there is absolutely no other ads showing & nothing to drive up the price. They don't mention in that statement these arbitrary factors they make up to satisfy their greed, so you are reading more into their statement than I am.

sailorjwd




msg:3158905
 7:00 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

I discovered something very interesting today.

I can make money without Adwords and I can put affiliate links and YPN and Adsense ads on any page I want to (within the rules).

Now I have an infinite ROI.

The only problem is I don't think I'll be getting another million-click refrig again :(

Spending 16 hours a day fighting Adwords trying to get back to $1000 per day isn't worth it and won't work.

Congratulations Adwords! you win!

[edited by: mona at 5:08 pm (utc) on Nov. 17, 2006]
[edit reason] language [/edit]

walrus




msg:3158951
 7:36 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

This is a bit disturbing to read all these threads about dropped campaigns, hopefully the big G will respond to the advertisers concerns with some positive changes. If not, then good luck with your new programs.

Also disturbing that if so many ads cost more why do i make same or less per ad?
Is it because many campaigns have been pulled and there is less in the pool, exaggerated by the fact there are thousands more sites with adsense on them then there were last year?

walrus




msg:3159149
 10:21 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

Also disturbing that if so many ads cost more why do i make same or less per ad?

I forgot, i'm part of the content network, thats why.

Wlauzon




msg:3159647
 9:31 am on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

I don't quite understand why everyone is blaming Google for the high ad prices.

It seems to me that if a keyword jumps from .10 to $10 that someone else must be bidding on it.

I doubt very much that Google just sets minimum bids out of the blue.

And though Google does not tell you what others are bidding, you can sometimes get a rough idea by raising your bid until you go from the #2 ad to the #1 ad. And I have seen some rediculous bids by our competitors on Yahoo - in one instance the high bid was $3.50 on a $15 item (2nd bid was around 40 cents). Now you would have to have some mega-ROI to make any money from that.

ronmcd




msg:3159654
 9:49 am on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

It seems to me that if a keyword jumps from .10 to $10 that someone else must be bidding on it.

No no no. The reason has NOTHING to do with how many competitor ads there are, hasnt for 6 months. For example lets say your min increases from $0.10 to $1 with no new advertisers. You increase your bid as you suggest, and find your ad only shows in position 1 in the blue. If you pay any less you dont appear, even at $0.10 position 1 may not be where you want to be. That makes great sense doesnt it? Use a different domain and at least initially you can get back to where you were, or you can redesign your site and make it the way the almighty google-god wants (why should we?) and wait for a month and HOPE they like it better. Hope, no certainty. Wheres the professionalism gone google? How dare google play with advertisers money in this way, even if there are ways round it?

You CANNOT compare two competitors anymore directly in terms of cpc, too many other hidden elements involved. And lack of transparency on this scale leads to the inevitable conclusion the system is corrupt and unfair. Its all to do with the "rip-off" score. I refuse to keep calling it a quality score any more. We all KNOW the real rubbish ads still clog the adwords listings, so even IF the intention was good on googles part its been a failure when good advertisers are culled and the rubbish seems to get stronger.

[edited by: mona at 5:10 pm (utc) on Nov. 20, 2006]
[edit reason] language [/edit]

ember




msg:3159837
 2:16 pm on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

The majority of our .04 keywords had no competitors. They were cheap with a solid CTR and productive for us. Google just arbitrarily bumped the price. It has nothing to do with competitive pricing and everything to do with GREED.

Celicaphile




msg:3160054
 5:47 pm on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Exactly... They had the nerve to tell me that in order to lower the minimum spending requirement (which they deny having) I need to target my ad, my keywords, and my site better!

For example, if my site was a forum based on blue widgets using the domain name bluewidgetforum.com, and my ad was something like this:

Blue Widget Forum
Join and discuss blue widgets
with other blue widget owners
BlueWidgetForum.com

and I was bidding on keywords/phrases like "blue widget forum"

and there is absolutely no other ads showing...

They say that I need to pay $.20 per click

Otherwise I need to optimize?!? There is nothing to optimize! That ad is as targeted as you can possibly get!

That's complete BS! And Pure Greed!

sailorjwd




msg:3160357
 10:25 pm on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Anyone know of an AA chapter here in MD.

Adwords Anonymous that is.

I quit adwords yesterday.

I didn't last a full 24 hours before I turned one teeny weeny campaign back on.

I am powerless.

pdivi




msg:3160365
 10:49 pm on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

sailorjwd, I know exactly what you mean. Let's face it, Adwords is the fastest, easiest way to hit scale. G has the best management tool and gobs of traffic. On the campaign of mine that got hit (in April) it's taken me all this time to recoup maybe 70% of my traffic. I'm JUST starting to feel like I'm getting traction on efforts to recoup.

Boosting MSN & Overture spend was an obvious move, but couldn't get me all the way back. Where I'm getting the best result is working directly w/ publishers on CPM deals. Some publishers are just as anxious to diversify from G as I am. It's cumbersome, but I'm getting a much better ROI than with any PPC.

The big upside is that no single company can knock you completely off-balance.

