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Google Suggests Discussion of AdSense Revshare with Publishers
Announced at World Economic Forum in Davos
elsewhen

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 4:43 pm on Jan 30, 2010 (gmt 0)

At the DLD conference in Munich Monday, Burda CEO Paul-Bernhard Kallen, on a panel with Drummond (Google's Chief Counsel), said publishers wanted transparency and their “fair share.” I asked him, a fair share of what — AdSense? Kallen said yes.

At today’s briefing (at the World Economic Forum in Davos), Arora (Google's President of Sales) said that the company was considering more transparency. I confirmed with Google’s people that this was new. I suspect that they’re not going to promise the possibility and not deliver something.

[businessinsider.com...]

 

drall

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 3:25 pm on Feb 2, 2010 (gmt 0)

I really REALLY do NOT want to know.

physics

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 9:00 pm on Feb 2, 2010 (gmt 0)


The most valuable commodity I know of is information.
-Gordon Gekko from The Movie Wall St.

Why you'd want less of it I'm not sure...

KenB

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 9:36 pm on Feb 2, 2010 (gmt 0)

I've come to the conclusion the webmasters are schizophrenic. How often have we heard the complaint that Google is too secretive? Now that Google is talking about being less secretive about something the complaint is that Google is being too open?

It's enough to make one's head explode... well not really, but come on folks, it seems Google is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Personally I would like to know what my split is. It probably won't change the fact that Google is my primary ad supplier, but it is still information I would like to know.

Lame_Wolf

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lame_wolf us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 9:55 pm on Feb 2, 2010 (gmt 0)

I've come to the conclusion the webmasters are schizophrenic. How often have we heard the complaint that Google is too secretive? Now that Google is talking about being less secretive about something the complaint is that Google is being too open?


I am not bothered either way.

Given the choice, screw the transparency, give us better contact support and not the stupid automated emails directing us to your spammy Google groups.

ddogg

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 10:18 pm on Feb 2, 2010 (gmt 0)

You people who don't care about your split are crazy. Some of the worst business people in this thread here.

Lame_Wolf

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lame_wolf us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 11:09 pm on Feb 2, 2010 (gmt 0)

You people who don't care about your split are crazy.

Really ?
And what if you do know your split is, and you don't like it... what are you going to do, whinge ?

There is nothing you can do if you do know what it is. So what is the point in worrying about it ?

There is nothing stopping you adding different advertisers now if you think it will increase your earnings.

Some of the worst business people in this thread here.

I am not a business man, nor want to be. No one here stated that they were.

KenB

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 11:28 pm on Feb 2, 2010 (gmt 0)

I am not a business man, nor want to be. No one here stated that they were.

If you are running a going concern that is trying to make money (e.g. a website with AdSense ads) you are in business and thus a business man.

Part of running a business is knowing as much as you can about all of the deals you are a part of. In the case of AdSense this would include knowing what the split is. It is foolish not to want to know what it is even if knowing wouldn't change your operational practices.

Lame_Wolf

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lame_wolf us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 11:43 pm on Feb 2, 2010 (gmt 0)

If you are running a going concern that is trying to make money (e.g. a website with AdSense ads) you are in business and thus a business man.


There you go again, asuming. I am not in it to make money. I do not take any commission from any person who sells on my site.

Just because a site has adsense on it, does not mean that it is there to make money. Some people like to try and cover their costs.

There is a huge difference between someone trying to cover their costs, and someone who wants to extract the last possible penny from each page.

If I wanted to make money, I could do 100 other things.

Hippies are not dead, we're just not greedy as others.

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 12:04 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

You people who don't care about your split are crazy. Some of the worst business people in this thread here.


You need to explain why it matters - please enlighten us as to what decision you would make if given this information. I would not take any action given this knowledge. As a good business person, I've already evaluated my options.

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 12:19 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

Right. As a good business person, I know what my priorities are. I concentrate on things I can control.

