homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.161.246.212
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member
Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdSense
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: incrediBILL & jatar k & martinibuster

Google AdSense Forum

This 70 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 70 ( 1 [2] 3 > >     
More competition for your display ad inventory
Get the most revenue from every impression through AdSense
AdSenseAdvisor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 1:34 am on Aug 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

We just announced that publishers will now be able to allow Google-certified ad networks to compete with AdWords advertisers for the display inventory on your pages.

This is great news for you because it means the auction for your image-ad-enabled ad blocks will be getting more competitive.

Please check out today's Inside AdSense blog post and the AdSense Help Center [google.com] for the full scoop, but I'm here to answer as many of your questions as I can.

Seriously, this has been a long time in the making and I hope you're as excited as I am.

ASA

We're rolling this out slowly in coming months, so please don't read anything into short-term revenue fluctuations (which I can almost guarantee have nothing to do with today's launch).

 

IanCP

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 5:54 am on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

your image-ad-enabled ad blocks

Then that leaves me out ASA.

tangor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tangor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 6:14 am on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

...worst AdSense month I've had since 2004. Can only go up from here.

Sorry netmeg... it can get worse!

tszyn

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 11:09 am on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

I bet these third-party networks are full of annoying animated Flash ads. I hate animated ads. I think they are a major reason why so many people use AdBlock. Why can't we allow images, but disallow animations? The feature has been on everyone's wishlist for years.

I also agree with others who have noted that image ads (and especially animated ads) should be sold on a CPM basis. Let's face it: they are as much about branding as they are about action.

Edge

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 12:22 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

More competition for your display ad inventory

Competition normally drives prices/earning up, however GG is going to be the middle-man.

I have not seen any business move by Google AdSense in the last five years that has improved my earning per labor hour (EPL).

true_INFP

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 12:27 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

Can only go up from here.

If it's zero. Otherwise, I wouldn't be so sure...

johnnie

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 1:58 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

Seems like its an opt-out thing. Not that I want to opt-out, but I just noticed.

johnnie

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 2:01 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

It will be hard to compete with adsense through one of these networks. Instead of one (google), you now have two middle-men creaming off their part (google AND the network), only further lowering the CPC for the publisher.

Also, do we need to update our privacy policy for this? Or are external parties not allowed to cookie?

ken_b

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ken_b us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 2:16 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

image-ad-enabled ad

I missed that when I first read ASA's post. The emails I got didn't mention that.

So this is just for image ads? I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

Edge

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 2:57 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

It will be hard to compete with adsense through one of these networks. Instead of one (google), you now have two middle-men creaming off their part (google AND the network), only further lowering the CPC for the publisher.

After further reflection on this new GG opportunity I'm having challenges visualizing how I'm going to benefit from this arrangement

Currently, I share click revenue with GG on Adsense, and GG decides on which ads show as well as the revenue split. With this new opportunity the revenue will be split three-ways and I still donít any say on the revenue split.

ASA, this new opportunity needs to benefit the publisherís bottom line for any sticky-ness on quality sites.

true_INFP

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 4:03 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

ASA, will ads from third-party ad networks be labeled "Ads by Google"?

denisl

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 4:47 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

So - it's being sold to us on the basis it will increase competition between and push up our (and of course G's) revenues.

How is it being presented to those using Adwords - not in the same way I guess.

I have to be a bit concerned that by bringing these networks under the G umbrella, competition will be reduced in the longer term, a factor that is unlikely to worry G if they have more of a monopoly but may reduce our revenues. Of course there is nothing we will be able to do about that so we will be better off going with it.

I have no intention of blocking them at the moment.

signor_john



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 6:15 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

Instead of one (google), you now have two middle-men creaming off their part (google AND the network), only further lowering the CPC for the publisher.

Why would that be, unless you already had a direct arrangement with the third-party network and gave it up to display that network's ads through Google?

It seems to me that the concept is pretty simple: AdSense advertisers are now competing not only with each other, but also with third-party networks. In theory, at least, that should drive prices up, resulting in higher earnings for both Google and the publisher.