I also consider how much time & energy I have spent fretting over Adwords during the past couple of years, and how much lift that energy would have given me were it spent finding alternatives. Maybe getting hit was the best thing to happen (long-term). Like Momma told me, sometimes the easiest option will end up costing you in the end.

Patience...the antidrug.

La_Valette




msg:3160992
 5:24 pm on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

It seems to me that if a keyword jumps from .10 to $10 that someone else must be bidding on it.

That's not the way it works at all dude.

[edited by: La_Valette at 5:24 pm (utc) on Nov. 18, 2006]

Wlauzon




msg:3161017
 6:04 pm on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

That's not the way it works at all dude.

Then how does it work, dude?

ronmcd




msg:3161063
 7:36 pm on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

See the replies after your last question! The so-called quality score, have you heard of it?

If your ad copy, landing page, etc, dont please googles AUTOMATED "quality" system they inflate your min cpc.

humblebeginnings




msg:3161099
 8:52 pm on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

It seems to me that if a keyword jumps from .10 to $10 that someone else must be bidding on it.


That's not the way it works at all dude.

And for those who still don't believe that the Adwords minimum bids have nothing to do with competitors bidding, just try this:

Make up a non-existing rubbish keyword that no one else is bidding on and then tell us what Google charges you for it... Voila.

I'll give you a few examples for my account.

sfddiugohiufbvoiuh = $10
ehtrhtrehrethre4et = $10
gpogreorgeoihtweou = $10

Come on Google, cut the crap and let us do business again!

rbacal




msg:3161135
 9:57 pm on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

sfddiugohiufbvoiuh = $10
ehtrhtrehrethre4et = $10
gpogreorgeoihtweou = $10

Come on Google, cut the crap and let us do business again!

This seems to me to be some of the best evidence that QS works the way a) google says it does, and b) the way it SHOULD work.

Clearly, meaningless keywords can't POSSIBLY be a)relevant to anything at all, and b) can't be relevant or of value to surfers.

Or am I missing something.

What I take from this is that if you have meaningless keywords, or meaningless (no value) sites, then, yes, you are going to get dinged, and discouraged from doing things that aren't valuable to anyone.

Come on, advertisers. Cut the crap and start providing value, meaningfulness and relevance to surfers and viewers, and THEN you will probably have lower bids.

rehabguy




msg:3161144
 10:22 pm on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Wlauzon,

It sounds like you need to read some of the other adwords forums to catch up on the whole Quality Score issue.

It doesn't much to do with what other people are willing to pay.

luke175




msg:3161149
 10:32 pm on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

and THEN you will probably have lower bids.

For all your preaching this is the most accurate thing you've said.

"PROBABLY"

Except in business "probably" can cost you everything.

sailorjwd




msg:3161152
 10:37 pm on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Odd thing happened on the way to quiting adwords.

I left one teeny campaign going (5000 keywords across 15 ad groups).

I'm noticing bids lowering - more keywords becoming active.

One thing I did was add my phone number in text on the landing page, about a week or so ago.

If that helped it would reallly piss me off since I have my email and phone number in graphics form on every page.

ember




msg:3161166
 10:52 pm on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

The jack up in prices has nothing to do with anyone else' bidding on the same keywords or with the keywords not being relevant. I have been doing this for six years. I understand targeting. The keywords for the site were as targeted and relevant and on the nose as they could possibly be. It did not matter. And if the keywords had no competition and we were bidding .04 for them, why even if someone else came along and bid $10 for them should we not still be able to run them in the second spot for .04?

Anyone who thinks Google has any reason other than GREED and arrogance to jack up prices is flat wrong. Once Google went public and started answering to stockholders, things changed. They became Corporate Google and it all became about money, plain and simple The little advertisers who helped them get where they are now became worthless to them.

rbacal




msg:3161230
 12:33 am on Nov 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

The little advertisers who helped them get where they are now became worthless to them.

Well, some little advertisers are being served just fine by adwords, so, could the issue be something specific to you or your sites or campaigns?

sailorjwd




msg:3161235
 12:41 am on Nov 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

"issue be something specific to you "

Consistently rude... statistically speaking.

xdude




msg:3161241
 12:51 am on Nov 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

sfddiugohiufbvoiuh = $10
ehtrhtrehrethre4et = $10
gpogreorgeoihtweou = $10

Come on Google, cut the crap and let us do business again!

Perhaps a more thorough test is to actually include these cryptic strings in the landing page for the keywords and watch for minimum bid change prior to manual review by Google. But whatever your result is, some zealous Google worshippers will come up with pseudo-logical explanation for it.

ember




msg:3161281
 2:30 am on Nov 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

If you are a little guy and doing just fine with Adwords, all I can say is just wait. We were doing quite fine for quite a long while, too, and then wham. You may be in for a surprise.

Syzygy




msg:3161289
 2:42 am on Nov 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

sfddiugohiufbvoiuh = $10
ehtrhtrehrethre4et = $10
gpogreorgeoihtweou = $10

That sounds familiar...

The "fideladeloopiedoo" experiment [webmasterworld.com]

Syzygy

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