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Arbitrage OK?
Letter from the Big G...
willybfriendly




msg:4026194
 1:12 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

OK, here I thought arbitrage was a business model that Google is shutting down.

Imagine my surprise when I opened a letter from Google today that states, in part


[An invitation to try AdWords to drive visitors to your website]...

The emphasis comes from the original. They even gave me a coupon for a $100 credit.

Does the left hand know what the right is doing?

<edit>Fixed bad speeling,/edit>

[edited by: willybfriendly at 1:37 am (utc) on Nov. 17, 2009]

[edited by: martinibuster at 3:37 am (utc) on Nov. 17, 2009]
[edit reason] Removed Email Quote. See TOS. [/edit]

 

sailorjwd




msg:4026199
 1:32 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Google drives me crazy. They go from asking me not to use adwords to sending me two letters, one for each adsense account worth $200 to signup with adwords.
One of the reasons they didn't want me to use adwords was because of the arbitrage thing (bad business model match).

Google is getting worse than the phone company. Of course they know I already use adwords since they have forced me to use the same email for both adsense and adwords! So not only do they waste several $ sending this cr*p out, they also scare and annoy the heck out of me.

It is like getting a letter from the IRS. There can be no good news in there.

Jaideemaak




msg:4026206
 1:46 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm confused. On the Adsense logout screen under 'Google Publisher Tools' there's a message telling Adsense users 'Drive traffic to your site using Google Adwords'

There was another post recently about someone buying cheap advertising space on a highly-visited site in order to get traffic.

Apart from search engines, what are valid ways to get visitors and what aren't? Just because you promote your site some way, does this necessarily make you guilty of arbitrage if you are an Adsense publisher?

I don't promote my sites but I'm just interested to know.

willybfriendly




msg:4026225
 2:27 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Apart from search engines, what are valid ways to get visitors and what aren't? Just because you promote your site some way, does this necessarily make you guilty of arbitrage if you are an Adsense publisher?

Good questions. I am not sure anyone, including Google, has a definitive answer. First there were the AdSense "bad business model match" emails and the accompanying closure of accounts. Then there were the still largely unexplained termination of AdWords accounts.

Of course, the last 2-3 years have brought very little clarity about doing business with Google.

Odd situation we find ourselves in, isn't it?

BigDave




msg:4026239
 2:56 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Start a new site without adsense on it. Buy ads to build some traffic. Put up ads later, or uses non-google ads now.

willybfriendly




msg:4026289
 4:58 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

I just want to clarify, since my original post was edited...

This was a printed, hard copy letter deliverd by snail mail (which, as I read it, is not explicitly prohibited by the TOS). It was addressed to me as an AdSense user and in bolded typography invited me to use AdWords to drive traffic to my website. the letter filled a full page and had an attached coupon with promotion code to redeem for AdWords credit.

Not trying to push limits here, but without the context of the letter it is hard to discuss the ramifications.

smallcompany




msg:4026326
 6:18 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Does the left hand know what the right is doing?

Both left buddy, both are left... that's why all the crap is going on...

zett




msg:4026332
 6:34 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

I also do get invitations to test Adwords from time to time. Never bothered enough to actually do the test.

But yeah, this goes to show that Google is just the average clueless corporate. Some folks in the company may be smart, but other parts, including their marketing, are just entirely clueless. In my opinion.

IanCP




msg:4026344
 6:51 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

It was addressed to me as an AdSense user and in bolded typography invited me to use AdWords to drive traffic to my website

a) You are absolutely certain this originated from AdWords?

b) You are absolutely certain this was sent to you in your capacity as an AdSense Publisher?

I'm not doubting what you say but, I don't immediately buy the left hand/right hand theory.

Sure it's not SPAM / SCAM?

Green_Grass




msg:4026347
 7:03 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

It is not Spam or scam. I get these mails with a Google contact no. asking me to take their help to drive traffic to adSense sites. I guess, this is so, they can ban the adWord account or the adSense acoount.. They seem to get some kind of happiness from this. Very unprofessional and unethical not to say in very bad taste.

The marketing does not know what the operation guys are doing..the adsense guys don't know what they are doing on adwords side..The spam team does not know what is happening anywhere..and the guys doing site reviews seem to have very narrow guideleines with total discretion to destroy any biz..

chrisv1963




msg:4026358
 7:42 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

"The marketing does not know what the operation guys are doing..the adsense guys don't know what they are doing on adwords side..The spam team does not know what is happening anywhere..and the guys doing site reviews seem to have very narrow guideleines with total discretion to destroy any biz.."

And this is why sooner or later Google's business model will collapse. It's only a matter of years.

martinibuster




msg:4026360
 7:42 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Driving visitors to your site to promote awareness is different from driving visitors to a bare web page with ads that is clearly for arbitrage. This is not a case of the left hand/right hand. It's a case of stopping to think of ways PPC can help your site grow. PPC is more than arbitrage. I know because I use it in a myriad of creative ways and I'll show you one of those ways below.

But before I do that, please take a moment to consider what the CTR is on the ads that go north. It can go as high as 10-50%. What that means is that after you battle your way to the number one position you may have to deal with a PPC ad up north hoovering a significant portion of traffic that otherwise may have swung your way. As Karl Malden used to say in those old commercials for Amex: "What do you do? What can you do?" Whip out the Amex?

It's a common complaint that if only they had more exposure people would tell their friends, webmasters would link to their site and they'd become more popular. If your site is good then put your money where your mouth is and drive traffic to it via a well planned PPC campaign.

Here's an example of what you can do to increase links to and awareness of your site: Do a PPC campaign for ["your niche" + Blogs] and drive it to a page on your site that features the top bloggers in your niche. Bloggers love to link to quality sites. Let bloggers know you are there via PPC.

[edited by: martinibuster at 7:56 am (utc) on Nov. 17, 2009]

smallcompany




msg:4026361
 7:44 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

The marketing does not know what the operation guys are doing..the adsense guys don't know what they are doing on adwords side..The spam team does not know what is happening anywhere..and the guys doing site reviews seem to have very narrow guideleines with total discretion to destroy any biz..

Well said... and unfortunately very scary...

Yeah - Google's Policy Team... not connected to ordinary people. That reminds me onto special police or army forces in some areas of our world... Oh my...

smallcompany




msg:4026362
 7:46 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Bloggers love to link to quality sites. Let bloggers know you are there via PPC.

Yeah... That's why my incoming links are full of my tracking crap - from AdWords ads.

martinibuster




msg:4026364
 7:52 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

>>>Yeah... That's why...

That's why god inventented htaccess. ;) Eric Ward calls it Link Reclamation. He's been talking about that [seroundtable.com] for awhile.

smallcompany




msg:4026366
 8:02 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

htaccess

Still growing... redirect, redirect, redirect, redi... argh where is my beer?

Hey! Maybe if I run AdSense, then use AdWords, hmmm... it may work. BANG!

martinibuster




msg:4026367
 8:06 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

I think the OP may be stretching the definition of arbitrage, because sending PPC traffic to a site with AdSense on it is not necessarily arbitrage. Just like sleeping with someone who bought you a drink earlier in the evening doesn't make you a gigolo. It's a stretch. ;)

smallcompany




msg:4026374
 8:24 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

See my post

Read it already. I agree 100%.

It is just that the latest AdWords account "killing" exercise is initiating many of ironic comments.
Now all that supplemented by this invitation... holly shmolly. Many AdSense folks dread of AdWords... because when QS kicked in initially, I believe it made a massacre among some.
Yeah, ASK has never gotten stopped... Buy example at example.com

Running to secure example.com!

Taken...

icedowl




msg:4026425
 10:22 am on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

I got the same letter with the same coupon a few days ago. I might consider it a souvenir, frame it and hang it on a wall - but use it? No way!

AndyA




msg:4026501
 1:10 pm on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Perhaps ASA or AWA can jump in here and let us know officially what the deal is. I also received the letter. It's absolutely from Google, it's addressed to "AdSense Publisher" and it even mentions since I'm familiar with the benefits of AdSense on my site, and it's signed by a person identified as the Head of AdSense Marketing.

I would hope the head of AdSense would be aware of a possible violation of the rules by doing this.

I'm not touching it until I get word from someone that it's OK to send traffic to my site with AdWords, even though AdSense ads might appear on the landing page with other content.

johnnie




msg:4026542
 1:55 pm on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Now here's a funny one. Google actively encouraging its publishers to get banned.

tlspiegel




msg:4026599
 3:27 pm on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Last week I also received the letter from G.

netmeg




msg:4026613
 3:48 pm on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm flummoxed that people can't see the difference between driving PPC traffic to promote a site with a lot of good unique content and some ads, and a site with a lot of ads and a little bit of (unique or not so unique) content. But I guess I shouldn't be.

I used AdWords for a couple of years to drive traffic to my main event site, and never had a bit of problem about it. My QS was 7 to 10 across 1000 keywords, and I usually paid around 3 cents a click. Only reason I don't use it for that site now is that I don't really need to; it ranks in the top five for pretty much every city in the state.

I on and off use AdWords to promote other sites, some with AdSense and some without, and I'm not particularly worried about it because it's very obvious that these sites are 90% content and 10% (or less) ads.

Green_Grass




msg:4026630
 4:06 pm on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

should we use the coupon?. I received one a few days back. They seem to know my sites.. But wait they know nothing because I am already using adwords with the same email i.d. they sent the mail to.. so..I should be o.k. Huh.. But I just got a few QS 1 's so.. what do I do.. Do I assume google is all knowing or that they are totally befuddled, confused, with misplaced priorities.

Yeah.. I know about the content vs ad argument. But the line is thin.. the risks great. What worked a couple of months back will not necessarily work anymore.

smallcompany




msg:4026695
 4:53 pm on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm flummoxed that people can't see the difference between driving PPC traffic to promote a site with a lot of good unique content and some ads, and a site with a lot of ads and a little bit of (unique or not so unique) content.

Most of AdSense folks build sites for AdSense. And many have evolved into webmasters that have great sites, but still there for AdSense only.
Unless you're NYT, WP, About or similar... and even sites like About have come up with "make money" in mind, then they figured they would need content, just so they can serve those "white teeth" annoying ads that look nothing but spammy, because I see them on "very bad" sites, too.

The line is thin - as per Green_Grass.

Lame_Wolf




msg:4026699
 4:55 pm on Nov 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

I binned mine. I value my account more than having a few extra visitors.

soona99




msg:4026971
 12:07 am on Nov 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

I got the letter today too with a coupon. Years ago, yes I used adwords and adsense together. As we all know, it worked very well for a while but these days there's no way I would ever, ever run adwords to a site with any adsense ads on it anywhere. I was absolutely flabbergasted they would send something out like that.

AdSenseAdvisor




msg:4027028
 1:35 am on Nov 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

I just wanted to step in to clarify our policies when it comes to customers of both AdWords and AdSense.

The AdSense team wants nothing more than for you to grow your business by growing your site's audience. AdWords is one of many ways to promote your site. Plenty of online and offline businesses have benefited from advertising on Google.com and Google's content network.

The challenge is when you use both products in a way that creates a bad user experience by ignoring the spirit of the AdWords Landing Page Quality guidelines. In other words, if you use advertising to promote your site, you need to be honest in the ad about what your site provides.

We don't have a problem with publishers advertising the benefits of their sites. We have a problem with publishers misrepresenting their sites in their ads or creating a deceptive business model that hurts the user experience.

If you're unsure whether what you're doing is deceptive, don't do it. That's always the best advice when it comes to policy questions. :)

ASA

PS: You can find the AdWords Landing Page and Site Quality Guidelines here [adwords.google.com] and the Google Webmaster guidelines here [google.com].

smallcompany




msg:4027103
 4:18 am on Nov 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

PS: You can find the AdWords Landing Page and Site Quality Guidelines here and the Google Webmaster guidelines here.

Then come to AdWords thread and ask to get those pages explained. :)))))

And guess what all of the experts over there will tell you... We don't know.

zett




msg:4027145
 6:43 am on Nov 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

Plenty of online and offline businesses have benefited from advertising on Google.com and Google's content network.

Like the WW members who discuss in the respective threads at the Adwords forum here [webmasterworld.com], here [webmasterworld.com] and here [webmasterworld.com]?

This 41 message thread spans 2 pages: 41 ( [1] 2 > >
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