Obviously, not all publishers will find this scheme attractive: I won't participate, for example, because I already have an exclusive contract with a vertical display-ad network and use AdSense only for text ads. But for publishers who are currently relying solely on AdSense for ad income, the new "certified ad network" option could be valuable. Instead of dismissing it out of hand (and possibly leaving money on the table), why not test it? To paraphrase an old expression, "Experience is the best teacher, but guesswork teaches nothing."

londrum

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 6:22 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

i don't think it will drive prices up.
if you think about it, google are not going to turn an advertising space over to a 3rd party if they're going to make less money off it than they would with one of their own ads. so the 3rd party still has to give google the same rate they would have got originally. that means the cost to the 3rd party will inevitably rise -- because they need a bigger pie to share out.
but google won't want to make the price too prohibitive, so the only way they can bring it down is to cut the publishers cut.

the benefit for google is that there will be loads more ads and presumably loads more clicks, making more money for them.
publishers won't benefit from a price rise, i don't think. but maybe they will benefit from getting more clicks -- at a lower rate.

signor_john



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 7:16 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

publishers won't benefit from a price rise, i don't think. but maybe they will benefit from getting more clicks -- at a lower rate.

Forget about clicks. Display ads are about branding and building awareness. In my experience, display ads--at least in the right niches--can fetch far higher CPMs than CPM text ads do. And in some cases, they can even fetch much better CPMs/eCPMs than contextual cost-per-click ads do.

As for the notion that Google will make less money with third-party ads than it would with its own ads, that's not necessarily a correct guess. Google hasn't been terribly successful in selling display ads to major advertisers, and CPM text ads have a limited market. Depending on what the CPMs are, and on what share of the third-party ad network's revenue Google receives for supplying inventory (especially targeted inventory), both Google and AdSense publishers could benefit from the scheme.

Another thing that this new "Certified Ad Networks" scheme could do (and ideally should do) is make CPM display ads available in situations where Google would otherwise be serving CPM text ads.

But why speculate? If you're already allowing Google to serve display ads, it's easy enough to try the "certified ad network" option and see whether the new option works for you.

AdSenseAdvisor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 7:54 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

Just letting you know I haven't forgotten about you. There are a lot of questions and the folks I'm double checking the answers with from are pretty busy right now (for obvious reasons).

You're surfacing a lot of great questions here. Keep 'em coming and I'll add them to the list. :)

One quick clarification: this launch only impacts image-ad-enabled ad units. To reap the benefits, you do need to have image ads enabled for your inventory.

ASA

koan

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 9:07 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm all for it if it boosts Adsense CPM capabilities, especially for sites with low CPC demand, like some forums about non commercial topics, without the needed traffic for bigger advertising companies. Most big CPM network don't care about sites with traffic below a certain limit because it becomes too much management for their worth, but Google could manage all this contextually.

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 9:10 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

I posted something over in the AdWords side about it too, wondering about the effect on us advertisers (putting on other hat)

Edge

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 9:26 pm on Aug 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

It seems to me that the concept is pretty simple: AdSense advertisers are now competing not only with each other, but also with third-party networks. In theory, at least, that should drive prices up, resulting in higher earnings for both Google and the publisher.

Donít forget, third party networks are also competing with Adwords. In theory that could encourage the third party networks advertisers to lower their bids, resulting in a better advertiser ROI and lower ad earnings for the ad publishers. Why pay more than one has to with publishers so plentiful (ad spaces)?

Now, if we could use the third-party ads as a back fill and specify the minimum payout we (publishers) receiveÖ..

surfer67

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 1:19 am on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

It's best to wait and see how this works out before making conclusions. However, I have come to learn from many years at this game that whenever an ad network makes a change, it almost always helps the ad agency and hurts the publisher.

jojy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 1:40 am on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

I saw this yesterday on adsense blog, but there wasn't any thing mentioned about ad serving reports for 3rd party ads. We definitely wants to know how many impressions are going to 3rd party ad serving and how much we are getting from it.

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 3:01 am on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm a glass half full guy. Competition should help drive up the price of advertisements, which will be good for publishers.

Great move Google!

farmboy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member farmboy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 3:38 am on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm a glass half full guy. Competition should help drive up the price of advertisements, which will be good for publishers.

