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Google AdSense Forum

This 32 message thread spans 2 pages: 32 ( [1] 2 > >     
How to see if google is really honest?
10x more traffic, but AdSense falling?
cangoou




msg:4048904
 1:01 pm on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Hello! I have a very x-mas-affine business, so it's usual that before christmas there is about 10-12x more traffic then in other times of the year.

The last years my AdSense-Income increased about the same amount as the traffic: So 10x more traffic means about 10x more AdSense. In fact, the raise of AdSense was more, because more shops are ordering adds before christmas so the CPC raises as well.

This year I have the usually increase in traffic, but my AdSense-income WENT DOWN. Compared to other times of the year that means: 10x traffic, 0.8x AdSense.

Okay, you can blame it on the financial crisis, because other channels in advertising went down as well of course. But while other publishers like newspapers got decreasing orders of adds, Google is announcing an increasing profit after another.

Still Google is not telling us how many of a CPC is given to you when offering AdSense on your page. I was wondering if this is not a solid percentage of the CPC but Google is "opitmizing" that percentage to get more and more profit.

Don't get me wrong: AdSense is a great and easy way to get mony from your website. I just cannot explain the numbers in this year, big companys are still advertising with AdSense on my page, the approx. CPC giving in AdWords is as expected. I'm used to some fluctuations in internet-business due to variable causes, but getting less then 1/10 AdSense of what used to be without any visible reason is very frightening.

 

Leosghost




msg:4048918
 2:21 pm on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

A huge amount of the increased traffic ( your ) visitors ..may very well be opted in by default ..( and they dont know it ) to "personalised search" ..so ( whilst you see xmas related adsense ..because that is your site theme .. when you look at your site )..they may very well not be seeing xmas themed adsense ( and having your site opted out of "personalised search" doesn't prevent this happening )..they could be seeing travel adsense for example ..or car adsense ..or fat adsense ..or whatever their "search history"/"personalised search" tells the plex they are interested in ..

And everyone of them will be seeing something different "adsense" ..and you have no way to tell what they see ..

farmboy




msg:4048933
 2:59 pm on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

A huge amount of the increased traffic ( your ) visitors ..may very well be opted in by default ..(

I don't think this whole "personalized search" thing is anywhere near that point.

If it were, we could all create boring sites about green rocks and sit back while Google delivered ads on appropriate topics for each individual visitor.

I think contextually based ads are still alive and well.

FarmBoy

benallos




msg:4049009
 6:46 pm on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)


Good for you that your traffic is 10X more .... mine it is declining everyday which started first week of December. And of course the income declined also .. a lot ..

IanCP




msg:4049013
 6:52 pm on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Christmas Eve has been a big bang so far and looks like "back to the future" just when I expected a decline.

In fact I was shocked to see December, so far, better than 2007 and 2008 but nowhere near 2006.

Cancellara




msg:4049117
 3:44 am on Dec 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

The fewer impression we assign to adSense the higher eCPM we see. Every time we assign more traffic to adSense, the eCPM goes down.

I agree, the business model is not exactly professional, since you dont even know what your cut is and you do not have (almost) any control over ads displayed. This program is mostly suited to smaller websites and Google knows that so they can take advantage of the little guy.

Just keep working on your site and one day you will also be able to escape the Google slavery.

Merry Christmas!

rashidjaved11




msg:4049931
 5:19 pm on Dec 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

Traffic dropped by 60 - 70%

ogletree




msg:4049995
 9:25 pm on Dec 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

This is not an issue of honesty. Google pays you what they feel like and they are up front about it. You are not owed anything by adsense. They can charge somebody $10 a click and not pay you anything. They are very clear about this. If you don't like what they pay you then choose some other way to monitize your website. Adsense is a slot machine. You never know what it is going to pay.

surfer67




msg:4050119
 3:40 am on Dec 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

Google is a public company and have a responsibility to the shareholder. If they can't continue to grow through increased ad sales, then they can easily cut expenses and publishers are the easiest target.

maximillianos




msg:4051348
 12:40 pm on Dec 30, 2009 (gmt 0)

Adsense is an automated system. I highly doubt it is a candidate for cuttig out to save on expenses. If anything, we might see less support offered as they leave it in cruise control and move resources to other new projects. But why kill off a money making machine where the publishers do most the grunt work?

BillyS




msg:4051354
 12:59 pm on Dec 30, 2009 (gmt 0)

They can charge somebody $10 a click and not pay you anything.

This is far from being correct. As a publisher you have a revenue sharing agreement with Google. Calculations indicate the share is close to 60%.

If they can't continue to grow through increased ad sales, then they can easily cut expenses and publishers are the easiest target.

Disagree, Google wants to extend its reach, and that means attracting more publishers. Google is highly profitable for two reasons:

Their content network offers advertisers higher quality than other networks. Google works hard to maintain the integrity of this network.

Google pays more than other networks because they want premium publishers. If they started to cut back on revenue sharing, they can increase profits in the short term, but lose market share in the long term. Google is too smart to play that game.

I've seen this same issue myself, whereby my traffic increased and my eCPM went down. What I found was that the new traffic stream had a lower CTR and it was also going to pages that traditionally paid less. Also, if the quality of the traffic is low, then this should be expected.

cangoou




msg:4051642
 8:44 pm on Dec 30, 2009 (gmt 0)

Their content network offers advertisers higher quality than other networks.

That might be true, but why aren't they just stating the conditions like "you get 60% of the CPC if you use adsense" or even become contractual on a state share?

Also, if the quality of the traffic is low, then this should be expected.

I wouldn't ask if the last years wheren't so stable in these kind of things. It's the 5th year now I have AdSense on my site and the 4 years before the quality of the traffic seemed to be the same. I ask other webmasters in other niches and almost everybody seems to be complaining about "same traffic, less profit" or "more traffic, same profit". I would understand this if the CPCs where going down as well, but they aren't.

BillyS




msg:4051705
 10:11 pm on Dec 30, 2009 (gmt 0)

That might be true, but why aren't they just stating the conditions like "you get 60% of the CPC if you use adsense" or even become contractual on a state share?

Do you advertise how much money you make on each sale or broadcast your margins to competitors?

cangoou - I looked at some of your other recent posts. Back in September you asked:

Is there a way to see if you got an (O)OOP?

Back in June you observed:

It seems a lot of people (me including) are suffering a kind of "my domain is gone but only for some keywords"-thing.

Back in May, you wondered:

I got some top10-sites that dropped to 50+ as well a week ago, but are now coming back to 20-30. How long is it since your site has been dropping?

Maybe this is the reason you're having trouble?

cangoou




msg:4051723
 10:53 pm on Dec 30, 2009 (gmt 0)

Do you advertise how much money you make on each sale or broadcast your margins to competitors?

Good point. Telling exactly what you get would just make it easier not to think of Google cutting your profit to make more on their own. Ohter advertising-forms (like pay per view or pay per sale) tell you exactly what you get for 1000 views or a sale of 100$.

Don't get me wrong: As I said I like AdSense, it's easy, it fits to your site, but this year is just strange and I'm still trying to find an explanation for it.

Maybe this is the reason you're having trouble?

It wasn't that domain I'm speaking of here. I guess if the domain had been penalized I wouldn't have had the same traffic as in the last years - and the numbers and hights of user-activity (like posts, incoming feedback and orders) are even higher then the last years, so I guess the traffic is "not bad".

And it's not only me: I know some other big sites (with traffic I can only dream off) suffering the same problems not knowing what had happened. But nobody is complaining because they fully depend on AdSense.

Lame_Wolf




msg:4051746
 11:54 pm on Dec 30, 2009 (gmt 0)

In my opinion, if you think that Google are not honest... leave. Otherwise, shut up and accept what you get.

surfer67




msg:4051821
 2:26 am on Dec 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

To know what percentage is paid to publishers is not very important. Personally I would like to know but what really matters is your ecpm. You can compare it with other networks and go on from there.

Ideally I would like to know what the cpc is for each advertiser on my site. This way you can block the lowest paying ads. Google states that the system shows the best performing ads yielding the highest ecpm, but it would be nice to have the ability to run your own tests by blocking certain advertisers. Perhaps this is why they don't allow publishers this freedom. Google wants to be the only one making those decisions. Perhaps they fear that with this type of freedom everyone will begin blocking every 2 cent advertiser out there.

kjennings2




msg:4051854
 3:30 am on Dec 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

In my opinion, if you think that Google are not honest... leave. Otherwise, shut up and accept what you get.

Say you don't think your boss is honest, but you need the job. Should you shut up and accept what you get?

[edited by: incrediBILL at 5:10 pm (utc) on Dec. 31, 2009]
[edit reason] fixed formatting [/edit]

Lame_Wolf




msg:4051855
 3:41 am on Dec 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

Say you don't think your boss is honest, but you need the job. Should you shut up and accept what you get?

I work for nobody but myself. So I am my own boss.
Job ? what's that ? Not had one of them in years. Got out of the rat race ages ago.

But to answer your question... When I worked, I looked at what the job was, what it paid, and location. If it didn't tick all three boxes, I didn't apply for the job. Simple as that.

And just like any job, there is a contract in place. You agreed to those terms when you sign up. If you do not agree to those terms, you didn't get the job.

Pretty simple.

Same with Adsense... you agreed with those terms. If you no longer agree with those, then you know what you can do, yes ?

graeme_p




msg:4051885
 5:14 am on Dec 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

There is no way you can tell whether Google is being honest or not.

If Google gives you a better CPM than you can get elsewhere, sue them. It Google does not, then switch.

There are reasons why you might get higher traffic and lower CPMs. You might find clues looking at how people got there: even if it is mostly search engine traffic, look at what they searched for. Less commercial terms perhaps?

ogletree




msg:4051898
 6:41 am on Dec 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

Google changes their contract very often.

kjennings2




msg:4052010
 12:35 pm on Dec 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

Lame_Wolf

It's a bit more complex than that. You don't have much choice on today's web, you don't get to choose your job much. Google is a monopoly in web search traffic and nobody can live without it. Even if you don't depend on google, their traffic is valuable and nobody gives it up.

AdSense has a contract, yes. Is it fair? Is it ethical? Can we verify Google's information? Those are valid questions, IMHO he should not "shut up", because those are questions that benefit all webmasters. Transparency is never a bad thing.

netmeg




msg:4052141
 4:27 pm on Dec 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

You always have a choice. The minute you think you don't, you've already lost. AdSense is easy. There are many other ways to make money on the web, but they take hard work. I have sites that are nowhere to be found in Google, but earn good money from Yahoo, Bing, Facebook and Twitter. No one site brings in enough to live on - yet - but combined? Absolutely. And those are just the icing on the cake. Add that to the sites that do well in Google (that's the cake) and you have diversity. Multiple baskets for your eggs.

Lame_Wolf




msg:4052158
 4:56 pm on Dec 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

IMHO he should not "shut up", because those are questions that benefit all webmasters. Transparency is never a bad thing.

The "shut up" comment was not aimed at anyone in particular. Like I said, either leave if you do not like the agreement, or you (the public) shut up and accept it. There's no point whining on about it.

incrediBILL




msg:4052179
 5:30 pm on Dec 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

The fewer impression we assign to adSense the higher eCPM we see. Every time we assign more traffic to adSense, the eCPM goes down.

You're describing something in simple economics known as supply and demand.

If your advertisers have limited budgets and there's a small supply of ad space available the cost of that ad space goes up, therefore the highest bidders are winning the sale.

When your supply of ad space radically increases, like 10x, then there's room for the smaller bidders to get into the game as well.

Keep in mind, your competitors traffic also probably just increased 10x if it's a seasonal thing and if they use adsense as well you're really dealing with a massive increase in ad space with possibly no additional ad budgets.

If the traffic isn't estimated to result in ROI for advertisers then smart pricing kicks in.

Not to mention the fact that the source of all that traffic can also invoke smart pricing depending on where it comes from and whether it typically results in sales.

This is what analytics are for, so you can compare what's happening with your site at 10x vs the rest of the year and get a better understanding of what that traffic means.

Drilling down into the data you should be able to identify which sources pay the best and then you have a full year to work on SEM in order to increase your traffic from the highest paying sources.

Understanding how all these variables impact your site makes it much easier to maintain a stable level of income year after year.

Otherwise, it's much easier to blame Google for "stealing" your money.

Ohter advertising-forms (like pay per view or pay per sale) tell you exactly what you get for 1000 views or a sale of 100$.

If they're so much better, why don't you use them?

My guess is they pay squat.

benallos




msg:4052250
 7:00 pm on Dec 31, 2009 (gmt 0)


All I can say is to everyone is ... may we all have a prosperous New Year this 2010. Hoping that our income in adsense will be better in 2010 .. HAPPY NEW YEAR to all !

bumpski




msg:4057293
 12:13 pm on Jan 9, 2010 (gmt 0)

There may be a simple explanation for the reported 10X change and it may be a conceptual problem for Google Adsense interest based ads. And as a result I may turn off interest based ads!

Background:
[googleblog.blogspot.com...]
Configure:
[google.com...]
Learn more:
[google.com...]
The Ads Preferences manager:
[google.com...]
(Frankly I didn't know this existed and I'm a publisher)

By the way, bashing someone who is reporting a very statistically significant change seems like a waste of time to me.

He saw a big change, this could mean Google has a problem that is significant. I've been with Adsense since 2003, and Adsense has had many, many technical and conceptual problems. This post may indicate yet another.

So anyway here's the hypothesis.
Google has introduced interest based ads. What might be a problem with this?
Hmmm. Employees who work all day doing their employer's bidding, and also occasionally shopping for their personal needs at the work place. Purchasing agents do the shopping for work place needs. What ads will the employees see all day long? Work related! The conversion rate for the interest based ads will be awful! The employee will not see ads that are interesting to him for his Christmas shopping!
And not very many people shop at work (Ha).

So maybe "interest based advertising" which is on by default for all Adsense publishers is not a very good idea in a significant number of cases.

Makes me think about turning if off!

rj87uk




msg:4057297
 12:49 pm on Jan 9, 2010 (gmt 0)

I've seen this same issue myself, whereby my traffic increased and my eCPM went down. What I found was that the new traffic stream had a lower CTR and it was also going to pages that traditionally paid less. Also, if the quality of the traffic is low, then this should be expected.

I agree with BillyS and it must be that people are simply too angry with whats happening to sit down and research the problem. Theres always a fix to your problem and if you take time to research and solve it then your laughing. You got this far didn't you?

Lame_Wolf




msg:4057313
 1:49 pm on Jan 9, 2010 (gmt 0)

Makes me think about turning if off!

I turned mine off the very first moment I could. Never looked back.

AndyA




msg:4057511
 10:16 pm on Jan 9, 2010 (gmt 0)

So maybe "interest based advertising" which is on by default for all Adsense publishers is not a very good idea in a significant number of cases.

Makes me think about turning if off!


The problem with that is, turning off interest based ads doesn't have any impact whatsoever on what ads are shown on your site. All it does is prevent Google from using your site visitor's activity while they're on your site as a basis for serving them ads in the future.

They're going to still see ads based on their past activities while they are looking at pages on your site. So, if the kids share the home computer and have been searching for the Widget Doll Collection, chances are Dad will be seeing ads based on those searches while he's searching your landscape and garden site.

At least, that's my understanding, and I asked in another thread and several respected posters verified that was correct.

If people aren't clicking on ads on a site, it could very well be the ads being shown are no longer relevant for the particular individual using the computer at that particular time. Seems to be a pretty serious flaw in the theory to me.

IanCP




msg:4057582
 3:18 am on Jan 10, 2010 (gmt 0)

@ogletree

Google changes their contract very often.

For the uninformed, outside of the USA, backed up by 30+ years of personal business experience.

It's a USA phenomenon. They [USA] have always made up the rules as they have gone along.

Lot's of folks here will not like that, but it is "TRUE"

Need's to be said from time to time as a reminder. So newcomers know the game plan. As I said earlier:

"Backed up by 30+ years of personal business experience".

This 32 message thread spans 2 pages: 32 ( [1] 2 > >
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