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This 58 message thread spans 2 pages: 58 ( [1] 2 > >     
What to do When a Competitor Tries to Get you Banned from AdSense?
jost




msg:4497361
 2:36 pm on Sep 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Its hard to prove 100%, but im pretty certain at this point there is a coordinated effort to get my portfolio of sites banned from adsense.

Sudden, aggressive reporting of content "as adult", when its not, aligned with a click bombing campaign, then my sites were DOS attacked, and now im even getting warnings from google adsense that I have 3 days to make changes on a site that has NEVER RUN ADSENSE.

Has google lost its fricken mind?

There is no way to report this "pattern" to google, so I fear they may actually get me banned somehow with this multifaceted attack.

Seems ive grown too big and am on a lot of peoples radar now. Im beating more and more competition, and they are trying to shut me down instead of beating me on merit.

What would you do? I wish I could talk to someone at google so they dont see this as separate events.
I figure, if you get enough warnings within a small timespan they will just ban your entire account.

How can you ever get really big, if the bigger you get, the frequency of warnings go up, which leads to banishment?

My sites are 10X more squeaky clean than my competitors.

Im tempted to just start reporting the hell out of all the porn on my competitor sites daily. They are really really in violation of google TOS, and I bet one of them is doing this to me.

What would you do?

(im currently setting up direct advertising, and getting rid of google altogether. Their business model is completely flawed because it allows you to get banned so easily for no good reason)

 

netmeg




msg:4497377
 3:49 pm on Sep 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

I would take advantage of the new support options.

[webmasterworld.com...]

But ultimately, know that if someone really wants to take you out, Google will protect the advertisers before they protect the publishers.

jost




msg:4497462
 6:21 pm on Sep 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

"Google will protect the advertisers before they protect the publishers. "

Exactly, which makes me believe its only a matter of time.
This is a numbers game. If someone has a large site, and you just keep filing BS reports about adult content, sooner or later they will get lucky, and hit a google employee having a real bad day, and BAM, youre business is gone.

Googles model seems horribly flawed in this sense, and is wide open for serious abuse.

jimbeetle




msg:4497470
 6:49 pm on Sep 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

So, are you going to take advantage of the new AdSense support options?

netmeg




msg:4497501
 8:46 pm on Sep 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

That's not a Google flaw; any business can have reputation issues (online or offline) if someone is bound and determined to dig them under, even if they're pure as the driven snow.

Use the support options, and put your backup monetization plans together. That way your model will have a measure of protection.

jpch




msg:4497562
 11:43 pm on Sep 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

There is no way to report this "pattern" to google, so I fear they may actually get me banned somehow with this multifaceted attack.


Pardon my ignorance on this as it's been several years since I got a warning from Google but couldn't you just reply to the warning they sent you? I'm assuming they notified you of all these issues via email? If not, how do you know someone is reporting your content as adult?

AdTrafficQuality




msg:4497603
 4:44 am on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Hi jost -

I would take advantage of some of the tools available through your AdSense account to try and isolate where you feel these issues are coming from. Maybe you have already, but I'm unsure from the information provided in this thread.

We have provided an article at [support.google.com...] that describes ways to segment traffic. This might shed some light as to where users are coming from and which ad units are affected. Hopefully this can help you isolate any issues and take action.

Hope that helps!

John

fathom




msg:4497665
 9:55 am on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Its hard to prove 100%


It also important to note your own history and strategy design.

You appear to have the same problem(s) since you started posting here (3 years ago... reviewing your post history).

I'm not privy to you data but maybe your strategy is flawed and not the competition.

You can certainly prove anything impression/click oriented with your own log files... which begs the question - why are you still guessing?

If you have doubts... get a log file analyzer to identify reoccurring patterns.

r4bet




msg:4497681
 10:38 am on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Hi jost -

I would take advantage of some of the tools available through your AdSense account to try and isolate where you feel these issues are coming from. Maybe you have already, but I'm unsure from the information provided in this thread.

We have provided an article at [support.google.com...] that describes ways to segment traffic. This might shed some light as to where users are coming from and which ad units are affected. Hopefully this can help you isolate any issues and take action.

Hope that helps!

John

no john this wouldn't help. actually on google display network only very big sites are ~safe. small publishers have to be lucky attackers don't threat them.
this problem can't be solved on display network with small publishers because all of webmasters are not honest. so if a webmaster effected by attackers and claim oh that fake clicks was not me please don't close my account there is no way for google determinate its true or false because if webmaster really effect by fake clicks from a large bot net , all factors looks same as real clicks. if google don't close account all webmaster will try buy fake clicks and when it discover by google that looks not natural claim whoops that wasn't me ...

matimer




msg:4497682
 10:47 am on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

I got banned from Adsense last week, I signed up on Day 1 of Adsense many moons ago.

Didn't get any warnings, they said


Subject:Google AdSense Account Disabled

Hello,

With our advertising programs, we strive to create an online ecosystem that benefits publishers, advertisers and users. For this reason, we sometimes have to take action against accounts that demonstrate behavior toward users or advertisers that may negatively impact how the ecosystem is perceived. In your case, we have detected invalid activity on your site and your account has been disabled.

We're limited in the amount of information we can provide about your specific violation. We understand this can be frustrating for you, but we've taken these precautionary measures because intentional violators can use this information to circumvent our detection systems.

In some cases, publishers can make significant changes to correct the violation and are willing to comply with the AdSense program policies (google.com/adsense/policies). For this reason, we offer an appeals process as an opportunity to work with you to resolve the issue. To help you with the process, we’ve created a list of the top reasons for account closure for you to review before submission at [support.google.com...] Please be sure to provide a thorough analysis in your appeal, which you can submit at https://support.google.com/adsense/bin/request.py?contact_type=appeal_form and we will follow up accordingly.

Thanks for your understanding,
The Google AdSense Team


I followed the appeals process, saying I had no idea I did anything wrong and that I don't spend any money advertising the site. I did see some bot traffic spiking on a single page of the site and sent them all pertinent information... since I have 5 different sites I did ask which was the one in question, all I got back from them was this:

Hello,

Thank you for your appeal. We appreciate the additional information you've
provided, as well as your continued interest in the AdSense program.
However, after thoroughly re-reviewing your account data and taking your
feedback into consideration, our specialists have confirmed that we're
unable to reinstate your AdSense account.

Please know that, once we've reached a decision on your appeal, further
appeals may not be considered, and you might not receive any further
communication from us. Note that AdSense publishers whose accounts are
disabled for violations of our Terms and Conditions are not eligible for
further participation in AdSense. For this reason, you may not open new
accounts.

Also, accounts disabled for invalid click activity will receive no further
payment nor any reissue of previous payment. Your outstanding balance and
Google's share of the revenue will both be fully refunded back to the
affected advertisers. Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

We understand that you may want more information about your account
activity. However, because we have a need to protect our proprietary
detection systems, we're unable to provide our publishers with any details
about their account activity
.

Lame_Wolf




msg:4497687
 10:58 am on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

We're limited in the amount of information we can provide about your specific violation. We understand this can be frustrating for you, but we've taken these precautionary measures because intentional violators can use this information to circumvent our detection systems.
To me, that sounds like you were not violating the TOS, but outside forces got you banned.
Sgt_Kickaxe




msg:4497737
 12:09 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Perhaps it's time Google reports the number of invalid clicks they are dealing with so we have some sort of warning. It would help webmasters temporarily shut down adsense when they see daily spikes until data can be gathered from our own logs as to the likely origin of the spikes.

Give us a bone to work with Google. AdTrafficQuality your post reads as if you're official from Google, are you?

edit: Is there a method for adwords users to complain about a particular sites results? If there is and your traffic does not convert well enough you might have been taken out by the very people you sent traffic to. Just a thought.

netmeg




msg:4497756
 12:44 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

AdTrafficQuality is from Google.

Yes, AdWords advertisers can exclude sites from displaying their ads if they don't like the quality of the traffic or don't have a good history with them - I do this all the time myself.

If I were worried about invalid clicks, I would start trying to nail it down the minute I noticed a big CTR jump, or traffic from another location or anything out of the ordinary. Unusual numbers of claw-backs on the earnings. When one of my sites got hit by a weird bot attack last February, I had AdSense off within the hour, and I kept it off until the attack stopped (several months later) even though, as far as I could tell, the bots weren't clicking. Because the advertisers are always protected first. That's one of the tradeoffs you live with in exchange for an extremely easy-to-implement ad system that pays reliably and usually more than other ad networks.

System
redhat



msg:4497815
 12:57 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

The following message was cut out to new thread by martinibuster. New thread at: google_adsense/4497813.htm [webmasterworld.com]
6:04 am on Sep 20, 2012 (utc -8)

Lame_Wolf




msg:4497772
 12:59 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

as far as I could tell, the bots weren't clicking.
If you can detect that you were being attacked by bots, the so should Google, and simply dismiss them. With all the PhD's they have, surely then can do something other than ban people from something that wasn't your fault.
netmeg




msg:4497812
 2:00 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

The point is, it doesn't MATTER if it's not my fault.

If I'm an advertiser, and I'm advertising on your site, I don't care if it's you clicking on them or your traffic - if they aren't real clicks or they don't convert, I'm gonna be unhappy. And I'm gonna either block your site from showing my ads, or complain to Google. And I'm sure not gonna want to pay for them.

(I think John just deals with Traffic Quality and not all the other AdSense issues, like the ads)

Lame_Wolf




msg:4497819
 2:11 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

If I'm an advertiser, and I'm advertising on your site, I don't care if it's you clicking on them or your traffic - if they aren't real clicks or they don't convert, I'm gonna be unhappy. And I'm gonna either block your site from showing my ads, or complain to Google. And I'm sure not gonna want to pay for them.
The point is, Google are not stupid and should be able to detect things like bots and simply dismiss them. If they dimiss them, then you won't be paying for dead traffic, and therefore won't be pissed off.

It is far too simple to attack someones site with bots or repeated clicking if from the same IP. Shoot, there wouldn't be many accounts left if they just banned people because of bots. Talk about making it easy for your competitors.

Lame_Wolf




msg:4497823
 2:13 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

(I think John just deals with Traffic Quality and not all the other AdSense issues, like the ads)
Well, he should if he is writing in the Adsense forum, and IMO, if they are now going to show non-english adverts on english sites, then that is poor quality. Traffic quality should be for the Google search forum.
r4bet




msg:4497824
 2:20 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

The point is, Google are not stupid and should be able to detect things like bots and simply dismiss them. If they dimiss them, then you won't be paying for dead traffic, and therefore won't be pissed off.

It is far too simple to attack someones site with bots or repeated clicking if from the same IP. Shoot, there wouldn't be many accounts left if they just banned people because of bots. Talk about making it easy for your competitors.

no my friend its not a bot that repeatedly click on your ads ...
its completely different story
check out here : [en.wikipedia.org...]
google display network only can give you a java script code that you put on your website. a bot-net master with for example 10k bot will open browser in the victims background and normally make them visit your site and click.. there is no way understand a click is from a real person or a victim who have no idea a click happened from his computer ! (there are some factors but attacker can simulate all them to looks completely natural)
they just understand something bad happened when CTR change and so on ...

Lame_Wolf




msg:4497846
 2:41 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

The thing is r4bet, Google have other signals too that could tell if it is one of the other. I had 48 clicks on one channel, and this was for the first hour or so of the day. Google gave me 7p for all of them. They obviously dismissed a lot of them.

r4bet




msg:4497856
 2:56 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

problem is there is no way for them to understand attack from reality by just a java script so they will remove real clicks too when it looks unreal if don't close your account. and thats right because advertiser spent real money but you don't pay to display ads on your site.

r4bet




msg:4497857
 2:59 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

my personal recommendation is when someone threat you just ignore and if he really attacked you and closed your account switch to affilate because its pay per sale and he can't do anything and after 6 month when attacker forgot you open a new adsense account

Lame_Wolf




msg:4497864
 3:18 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

so they will remove real clicks too when it looks unreal
I don't mind that, and I am sure that has happened in the past. I'd rather them take a larger chunk of my earnings, to be on the safe side, than closing my account because of some little tyke pissing around.
netmeg




msg:4497874
 3:37 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Traffic quality should be for the Google search forum.


Nope, different standards, different measurements. Advertising traffic quality is completely different than organic traffic quality. I love you to pieces LW, but I couldn't disagree more on this one.

The point is, Google are not stupid and should be able to detect things like bots and simply dismiss them. If they dimiss them, then you won't be paying for dead traffic, and therefore won't be pissed off.


It's not that easy. Would that it were so. And even if it were, I prefer to be double sure. Because individually, no matter how great I think my sites are, I'm not worth much to Google. And the minute I become more trouble than I'm worth, there's no reason to keep me around.

Lame_Wolf




msg:4497877
 3:39 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

I love you to pieces LW, but I couldn't disagree more on this one.
You do? I am blushing now. :)
netmeg




msg:4497894
 4:40 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Of course, even though you're difficult as all get out.

SevenCubed




msg:4497895
 4:43 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Group hug :)

hal12b




msg:4497929
 7:33 pm on Sep 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

I'll cut to the chase, prepare to have your account banned. Look for something else now instead of after it happens.

diberry




msg:4498303
 4:21 pm on Sep 21, 2012 (gmt 0)

Because the advertisers are always protected first. That's one of the tradeoffs you live with in exchange for an extremely easy-to-implement ad system that pays reliably and usually more than other ad networks.


Excellently put. Someone recently asked me why I wasn't using Adsense, since it would pay better than the other ad providers I use. This is why - there are just a lot of ways you can get banned through no fault of your own, and I *know* I'm probably not savvy enough to figure out something as complex as what the OP is dealing with, or even netmeg's bot attack. I know there's a good chance it would never happen, but I just can't face being at a point where I rely on those Adsense earnings, and then suddenly having to replace them with other advertisers.

(And FWIW, at least in some niches, there are a few ad providers who can really compete with Adsense.)

jbayabas




msg:4498680
 9:44 pm on Sep 22, 2012 (gmt 0)

The Dos attack can be solved by your host. They can block the offending source/ip for you.

Your number 1 concern is the adult content on your website. When someone or your supposed competitor report your page to google, a real person at google reviews your site. If you receive a 3 day warning to make changes to your site, then the violation is legitimate. Your competitor is actually doing you a favor to clean up your site.

My advise to you is to read the updated TOS in regards to adult content and review/clean up your site from top to bottom. Once your site gets disabled, it's very very hard to get it reinstated again.

This 58 message thread spans 2 pages: 58 ( [1] 2 > >
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