KenB

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 12:22 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

@lame_wolf,

Your arguing in circles. You admit you have AdSense, but say you aren't trying to make money, but then say you are trying to cover expenses.

Being in business doesn't necessarily mean trying to extract every last penny from every page. Being in business also doesn't mean one is necessarily being greedy. Being in business doesn't make one greedy.

1) You have AdSense on your pages, thus you are collecting revenue;

2) You have expenses that you have to cover.

Money in, money out. Congratulations, you are in business. Running a business is primarily about making sure one's expenses do not exceed one's revenue. Now how much of the blue widget market you are trying to corner will define how greedy you are.

Being in business at its barest level simply means running an operation in a manner such that it doesn't cost more to run than it brings in. Even a non-profit organization needs to be run like a business or it is doomed.

I'm in business, the primary endeavor for my business is web publishing. To make a living with my business I have to make sure my revenues exceed my expenses by enough that I have something to live on without taking another job. Part of this is knowing every piece of information I can get about those things that affect my business. What my share of the AdSense revenue is one of those data points that I should have an interest in knowing about if I can.

I'm no hippie, but I'm also not greedy. I'm just trying to make a reasonable living while not harming others and while contributing something positive to society.

Lame_Wolf

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lame_wolf us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 12:39 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

KenB. <sigh>
FWIW, I have adsense on less than 15% of the site.

Me arguing in circles ? LOL
More like your definition of business man is different to mine.

Feck, how many times do you go into Kroger and ask them how much of a cut they are making from you ?

When I was in the rat race, I worked for a company that made a billion + each year. I got a pissy £25,000 - and my job made them millions. I didn't ask for a bigger cut.

Money in, money out. Congratulations, you are in business.

Maybe so [IYO], but that does NOT make me a business man. Nor do I running a fecking business. It was about 3 years before I even added adsense to that [hobby] site.


and while contributing something positive to society.

Me too, and for free. Sorry, I know you "business men" hate doing things for free and cringe at the word, but hey-ho. ;)

KenB

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 1:35 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

I know you "business men" hate doing things for free and cringe at the word, but hey-ho.

What an arrogant and incorrect comment. We all charge someone for our labors or we don't have a means to pay for the things we need to live (e.g. food, clothes and lodging). Its just that some work for an employer who pays them for their labors. While others of us take the risk of trying to earn money on our own without the guaranteed wages from an employer.

I don't charge users to access my site, but I do have to make a living. Selling advertising on my site provides me with the means to produce something that I can essentially give away for free while still earning a living. AdSense is one means I use of selling some of my ad space. Now if I am to continue to earn enough working for myself so that I don't have to work for someone else, I need to keep tabs on all aspects of my revenues and expenses.

Knowing what my split is with AdSense will help me negotiate deals with other ad brokers to make sure I'm getting the best deal I can.

By the way, I was running my site for almost seven years before AdSense even existed. For the first couple of years there was no advertising on it because no advertising models really existed. So basically my site also started off as a hobby site with no clear business model. It just happened that I was able to develop it into a going concern and to eventually find a way to earn enough from it that I can sustain my self on it and the consulting gigs I take every now and then.

I'm quite proud of having created a business for myself. Very simply I created a job where none would otherwise exist, thus there is one more wage slave job slot available with some faceless corporation that I would have otherwise taken.

buckworks

WebmasterWorld Administrator buckworks us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 1:42 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

I know what my priorities are. I concentrate on things I can control.


Yes. YES.

"Brainshare" is a precious commodity and a savvy business person won't fritter it away fretting about details that won't change anything.

Keep your focus on thoughts and actions that will lead to an improvement of some kind.

KenB

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 1:51 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

"Brainshare" is a precious commodity and a savvy business person won't fritter it away fretting about details that won't change anything.


True, but having the ability to know about a specific piece of information isn't fretting about details. In the case with AdSense splits you look at it, absorb the information and move on. It may or may not have an impact down the road but knowing this piece of information would do no harm.

Where we see fretting over AdSense splits are in the regular AdSense threads with some publisher complaining about how their revenue is up and then down from day to day. We also see fretting with the constant theories that Google is cutting our share or is getting greedy. Having this piece of information out in the open will put an end to the wasteful speculation.

Lame_Wolf

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lame_wolf us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 2:00 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

What an arrogant and incorrect comment.


I could have said the same about your comment about me being a businessman because - according to you "Money in, money out. Congratulations, you are in business."

Hmmm. So every beggar I see on the streets with a card asking for money is a businessman. Money in (collected from kind people)... Money out (Food and drink)... card asking for money (advert)


We all charge someone for our labors


No we don't. I've done many things (not just web) that I do for people that comes out of my pocket and time.

or we don't have a means to pay for the things we need to live (e.g. food, clothes and lodging).


Yes, but that doesn't mean that we are automatically called businessmen.

Its just that some work for an employer who pays them for their labors. While others of us take the risk of trying to earn money on our own without the guaranteed wages from an employer.


Or some get by from other (legal) means to live on, and any other income (adsense) helps for other things, like hosting etc.

I don't see by knowing your cut is going to help you. I've not read the article because, like I said before, I am not bothered what it is. I don't know if the cut is the same for everyone, if it stays the same, or alters daily.

Supposing that it alters daily...
Monday you get 60% cut, Tuesday 55%, Wednesday 40%, Thursday 70%
What are you going to do ? esp when you've made no changes ?

Supposing that it is the same across the board with everyone...
Google gives you 60%... so what ? Was that more than you expected or less ?
What if it was more, would you try and do something to bring it down to your expected levels ?

Shoot, you have no control over it, so why bother worrying about it. I'd rather produce more useful content to the site, or helping someone with a problem etc.

I earn x amount from Adsense. I am happy with that. Knowing what % cut it is going to make me happier or sadder. And nor will it alter anything that I am doing now.

Knowing what my split is with AdSense will help me negotiate deals with other ad brokers to make sure I'm getting the best deal I can.


Ah, so you are money motivated. That's where you and I differ.

KenB

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 2:49 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

Yes, but that doesn't mean that we are automatically called businessmen.


If you are self employed, then you are a business man. If you work for someone else you are a wage slave. I'd rather be called a business man than a wage slave.

I've not read the article because, like I said before, I am not bothered what it is. I don't know if the cut is the same for everyone, if it stays the same, or alters daily.


Then why are you spending so much time in this thread if it doesn't interest you?

Supposing that it alters daily...
Monday you get 60% cut, Tuesday 55%, Wednesday 40%, Thursday 70%
What are you going to do ? esp when you've made no changes ?


I've been at this game for over 14 years, I don't look at day to day fluctuations. I look at long term trends.

Knowing what my general split with Google is would help me know the value of my other ad slots that compete with Google Ads. If I have an eCPM of $x.xx from my Google ads and I know my split with Google is xx% then I can better calculate the full retail value of a given ad slot AND better determine the value of competing ad slots. This information will help me negotiate better deals with other ad brokers for my other ad slots. It will also help me optimize the number of ad slots I have on my site and my total revenues. I have learned over time that if there are too many ads on a site, the extra ads don't actually help generate more income. A page will only earn so much money. My goal is always to find the optimal balance point between maximizing revenues with the fewest number of ads I can.

Knowledge is power and knowledge requires information. My part of the AdSense split is another piece of information.

Ah, so you are money motivated. That's where you and I differ.


I'm motivated by not having to work for someone else, part of that includes getting the best deal I can from my ad brokers. I have a family to feed and bills to pay. This all requires money.

There is a difference between not being greedy and allowing others to take advantage of you. Staying informed as much as possible about your business arrangements helps to protect one's own interests because no one else will.

Lame_Wolf

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lame_wolf us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 2:57 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

If you are self employed, then you are a business man. If you work for someone else you are a wage slave. I'd rather be called a business man than a wage slave.


Yet again you are asuming. tut tut.
I am not self employed. I do not work for anyone. I do whatever I want to do at whatever time I want to.

Then why are you spending so much time in this thread if it doesn't interest you?


Well, if certain people stopped accusing me of being a ruddy businessman, then I won't have to keep replying - and repeating myself and get on with something else.

AND.. my time is my time. I pop in from time to time when I want a break from what I am doing. PLUS, I never said that the THREAD didn't interest me, I said that the PERCENTAGE doesn't bother me. Sheesh.

farmboy

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Msg#: 4071070 posted 3:06 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

You people who don't care about your split are crazy. Some of the worst business people in this thread here.


Two men go to work with Joe as the employer without knowing how much Joe will pay them.

At the end of the day, each get a check from Joe.

The next day, both return without knowing how much they will earn. At the end of the day, each get a check from Joe.

This continues day after day.

One day, during lunch break, Man 1 says, "I want to know what percentage of Joe's income he is passing on to me."

Man 2 says, "I don't really care, I'm happy enough with the dollar amount to keep returning to work each day."

Man 1 responds, "See, that's why I'm a better business person than you. I want to know. Now, lunch break is over, let's get back to work for Joe without knowing how much he will pay us for today."

FarmBoy

Lame_Wolf

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lame_wolf us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 3:09 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

Can I be Man #2 please ? :)

buckworks

WebmasterWorld Administrator buckworks us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 3:21 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

Two men go to work with Joe as the employer without knowing how much Joe will pay them.


Neither does Joe the employer know how much value the two workers will produce.

On both sides, the only way forward is to proceed in good faith and see how things go.

KenB

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 3:31 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

Neither does Joe the employer know how much value the two workers will produce.

Not applicable to AdSense. We only get paid for production (e.g. clicks) and Google can quickly determine the value of that production by their ability to measure how well those clicks convert to the desired objective. Maybe for the first week or so, Google and the advertiser don't have enough data on some sites, but they will know soon enough and both will adjust accordingly.

Petrogold

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 4:33 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

"For the most part, if they paid 150% to publishers they wouldn't even come close to what my income from G is".
"I chose Adsense because it allows me to create great content and let G do the ad sales and deal with all the hassles of payment, customer service, etc."

Good answers. Appreciate if kinldy share more experiences/tips,newbies like me would love.
Thanks & regards,

cwnet

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 5:36 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

To little, to late...

I stopped serving Adsense ads the day I discovered that advertisers are willing to pay ten times as much as I was receiving from Google.

In my case, I left 90% of revenue at Google's table trying to avoid the workload of dealing with advertisers directly.

I wish I would have known a couple of years earlier how little revenue Adsense is passing on to publishers ;-)

micklearn

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 6:19 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

As KenB metioned earlier in this thread: "Eliminating speculation and conspiracy theories about revenue share is a pretty big benefit."

Perhaps that statement works both ways, for publishers and for Google as well. None of us really know why Google has brought up this topic at this particular time. Maybe they came to the conclusion that the more that others know will benefit everyone -- even though revealing the percentage paid out might not make any difference in the end. It's a figure that offers comfort to those in charge of finances, especially at large companies...and a positive gesture on Google's part that most companies aren't used to seeing.

Receptional

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Msg#: 4071070 posted 7:47 am on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

This thread has been a fascinating read, which surprised me. I have always steered relatively clear of Adsense fundamentally BECAUSE the percentage was not transparent. I imagined going to my bank manager to ask for a loan to start a business where the main revenue model was unclear and getting laughed out of the bank.

Perhaps it is not so much the transparency that is important as much as the balance of contractual commitments - something to give reassurance to a business plan. A precursor to a sustainable business in Adsense surely should be transparency.

So I do not rely much on Adsense, but I might in the future if they update this. So I commend Google on this one - but the thread suggests those already earning a living from Adsense think differently.

kurzo

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071070 posted 5:31 pm on Feb 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

I would like to know if the % payout is set at the account level or at a domain/channel level. I would also like to know if I can influence the %. I am sure QS affects payout, but maybe it doesn't - who knows?

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