homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.242.241.20
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Pubcon Platinum Sponsor 2014
Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdSense
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: incrediBILL & jatar k & martinibuster

Google AdSense Forum

    
Impact of remarketing on AdSense earnings
avalon37

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 9:11 pm on Mar 6, 2013 (gmt 0)

Has this been discussed before? With the growth of remarketing, often the ads on the publisher site are populated from the visitors previously frequented sites. In essence, making the publishers ads less contextually relevant. I wonder how this has affected publisher earnings.

 

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 9:22 pm on Mar 6, 2013 (gmt 0)

On the advertiser side, we pay pretty well for remarketing ads, so that should actually work out for the publisher.

However, a lot of advertisers don't know how to do it right (impression caps are there for a reason) and then you get the creepy stalker ad syndrome, and that's not so great.

Chapman

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 9:25 pm on Mar 6, 2013 (gmt 0)

Do I know "remarketing ads" as interest based or... are they different?

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 11:30 am on Mar 7, 2013 (gmt 0)

Yes, they're different (though they may be considered a subset, I dunno) Remarketing or retargeting ads are when you visit a website, and then immediately see ads for that website on other sites as you bop around the web. They set a cookie in order to show you those ads. You can set them to fire after a user completes some action (visits a particular page, fills out a form, puts something in his shopping cart and doesn't finish the purchase, etc)

Str82u



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 12:45 pm on Mar 7, 2013 (gmt 0)

When we get one of those "fat" clicks, the ones when you actually hear the sound "cha-ching", we know it's not from one of the regular advertisers in our niche. The regular advertisers are very consistent.

It works for the sites I frequent because those ads may be set to offer discount and after discount, I've personally gotten half off products through ads not related to the content of the site I was on, for that matter, they wouldn't get the clicks they do if the ads weren't targeting me.

Chapman

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 12:48 pm on Mar 7, 2013 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the insight Meg!

internetheaven

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 3:03 pm on Mar 7, 2013 (gmt 0)

Has this been discussed before? With the growth of remarketing, often the ads on the publisher site are populated from the visitors previously frequented sites. In essence, making the publishers ads less contextually relevant. I wonder how this has affected publisher earnings.


It's awful! And you CAN'T opt out.

I selected non-interest based ads in my Adsense admin area over 3 weeks ago. Users (and me when I'm on my sites) still see adverts for other websites they've visited recently.

Leosghost



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 3:35 pm on Mar 7, 2013 (gmt 0)

It's awful! And you CAN'T opt out.

I selected non-interest based ads in my Adsense admin area over 3 weeks ago. Users (and me when I'm on my sites) still see adverts for other websites they've visited recently.


I've kept saying that ever since it was confirmed to me in a thread here by an old adsense advisor, when it first appeared as an option in the admin panel..( you can't opt out of interest ads being shown on your own sites..see below* ) some people just don't want to believe it..

Google worded it just carefully enough to fool them at first read..and even when confirmed by Google ( because I asked for "clarification" of their vague wording ) that you can't opt out of having interest ads being shown on your site ( *but you can "opt out" of having the content and subject matter of your site used to influence what visitors see on other sites running adsense..that is what you are "opting out of" ) some people still prefer to be fooled..

Or to believe that the adsense they see on their sites is what others are seeing..

"my cat is black, my neighbor's cat is black, my mother's cat is black, therefore all cats, even the ones I cannot see, are black"..

I know the sites of some people on here..I also know that some of them have "opted out" of showing interest based ( or remarketing )..In some cases ( but not all cases ) I know this because I have ( they have given for various reasons ) access to their adsense admin panels..

I still see ads on their** sites based upon my personal "interest based" surfing..or remarketing ( I recently purchased cards from vistaprint 20% of all ads on any site I see are now for vistaprint, which is damn stupid of them, because they are also emailing me constantly with their offers )..as long as the ad format(s) on the adsense sites corresponds to one that vistaprint use for their adwords..

**I also see them on mine, and I had it switched off from day 1..( even when it was confirmed by ASA that it did not do what it said on the tin.. I left it as was, just in case G ever decided to get "ethical" )..I'm not holding my breath in anticipation ..

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 4:54 pm on Mar 7, 2013 (gmt 0)

They're not going away because the advertisers want them (even ad networks other than Google use them) and if Facebook ever decides to make its own ad network, you're gonna see em to the nth degree.

Contextual ads will always be around to some degree, but personalized, interest based and retargeting ads are the future. If you're gonna do AdSense, you're gonna see em.

(I don't think the retargeting ads count under the interest based option in our consoles anyway. it's really a different thing)

jpch



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 5:30 pm on Mar 7, 2013 (gmt 0)

even ad networks other than Google use them


Yup...Like Criteo. If you have 3rd Party Networks enabled you could potentially reduce the number of these ads that are shown by blocking the ad networks that use them. Wouldn't be 100% effective but figure I'd mention it for those looking for at least a partial solution.

Chapman

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 10:50 pm on Mar 7, 2013 (gmt 0)

I find all the above comments to be quite enlightening, however, my results after disabling "Interest-based Ads" via the control panel appear to be different than what others have described.