Personally, I think making the AdWords side of things simpler and more certain would encourage more people to become AdWords advertisers, more current AdWords advertisers to increse their budgets, etc, and diminish the need to seek out ad inventory from other networks.

But that's a dead horse issue I guess, so I'll stop beating that horse.

FarmBoy

loner

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 3:02 pm on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

Sounds like another middle man that will suck more off the publisher's end. "Competition", yeah, right.

-

mixart

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 4:22 pm on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

It looks like I'm seeing these changes in my account and they are very welcomed. People need to learn to just be willing to try new things - be thankful they gave us an option to opt-out :)

It's a little early to tell if there are other factors, but I've noticed an increase in overall revenue from these changes of about 15%

signor_john



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 5:26 pm on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

It looks like I'm seeing these changes in my account and they are very welcomed. People need to learn to just be willing to try new things - be thankful they gave us an option to opt-out :)

You don't even need to opt out if you aren't using AdSense "image ads."

surfer67

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 8:15 pm on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

It looks like I'm seeing these changes in my account and they are very welcomed

You mean they've already implemented this?

coachm

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 8:36 pm on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

CPC and CPM are different, right? But most importantly they are different because Google calculates how much you earn via CPC per thousand visitors, then compares that to the CPM bid. Comparing CPC to CPC is a no-brainer. Comparing CPM to CPM is similarly a no-brainer. Comparing CPC to CPM is not straightforward for the reasons outlined above and won't repeat.

Well, sort of. Honest, there is nothing new here. Google has been doing this for some time directly, via cpm targeted ads, and indirectly through the process of determining what ads to show on your site.

In effect, google decides which ads to show by looking at the bid and the predicted ctr, which in effect makes it the same kind of metric as cpm, regardless of what it's called.

It's simple to convert from one to the other if you have ctr and ad price. And that is what they have. And what they have been doing for pretty much the entire adsense program.

Don't know about you, but I always convert the returns on cpc type ads into cpm metrics, so I can decide what I should be showing. Google does that, and shows that metric in your reports.

So, again, they are doing it, can do it, just as we all do. And have done.

swa66

WebmasterWorld Senior Member swa66 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 8:45 pm on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

As coachm points out it is simple to do the math, but there is more to it:

which do you -as a publisher- like best:
1000 views, 10 clicks, $0.1 CPC = 1 CPM
1000 views, 100 clicks, $0.01 CPC = 1 CPM

I'm entirely with the first ... I honestly can't care about the latter: losing -selling?- loads of visitors for next to nothing ? And then probably getting "but they don't buy stuff" from the advertisers.

The above is not entirely unbalanced:
1000 views, 0.1 click, $10 CPC = 1 CPM, but if you miss the click you get nothing ..
But there isn't any indication Google adwords has that kind of advertiser ...
The problem ones are mostly in the $0.01 CPC range I'm afraid.

I've yet to see anything able to cut off the too long tail for those niches that do have enough quality advertiser, but who get overrun by the crappier with more click inducing (but far lower paying) ads.

fearlessrick

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 8:53 pm on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

Well, after watching my site's metrics at absurdly low levels all day, I decided to block all but one of the certified ad networks. I don't know how anybody else does math, but from my understanding, since I have always taken both image and text ads, this can only be a loser for me and today's results have proven that emphatically.

Google taking a share from an outside network is probably not going to produce better revenue for publishers. JMO.

true_INFP

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 8:56 pm on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

You mean they've already implemented this?

I don't know if they actually started to display 3rd-party ads but I saw a list of 3rd-party ad networks in the Ad Review section of my AdSense account yesterday. The list allows you to ban any of the listed networks.

farmboy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member farmboy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3978619 posted 9:40 pm on Aug 28, 2009 (gmt 0)

It looks like I'm seeing these changes in my account and they are very welcomed. People need to learn to just be willing to try new things

This is what ASA wrote in the OP just 3 days ago:

We're rolling this out slowly in coming months, so please don't read anything into short-term revenue fluctuations (which I can almost guarantee have nothing to do with today's launch).

FarmBoy

This 70 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 70 ( 1 [2] 3 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdSense
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved