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This 91 message thread spans 4 pages: < < 91 ( 1 [2] 3 4 > >     
Fixing Your Websites Quality Score
What I did to get my ads live again within one week
Coldrum

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 2:12 am on Jul 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi Guys,

I thought I'd post this to help some of you guys that are suffering from major increases in the minimum cpc's on Google.

About 4 months ago a similar thing happened to one of my websites and like you guys, I wasn't exactly happy with the consequences as about 70% of my keywords were now unreachable.

The minimum bids had increased from 7 - 10 cents to between $1-$20 per click. Life was about to change for the worse unless I got to work. Fast.

The first thing I did was get on the phone to my Google Rep. He was more than happy to help, though he didn't know much about why the bid prices had gone up, he informed me that there were changes made and he would investigate on my behalf.. After a few days he had investigated the problem and got feedback from engineers that my website had broken the following guidelines.

1. Not enought content.

There was only one opt-in email form and 1 page of text about why you should opt in, what you'll get and a few tidbits about privacy.

2. The website needed a complete privacy policy on a new page as what was there was not detailed enough.

3. There was no contact us page.

4. There were no external links to other related and useful webpages.

So instead of getting angry, I got to work. Pronto. I wasn't going to wait around till they decided they'll fix the problem(if they ever would)

So here is an outline of the steps I took to get me back to cheap clicks within 2 days.

1. I fixed all the problems outlined above. I added more content on different pages. I wrote out a completely detailed privacy policy. I added external links to useful, related websites. I added a contact page with our contact details completely specified.

I made these changes to the website and uploaded them immediately.
But I thought, there's no way that the 'robot' will put us back anytime soon so I continued to work.

2. I created a carbon copy of the website on a similar domain.

3. I uploaded this new website and blocked all search engine spiders from crawling it (to avoid the original sites ranking to drop)

4. I created a new adwords account based on this new domain. (widgets1.com) and copied all of the original ads across. Albeit, I made a few changes so that they wouldn't be identical. All new ads pointed only to the new website.

5. The ads went live and my bids stayed at 7c - 10c.

They finally fixed the problem after a month. Via a manual review and I was back in adwords with 7 to 10 cent bids. In fact I actually had both websites (widgets.com & widgets1.com) in the listings for a few days

I don't guarantee that it will work, but for a few bucks and a few hours work it's probably a good gamble. From what I understand you won't get your cheap clicks back unless:

1. You comply with the rules as mentioned above (maybe they've added more since last time)

2. You submit a support request and manually get removed from breaching quality score guidelines.

3. Main point. Don't argue with google about the guidelines (don't argue with me about the guidelines, there may be more or even less. Just get to work. Doing nothing will leave your website unchanged.

4. (Side point) New domains that obey the rules and can be used as a feeder for your original site can start getting you back your cheap clicks almost instantly.

Guys, I sincerely hope this information helps many of you get your websites back in the money.

 

deep_alley

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 11:44 am on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

And most importantly, is google judging you by the landing page, or the whole site? In other words do we have to change EVERY page on our site, or just the landing page and the first pages that link off of it?

Anyone?

kris_winter

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 12:23 pm on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

I get it, to save money you gotta write some junk / content for your website that didnt originally need to be there.

leverageteam

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 2:37 pm on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi,

In order to get your site reviewed again, who is the best person to speak to? Even though I spend over $100K, I don't have a dedicated rep (at least one that I know of).

Dave

running scared

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 3:18 pm on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

And most importantly, is google judging you by the landing page, or the whole site?

Google's landing page guidelines indicate that they look at the site as well as the landing page in question.

But ... if they apply the same criteria to AdWords landing pages and pages in the SERPs, the only way to get a page into AdWords would be to create a page that would end up at the top of the SERPs anyway? Wouldn't that eventually kill AdWords?

IMHO they are doing there best to make AdWords into a second algorithmic search but one that focuses on commercial sites - try to picture a sort of PPC/paid inclusion hybrid. The main SERPs as we know them will become even more non-commercial in nature over time.

sailorjwd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 1:53 am on Jul 23, 2006 (gmt 0)

I added a privacy policy page few days ago to make my landing page more adwords friendly.

Now I'm #40 in the SERPs for a particular programming language + 'privacy policy' (188 mil results)

I wish adwords were so easy.

femkeshe

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 4:42 pm on Jul 23, 2006 (gmt 0)

maybe to simple a thought but...

Your rep is the one who answers you when you ask a question.
The first time you ask one you used the contact form, right?

The one who answered that time is the one who I bombed to be my rep. Seems to work with me.

If you reply to his e-mail instead of using the contact form life is a lot easier and faster. Through the contact us form doesnt work.

Greetings

aleksl



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 2:46 pm on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

I just got email from G$$gle that they reviewed our eCommerce store, and that "their original review was correct, that qality of landing pages was very poor...sites that don't include useful content, products and/or services for internet users are often difficult to advertise...According to our review, your site is a poor quality page and will continue to cause higher minimum bid requirements for you, and potentially low return on your investment. Therefore, AdWords may not be the online advertising program for your website or business." - not exactly direct quote, but something close to what have been told.

Let's see...site is a pure eCommerce, with completely hand-written unique content, with advertising leading to each product's page with picture(s), at least a screen of product describtion, details, etc. and that converts at 3%, that has a separate content-only section that add 25% to site pages. That is now on Yahoo! and MSN in the top-20 for a fairly competitive niche, and should be on G$$gle if THE MAIN PAGE was IN THE FREAKIN' INDEX.

F.Y. too, G$$gle.

I should add to that that we have a competitive design (can't say it is better than top sites, but certainly in top-20), we have worked on navigation and user interface, etc. We also have user testimonials about our site and product - I guess none of those are of any value to G$$gle, it is not part of the "Quality Score", not as far as I can tell.

rbacal



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 3:11 pm on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

We also have user testimonials about our site and product - I guess none of those are of any value to G$$gle, it is not part of the "Quality Score", not as far as I can tell.

Question that might help.

Does your site offer something UNIQUE to the visitor that they cannot easily get or find on other sites?

That seems to be part of what is considered in manual reviews. It's actually a little weird because this is reminding me a bit of how DMOZ says they work.

aleksl



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 3:47 pm on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

rbacal, sure it does. a combination of products is not found on any other site. a high quality, hand-picked lines of products, not the "dump Amazon's database over here"-type. These are not products like "brand A camera" (just example, not actual product) that everyone sells, these are products that are sold by a hand-full of suppliers. We even have 800- number with a niche-knowledgeable staff.

But let me show you the "Quality Score" crap that G$$gle is mumbling about. I just went through 40 websites that advertise on G$$gle for our main KW, just to check "Quality". So, out of 40:

13 are eCommerce stores that sell same or similar products.
8 are MFA sites
4 professional contractors that work (install, repair) on widgets in our niche
4 large and well-known shopping sites (you all know them)
2 are wholesalers
2 are manufacturers who sell direct
2 sites that I didn't understand in my 15 seconds looking at them, made-in-1995-with-ugly-colors-and-frontpage type of sites
2 sites that sell products in parallel niches
2 "article sites" - basically MFA sites
1 is a web ring

So here's your quality, 25% are MFA, and 12% are not even in the niche. Yet, G$$gle suggest that sites in the niche would "go advertise somewhere else".

Green_Grass

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 4:01 pm on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

Seems there is no hope for me..then.. This is very depressing. Just shows it is a money grab primarily or a totally random thing or the reviewers are nuts or we are missing something....


Green_Grass

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 4:02 pm on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

so there is no possibility to improve a quality score.. except to change the domain name and wait for the next Quality Update to hit...

rbacal



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 4:08 pm on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

So here's your quality, 25% are MFA, and 12% are not even in the niche. Yet, G$$gle suggest that sites in the niche would "go advertise somewhere else".

Looking at other sites is a waste of time. If you want to complain, your actions are going to be different than if you want to succeed with this.

It's your business and your time, so it's completely up to you.

As for the quality of YOUR site (which is the issue, rather than the quality of everyone else's sites), it is hard to tell what google is looking for. The problem is that if there are a number of sites selling exactly the same items, with only slight variations in what they offer the visitor, google seems to be deciding that they simply don't need similar or identical information or features on dozens of sites.

Kind of like a shopping mall that contractually restricts the number of identical or similar businesses on their premises.

I have no idea if yours is caught in this.

aleksl



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 4:34 pm on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

rbacal: The problem is that if there are a number of sites selling exactly the same items, with only slight variations in what they offer the visitor, google seems to be deciding that they simply don't need similar or identical information or features on dozens of sites.

I can see how this can be a plausible explanation. If that's the case it is not "improve your quality score", but rather "get a higher score than other sites". More reasons to think outside the G-box :)


Green_grass: so there is no possibility to improve a quality score

Yes, there is. think big. short-term, find other sources of traffic. find other ways to get traffic from G$$gle - it is after all algorythmic and therefore FULL OF HOLES just like a swiss cheese.

It's ironic how "organize world information" turned into "force webmasters to comply with our shortsited guidelines, now or never".

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 4:38 pm on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

You might consider getting a third party (completely outside your field, not involved with either your business nor Google) opinion of your site. It's hard to be objective about our own sites, particularly if we've put a lot of work into it. Every now and then I find it useful to request another pair (or several pairs) of eyeballs to just kind of look things over and see if there's anything unnecessarily difficult, or that I've forgotten, or some other weird little thing that only another perspective might possibly ferret out.

(This only works if one doesn't jump down their throats if they suggest something be done differently)

rbacal



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 5:38 pm on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

Really good suggestions in the last two posts.

It's just my opinion, but google's changes are exposing weaknesses in some business models that were there all the time.

It may signal the beginning of a long term trend that ends up rewarding people who are both really good business people, and recognize good opportunites.

Who knows. It may not be enough now to simply be opportunists and be able to throw up web sites.

Maybe the Internet market place will start to mature further, and you'll need to provide a unique and creative value proposition to earn.

The 99-2000 crash was the revolution in the industry that shook out all the bad business models. Maybe we can "evolve", now without the complete utter collapse that happened then.

Small consolation for those with unsustainable business models, though.

jadebox

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 2:45 pm on Jul 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

rbacal: The problem is that if there are a number of sites selling exactly the same items, with only slight variations in what they offer the visitor, google seems to be deciding that they simply don't need similar or identical information or features on dozens of sites.

It sounds as if they only want you to be able to advertise pages that would/should be at the top of the SERPs anyway. In that case, what's the point of AdWords and the whole system of bidding on keywords?

-- Roger

aeiouy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 7:14 pm on Jul 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

Since on-page content is only a portion of what is takes to get top rankings in Google, that is not neceesarily true. Quality sites with lower rankings due to links and other factors could still make good use of the ppc model to get high exposure.

jadebox

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 7:59 pm on Jul 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

Since on-page content is only a portion of what is takes to get top rankings in Google, that is not neceesarily true.

That's why I said "would/should" instead of just "would."

I've had relevant keywords pointing to a good quality landing page suddenly get a $10 minimum bid. I don't think it had anything to do with the "quality" of the landing page. Google's algorithm just decided, for some reason, that the keywords weren't good for them.

I suspect that Google is trying to get rid of low-cost keywords that link to irrelevant sites (i.e. the ridiculous eBay ads). But the algorithm is simply not working correctly.

-- Roger

egurr

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 8:28 pm on Jul 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

This is an intersting observation and I haven't completely validated it yet but I'm going to research further. I think Google is on the right track, for the wrong reason for this landing score.
Just finished market research with a focus group. We found some scan ads, many do not. Some of those that did were drawn to the sponsored search listing when a brand name was listed in the heading.
So Google may see good landing pages performing well and making the mistake of thinking it's the landing page, when in reality it has more to do with the eye being attracted by a familiar name. A familiar or brand name is likely to have a better and of course more relevant landing page.
Am I stating the obvious?

maherphil

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 10:31 pm on Jul 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

This is such crap! I talked to Google engineers for half a day at adtech and none of them could tell me anything but platitudes and fluff like, 'make the user experience good' about how to really get your quality score up. I did what this thread said to do on multiple landing pages, sitewide and still nothing.

I'm calling out shananigans on Google! You heard it here first!

How come ebay and amazon and shopping.com can bid on any keyword they want and send you to some bogus search that isn't even relavent...Its a load of crap!

dubnoir

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 11:22 pm on Jul 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

I got my landing pages reviewed as well, and now they cite that this:

"Our Landing Page Quality Specialists had a look at your website and found that the major focus of your site is to display AdWords ads alongside the content on your page. Per our new Landing Page Quality criteria these websites have a low Quality Score. "

hmm.... I guess I cant "display Adwords ads alongside the content." go figure. is there any other way I can display Adsense?

I would love to post my URL here, but I cant. what I can tell you that my pages are 100% unique, hand written, nothing but good content, IMO.

I had 3 ads on that page, the total number of words on the page is 810 EXCLUDING the navigaion. most of the landing pages are PR4.

given that a human reviewer thinks that my site is MFA (cant be futher from the truth!) no wonder the G$$gle QS bot is so faulty.

anyone here like to see my URL, please PM me and I will send it to you.

EDIT: actually, see my profile homepage here to see the URL...

rbacal



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 12:14 am on Jul 28, 2006 (gmt 0)


I got my landing pages reviewed as well, and now they cite that this

If I had anything negative to say, I'd have asked the owner if it was ok to post comments publicly. I'm real tough on sites, but I don't get the comments you received. Of course, I don't know what ad text you used, and I don't know which landing pages so there may be problems there.

The site passes the sniff test, is nicely designed, and easy to navigate. I have a couple of suggestions (which may not help at all), and a speculation. Hope something helps.

1) Do a privacy policy both in html and machine readable format (xml) and link to it from all pages.
2) Identify your business name, business address and other contact information and have it on your pages. For me this is a fairly major issue regarding user experience generally. DOn't know if google cares.

The speculation? I'm betting that because you provide free services, and because you have those google ads, which appear to be your sole income, they "might" think this is an arbitrage situation (I wonder the same thing).

It does look like that's what you are doing, but cripee, you have good stuff there, so even if you are earning money that way, where's the problem? I don't see it.

The adsense ads are nicely set up, too. They aren't in the visitor's face at all, and the look like they are an integral part of the site design, and NOT setup to trick people into clicking or trap them.

Go figure.

dubnoir

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 12:38 am on Jul 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

rbacal,
thank you for your comments and suggestions. highly appreciated.

>>>If I had anything negative to say, I'd have asked the owner if it was ok to post comments publicly.

unsure what you mean by that statement.

>>>1) Do a privacy policy both in html and machine readable format (xml) and link to it from all pages.

the site does not collect any data, but I guess, I can try this and see what happens. cant hurt.

>>>2) Identify your business name, business address and other contact information and have it on your pages. For me this is a fairly major issue regarding user experience generally. DOn't know if google cares.

there really is no business name for this site. Im an individual and I dont see why I should disclose my name and address for a site like this... but, I shall try this as well.

>>>The speculation? I'm betting that because you provide free services, and because you have those google ads, which appear to be your sole income, they "might" think this is an arbitrage situation (I wonder the same thing).

well, I can tell you that this site is far from being an "arbitrage," as the CRT would never be high enough to make it so. if anything, when I look what the current top placements are for my keywords (which were 100% on point and relevant - very obvious), I see plenty of sites that display nothing but ads - no content, no navigation, just plain ads. I assure you that these sites are not paying $10 / click for these keywords. yet, somehow, they have better quality score than mine. go figure.

EDIT: just checked - in fact the site was losing money (not much, but did) on adwords and since G can see how much I spend and make, they surely can not say that this is a form of "arbitrage."

rbacal



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 12:56 am on Jul 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

What I meant (and I didn't say it well) was that I didn't have any real criticisms of the site, but if I did, I'd have asked you privately if it was ok to post them publicly. It would have been the right thing to do, but I didn't find anything negative.

well, I can tell you that this site is far from being an "arbitrage," as the CRT would never be high enough to make it so. if anything, when I look what the current top placements are for my keywords (which were 100% on point and relevant - very obvious), I see plenty of sites that display nothing but ads - no content, no navigation, just plain ads. I assure you that these sites are not paying $10 / click for these keywords. yet, somehow, they have better quality score than mine. go figure.

Keep in mind that what it IS doesn't matter -- what matters is HOW IT APPEARS. People really need to stop looking at their sites from their own viewpoints and start getting other input (I have people I rely on both who are designers and regular people to vette some of my sites).

I checked some of the remaining ads for loan calculators on the google search page, and you ain't kiddin that it's just plain terrible.

But really, man, you need to keep in mind that comparing your site to others is pointless, and means nothing AT THIS STAGE. It's a new algo, it will get tweaked, and let's all hope that they get rid of the true junk, and your prices come down.

There may be other reasons that aren't obviously visible from looking at your pages that are problematic, but it's hard to know where to even start looking. Do you own other sites linked to this one? Are they all of good quality from a human point of view? Is the code for your calculators used on dozens of other sites? Is the content on your site absolutely unique?

Do you own a poodle?

BaseVinyl

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 1:00 am on Jul 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

WOW!...this is a whole other world!

dubnoir

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 1:14 am on Jul 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

rbacal,

>>>>Keep in mind that what it IS doesn't matter -- what matters is HOW IT APPEARS. People really need to stop looking at their sites from their own viewpoints and start getting other input (I have people I rely on both who are designers and regular people to vette some of my sites).

while I understand what you are saying here, to Google it should be more important what IT IS, rather then HOW IT APPEARS.

>>>>I checked some of the remaining ads for loan calculators on the google search page, and you ain't kiddin that it's just plain terrible.

glad that you see the same thing. pure junk, yet, this "appears" to them to be fine. I guess, I should just make a page that contains pure ads. obviously, that would be of better "quality."

>>>>But really, man, you need to keep in mind that comparing your site to others is pointless, and means nothing AT THIS STAGE. It's a new algo, it will get tweaked, and let's all hope that they get rid of the true junk, and your prices come down.

well, while I can excuse the algo being faulty (hence they have a manual review team), I can not excuse the humans that reviewed the site. I also did point out to them the sites that have nothing but ads on them, and these sites simply remain in top positions. no excuses there.

>>>>There may be other reasons that aren't obviously visible from looking at your pages that are problematic, but it's hard to know where to even start looking. Do you own other sites linked to this one? Are they all of good quality from a human point of view? Is the code for your calculators used on dozens of other sites? Is the content on your site absolutely unique?

my site is 100% unique. the content, the calcs, the graphics, the code, the whole d*mn thing - I hand made them all - you will not find them anywhere else. as for linking, I have little control over who/from where links to me. actually, the point of using adwords was in hope to get some links - thinking that people will like the site. the site is PR5, fully indexed, so I dont see why that would be a problem.

all in all, this only discouraged any further attempt in making the best site on a certain topic ever again. if this is the reward one gets, we should just make junk pages consisting of 100% ads. it seems to work for others.

>>>Do you own a poodle?

I should send one to the (f)Adwords team - maybe that will help.... :)

rbacal



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 3:16 am on Jul 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

all in all, this only discouraged any further attempt in making the best site on a certain topic ever again. if this is the reward one gets, we should just make junk pages consisting of 100% ads. it seems to work for others.

I give up.

WallyBob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3016719 posted 6:31 am on Jul 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

The last few posts have been interesting.

I went through the manual review process and was told that my site "had been verified to have a low quality score". In other words - yes, our algo was right and you offer the user a poor experience. After emailing back and forth on the matter a couple of points became clear:

  • Google does look at where your income comes from
  • If you seem to direct traffic to ads or affiliate links you likely will be considered low quality

    I am an affiliate it's true (hangs head in shame) but I offer my users 6 times more content on the subject than the direct company does. When I pressed the rep as to whether my content was low quality (it's all original) or if it was considered low quality because I have an affiliate link on most pages the answer that came back was essentially, "you do seem to have good content once we look at it, but this seems to be your only source of income. There is a tension that exists between the business model of affiliate links and AdSense ads and a high-quality user experience. (This is not a direct quote - please don't edit me - hehe)

    While I won't argue that many adsense/affilate sites offer a lousy experience Google seems to be overly critical of affiliate links and adsense ads. Basically Google has made a concious decision that if you are going to be a successful affiliate you better get your traffic from organic search or other advertising venues. I was "gently" encouraged that my business and adwords advertising probably weren't a good fit. Google can do as they wish with thier services but I wish I was being judged on the content my site offers - not pre-judged on the fact that I direct users to a relevant service to the niche that I cover.

  • rbacal



     
    Msg#: 3016719 posted 2:39 pm on Jul 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

    while I understand what you are saying here, to Google it should be more important what IT IS, rather then HOW IT APPEARS.

    Uh.Huh.

    Well, here's what IT IS! You have a site registered that is set up deliberately to hide your ownership. Funny you didn't mention that fact here.

    Question: (and you can bet google considers it) Why would a legitimate business person advertising on adwords deliberately try to conceal his or her identity?

    Question: How come this person's site owner conceals his identity in the same way, using the same companies and services that almost ALL blatant MFA's do?

    Question: Why should google want to do business with a person who feels the need to hide site ownership?

    I KNEW something had a funny scent from your posts. I'm betting there's more to be found, and that google found it.

    wmuser

    WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



     
    Msg#: 3016719 posted 3:13 pm on Jul 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

    Coldrum thanks for sharing

    aleksl



     
    Msg#: 3016719 posted 3:26 pm on Jul 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

    You have a site registered that is set up deliberately to hide your ownership...Why would a legitimate business person advertising on adwords deliberately try to conceal his or her identity?

    Absolutely ridiculous assumption. If this is what they go by, they need to have their priorities examined.

    So..what you are trying to say that if you have a privacy turned on on a domain, this is "low quality"? Absolute nonesense, especially since Alexa.com now publicly lists your other sites. We own sites in several completely different niches, as many other companies do. Do you want our B2B users see that we also sell pancakes? That would look unprofessional - to say the least.

    If domain owner info is what G$$gle uses to judge "quality" - it is nonsense.

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