It's true that some IBAs continue to be shown on my sites but the number is significantly lower. Targeting type reports, after disabling IBAs, do show that "something" in that category is still being shown but the numbers are 20% of when they're enabled - sometimes even as low as 10%.

An additional oddity I see is that the click value of the IBAs still being shown while they are disabled is just about double of that when they are enabled.

There is a whole lot of voodoo connected to that control panel option, I believe, but having it switched off is working for me!

Leosghost



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 11:32 pm on Mar 7, 2013 (gmt 0)

I think you'll find that how many IBAs you get depends on available ad inventory at any one precise time ( belly fat ads et al are "filler" when nothing else is outbidding them )..and also how specific/precise your site content is ( if it is very specific/precise it will tend to get a higher proportion of site content based ads ..but again, only if they are bidding higher than the others at that time..

Bear in mind also that lawyers in the LA area will have probably not wished to have their ads appear to me in France ..or Billy Joe in Kentucky..( so they won't ) so unless your visitor is from LA, something else has to take their place, even if your site is about LA lawyers..and so on ) ..some sites get a lot more IBAs than others, especially if their content is unfocused , and sometimes the ads are entirely Geo targeted..

Which is why I usually see at least two "expat investment", per page, ads on the BBC..it is a UK based site, and my browser prefs are English, but my IP shows me to be in France ..so G figures ( rightly ) that I'm probably "ex-pat"..and "ex-pat" investment ads pay very well for the publisher..as do all financial service lead ads..

Tangential..I visited ( and ordered from ) Vistaprint directly without passing through "G search"..it was as a result of seeing an offer on French TV..

But their ads are still following me..

So how would G know that I was "interested" ? ( rhetorical question ;)

I have a fixed IP..

Vistaprint runs Ganalytics..

So G knows what I looked at ..how many pages, how long, what sequence, and that I went through the checkout..

So..unless G can read 3rd party cookies..

They are IBAing [sic?] me ..or to be more exact "re-targeting" me based on what they learned from their end of Ganalytics..and the cookies that they are dropping me with it..

Now.. in the above case the site I visited/purchased from gains by G following me with their ads using info from Ganalytics..and G's own cookies..

But if I visit your "informational site"..say it is about DIY ( and you run Ganalytics ) and then I visit another "informational site"..say it too, is about DIY..( and it too runs Ganalytics ) and then I go on to visit a 3rd "informational site"..say it too, is about DIY ..( and it too runs Ganalytics )..( see where I'm going ;)..G now has a pretty good idea that I'm interested in DIY..

So the next site I visit ( or some of the sites I visit over the next 24 hrs , 30 days, year or even more* etc ) will be showing me DIY ads..even if they are about "rock climbing", "car sales" or "medical" sites..

* I still get IBAs shown me on other peoples sites based upon searches and site visits ( and on which I made no purchases ) that I did over 4 years ago..less often than those related to more recent surfing..but they do still try to see if they can rekindle an interest..

Now ..remember all of G's other ad delivery platforms, "double-click" etc, drop cookies on you/me ..which G reads ..and decides which ads to send you/me..whichever adsense site we are on at the time..

Like netmeg said..IBAs are not going to go away..and as jpch also said, G are not the only ones using them..but they do have a major advantage and data gathering reach via Ganalytics over the other ad networks..it is free to you..but it is very very much more beneficial to them..which is why they "give it away"..for now..

IBAs are now a fact of life..and they are definitely good for G's bottom line..if your site is tightly focused on a specific subject, they may not be so good for yours..if it is less focused or "thinner"..you may well do OK or well from them ( ehow is a good example of who makes money via IBAs)..and you don't have to spend a great deal of time to make sites of a high quality about subjects that you know about..you can go the ehow route..as many do..or scrape..as many do..or be ultra thin and unfocused..as many are..

read "source code" of pages that you visit, you'll be amazed / horrified at just how the vast majority of sites worldwide now run Ganalytics, all reporting back to G, then add in all those that run adsense and or doubleclick etc, again all reporting back to G about what everyone who visits does, looks at and how long etc..Oh yeah..and the G+ buttons ..like on WebmasterWorld..which report your IP direct to G for every page that you load which has them..and each time you post they reload, direct from G, with your IP..so they know if they want to crunch the numbers ( and they can "crunch numbers" )..who posted what..and from what IP, and what else you look at anywhere, any site, any search, any time, all of it ;) and if you run adsense, who you are..

buckworks

WebmasterWorld Administrator buckworks us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 12:44 am on Mar 8, 2013 (gmt 0)

AdWords remarketing by advertisers has nothing to do with Google Analytics; it requires special code snippets obtained from Google AdWords.

For site owners to remarket to you, they must actively create and retrieve code snippets from AdWords, actively place the snippets on one or more pages within their site, and actively designate ads to be shown to you sometime later.

Remarketing (retargeting) snippets can be mixed and matched to design a wide variety of followup ad campaigns.

When done skillfully, remarketing campaigns convert well, so advertisers are willing to bid higher for those impressions than in the average AdWords campaign ... maybe a little, maybe a lot.

As Netmeg alluded to earlier, skillful remarketing requires setting impression caps to keep the followup ads from being overdone. A smart advertiser will aim for enough impressions to create an occasional courteous reminder, without coming anywhere near "stalk the user".

Leosghost



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 12:59 am on Mar 8, 2013 (gmt 0)

So..how would they re-market to me ..if I didn't get to their site via adwords or SERPS..

Or are you saying that the "code snippets*" are placed before one first visits a site, ( lying in wait to tag me** so to speak ) and that they are talking home to G after my visit to the site..

*vague term..care to elaborate ..javascript..something that site owner places that talks to G..see below

**nother way to say .."cookie dropper"..as it must signal my IP to G , or how would G know whose IP to re-target to..( frequency and type of re-marketing/re-targeting being incidental to the phoning home of my IP relative to what I did on any site, whether any purchases were made or not, in many cases I'm "stalked" by sites that I have not purchased from )

Not to mention..what wireshark tells me is going on when I hit pages ( over 90% of the web ) which are running Ganalytics..

Not to say that if I ( or any of us ) were G ..that I ( or any of us ) would necessarily do things very different..but I would like to think that I might ;) neither does it make me believe it, when they say that they don't use data gathered from Ganalytics ..

When done skillfully, remarketing campaigns convert well, so advertisers are willing to bid higher for those impressions than in the average AdWords campaign ... maybe a little, maybe a lot.

As Netmeg alluded to earlier, skillful remarketing requires setting impression caps to keep the followup ads from being overdone. A smart advertiser will aim for enough impressions to create an occasional courteous reminder, without coming anywhere near "stalk the user".


So few seem to get the "don't burn money for nothing" , don't "stalk" the visitor or even "don't antagonise the past paying customer" part right..

But presumably G would rather that they didn't get "it right"..they spend more when they don't..many business don't know when to stop throwing money ..and the old "which 50% of their adspend actually works" still appears to escape many..

To the profit of those who do know how to track ROI..

But a publishers site stalking me with ads for cards..when the advertiser should realise that when I need more I'll log into my account ( and bypass the ads ) and order more..isn't good for the publisher..or the advertiser..only G comes out a winner..

Suits some items and services better than others..

Leosghost



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 1:29 am on Mar 8, 2013 (gmt 0)

I should also say that I get a lot of IBAs after visiting my competition's sites ..( never having purchased from them and not intending purchasing ) just seeing what they are up to..( have they copied my stuff etc, a lot of which goes on in one of my niches )..they then follow me around for months or even longer ..very very frequently..many times per day..

I know how much the ads cost for the items.."high ticket specialist/luxury goods"..there are only a relatively small number of us are actually manufacturing these items under our own brands..

Like most "luxury" items they actually have very high multiple profit margins..if one has no "middle men"..

The actual manufacturers don't run adsense much at all..only a couple of US companies who have their "brands" made s OEM in Asia..and who also sell through resellers and resellers of resellers, and so on..as many as 8 middlemen in the line in some cases..

So when I see an "end seller" or "online retailer" who is pushing items via re-targetting or IBAs at me ( that they are last in the line of 8 from the OEM from )..I know that they are paying very high money for doing so..and I didn't make a purchase from them..so the publisher has no chance of a click from me..

And if I was already a customer of theirs..and they were "reminding me".via re-targeting..their email list could do it so much better..and wouldn't cost them anything..

On an item costing say $350.00-$500.00 they ( even as an eighth in line retailer ) are making a gross profit of $100.00-$125.00 ( a white label affiliate would be making a gross of around 30% of "sticker"..this "niche" has a lot of "white label" aff' sites..who buy their own adwords..( most of them are hosted on the same servers as the "parent", particularly in the European* part of this "niche" ) and re-target or launch IBAs ) )..Manufacturers ( our ) cost is around $35.00-$50.00..

Adwords for the items is already costly..paying more to follow someone who did not purchase..is not IMO the best way to use their adspend..even if the margins can support it ( although I'm happy to watch them do it ;)..and is a waste of space for the publisher..

* The US has less "middlemen" ..but still only a small number of manufacturers, who supply many others, but at lower markups than is customary in Europe..

buckworks

WebmasterWorld Administrator buckworks us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 2:24 am on Mar 8, 2013 (gmt 0)

are you saying that the "code snippets*" are placed before one first visits a site, ( lying in wait to tag me** so to speak ) and that they are talking home to G after my visit to the site


Yup, that's a pretty good summary of AdWords remarketing.

If it's done stupidly, it creates annoyance. If it's done well, it can create some of the best-converting traffic available anywhere.

paying more to follow someone who did not purchase..is not IMO the best way to use their adspend


Au contraire, it can be a very productive way to use their ad spend.

who is pushing items via re-targetting or IBAs at me


The advertiser has very little control over IBAs. We can choose to have our ads shown to certain "audiences" but that's as far as it goes.

Remarketing campaigns are set up by individual advertisers, but interest-based ads are decided by Google.

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4551871 posted 4:36 am on Mar 8, 2013 (gmt 0)

Remarketing campaigns are set up by individual advertisers, but interest-based ads are decided by Google.


Thanks, I should have said that in the beginning.

Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdSense
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved