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Google Bugs May Contribute to Lower AdSense Income
Google Translate and Cache May Be Losing AdSense Money
incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 6:31 am on Jun 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

When we're all facing a huge downturn in the economy you would expect that Google would get all of their properties communicating properly to make sure they're maximizing every dollar possible both for themselves and their publishers.

Sadly, that doesn't appear to be the case.

I just tested a handful of my own properties and some of other people's in both Google Translate and Google Cache to see what kind of ads are being displayed, and mostly it was a shocking and abysmal failure.

Most sites I ran through the Google Translator either went completely off target or displayed ads about translator services. Some did display the proper ads but it didn't matter because they were being displayed to me in ENGLISH, not in the translated language that I requested, which was either FRENCH or SPANISH.

What good are ads in English when I'm at the console (or some foreign kiosk) asking for the page to be shown in another language, wouldn't it be prudent to assume I wanted to see the ad content in the same language?

This wouldn't be such an issue except I run a site of worldwide interest and get hundreds, sometimes thousands, of translation requests per day and if the ads don't work there's little value of letting them use the translator.

FAIL.

Next, I went back to check and see if pages in Google cache, which have had problems for many years getting the AdSense ads correct, were still having a problem. Some of the sites displayed appropriate ads but others were still displaying off the wall ads totally unrelated to the site.

FAIL.

So there you have it, lots of lost revenue opportunity just laying around waiting for Google to fix some very basic bugs that would possibly generate revenue for everyone and give us a needed boost in this downturn economy.

<side note>
The Google Translator also inserted some Google text where my ad banner rotator lives so they just flat out nuked my banner ad system which is additional money lost.

FAIL
</side note>

What say you Google, any plans to fix these simple issues that impede our earnings when our pages are at the mercy of your own services such as translate and cache?

There's money being left on the table, MY MONEY, and I don't like it.

Fix it please.

Translate YOUR site, view YOUR site in cache, what do you see?

Are your ads being shown on target or worthless gibberish?

Let's find out how wide spread this problem is, if it's beyond my limited testing.

[edited by: incrediBILL at 7:38 am (utc) on June 16, 2009]

 

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 6:58 pm on Jun 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

It's been noted that the teams developing these tools don't always communicate with other parts of Google. This may be an instance of that.

Google Translate visitors are fairly numerous. Google would be doing publishers a service by helping us monetize Google translate visitors.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 7:00 pm on Jun 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

Also, what's the point of even displaying AdSense in millions of cache pages if you can't display the right ads?

I see money going right down the toilet.

Perhaps if enough people complained they might fix the bugs and we can see if it impacts our bottomline.

[edited by: incrediBILL at 7:06 pm (utc) on June 16, 2009]

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 7:01 pm on Jun 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

My sites don't get translated very often, but definitely noticed the cache issue, before I set everything to nocache.

But I have some client sites I should probably check up on; thanks Bill.

AndyA

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 11:17 am on Jun 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Invariably when I check to see if there are any crawling errors for the AdSense bot, the ones listed are some sort of cache. Not necessarily just Google, but Yahoo and Bing as well. It does seem that something is lost when a cached version of a page is viewed.

leadegroot

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 1:41 pm on Jun 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Two points-

I thought we didn't get paid for content showing on google properties?

and - for the language issue - Google may 'know' that you're an English speaker and shows you english ads anyway (but I wouldn't count on it)

IanCP

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 5:12 pm on Jun 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

I've been thinking about this for awhile, even before the topic came up. Much of my site gets translated.

The question is "What to do?"

The matter of "cache" I've been thinking about for years and years. All I seem to do is "leave it alone" on odd numbered days and then plump for "no cache" on the even numbered ones.

[added] It would be nice if ASA could offer some input!

[edited by: IanCP at 5:14 pm (utc) on June 17, 2009]

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 6:36 pm on Jun 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Google may 'know' that you're an English speaker and shows you english ads anyway

If knows my browser is English, but think kiosk situation or visitor, someone else is using my computer (or kiosk) and translating the page into their native language and the ads aren't in their native language.

It makes no sense whatsoever, it should all be the same language.

I thought we didn't get paid for content showing on google properties?

If Google were to profit from ads running on full blown cache pages without sharing that income it would violate the very tenant of fair use for a full web page, not just a snippet, because they would be monetizing the content, so they better be sharing ;)

purplecape

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 6:54 pm on Jun 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

I thought we didn't get paid for content showing on google properties?

We do if we put the relevant URLs in our Allowed Sites list...

mysticalsock

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 11:03 pm on Jun 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

Does anyone have a list of the google cache and translate urls that we can ad to our allowed sites?

Future

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 8:12 am on Jun 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

They do this from a vast range of IP address.
good question though.

[edited by: Future at 8:13 am (utc) on June 21, 2009]

jkovar

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 12:12 pm on Jun 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

I didn't have any problems at all with the cache: ads.

I tried messing with my preferred language in Opera before going to translate, making sure my Accept-Language header contained only the language I was translating to (es/fr), and still got English ads.

I never thought of using Javascript to detect language before, but considering JS is what Adsense uses to display the ads, I wonder if there's some sort of JS property which isn't related to the Accept-Language HTTP header but instead reads something from the operating system that Adsense uses to determine which language to display ads in.

johnnie

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 1:49 pm on Jun 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

Maybe google ads are targeted to your IP location and system language settings? That would explain the mismatch of the ads. Think of it from an advertiser perspective; what sense would it make for the French amazon to display ads to a US visitor, when the US amazon can also do this?

blend27

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 1:55 pm on Jun 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

--- or displayed ads about translator services. ---

This might be totaly "off the wall", but wouldn't it make "AdSense" for Google to place Adverts about "Translation Services" on Translate action rather than Adverts that are related to your site content. When the user is trying to translate, the TASK at that point becomes "Translate" and NOT "about Blue widgets". Just throwing it out there...

gpilling

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 3:57 pm on Jun 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

I just checked the cached copy of one of my sites and it shows the same Google Adsense code as the original.

Gomvents

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 4:16 pm on Jun 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

incrediBILL, regarding:

"If Google were to profit from ads running on full blown cache pages without sharing that income it would violate the very tenant of fair use for a full web page, not just a snippet, because they would be monetizing the content, so they better be sharing ;)"

sadly, they don't share the revenue generated there because they view the cache as their property and unless you "noarchive" meta-tag your sites you agree to let Google cache your site, and per their TOS you agree to forfeit any rights to your content in the cache, including any earnings potential. They view the cache as a service to you. not sure about Google translate but I wouldn't be surprised if the same premise applies.

londrum

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 4:27 pm on Jun 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

so this is what the cache is: they are displaying our entire site (including all the text and images) and earning money off it.
that goes a bit beyond fair use, surely. people moan about google news taking headlines and snippets and giving next to nothing back, and here they are taking the whole lot.

i've never seen the point of the cache. the only benefit you get out of them having displaying it is when your site goes down. it doesn't send you any extra traffic that you couldn't get anyway through the search engine link.

glad i noarchived it ages ago.

shoreline

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 5:01 pm on Jun 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

You're kidding about Google not paying you for anything clicked on in their cache, right?

If this is the case, then why would you not include a noarchive on each of the pages? Am I missing something?

Actually, I've thought about noarchive for a while now, but I heard that doing so may drop you down a notch in ranking... that you are trying to hide something, etc...

Any thoughts on this?

greenleaves

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 9:59 pm on Jun 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

Actually, I've thought about noarchive for a while now, but I heard that doing so may drop you down a notch in ranking... that you are trying to hide something, etc...

Any thoughts on this?

I had not drop in rankings when I made the switch. Just do it.

Nothing good comes of having your site in the cache... but plenty of bad can.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 11:00 pm on Jun 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

I've thought about noarchive for a while now, but I heard that doing so may drop you down a notch in ranking

I've been NOARCHIVE for a few years now on a couple of sites, nothing negative happened whatsoever except scrapers had one less source to leech from to get at my content.

For more information about the pros and cons of NOARCHIVE, with many links back to articles on WebmasterWorld on the topic, see [noarchive.net...]

per their TOS you agree to forfeit any rights to your content in the cache, including any earnings potential

Since when?

I'd like to see a direct link to that information because that's beyond borderline on copyright infringement, copyright is never OPT-OUT, it's OPT-IN, so monetizing your full blown cache page without permission, and AdSense is obviously permission, would cause some major court cases which is why none of the big SEs show their own bank of ads on cache pages.

jojy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 11:11 pm on Jun 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

agreed with incrediBILL, I suggest this feature long time ago but nothing happened yet.

moTi

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 3:14 am on Jun 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

take it one step further: framing other peoples' websites (without their consent) is already not allowed. not only if you monetize on that content by displaying ads on the frame.
i don't remember ever giving my (opt-in!) consent to let google frame my pages for their cache/translation service. as incredibill said: copyright is never opt-out.

let's face it: what google does here is illegal. they would have to get our approval of framing our web pages in any event. any website who attempts this must ask for permission.

here are the remedies:

- against framing - frame buster javascript:

if (top.location!=self.location) {top.location.replace('/');}

- against google cache - noarchive meta tag:

<meta name="robots" content="noarchive">

- if required: against translation tool - notranslate meta tag:

<meta name="google" value="notranslate">

2clean

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 6:57 am on Jun 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

I have to say that I've been using Bings translate option, it is fantastic because it has a view that puts two versions of your website side by side (translated version on the right) and you can mouseover the text on the left frame and it is highlighted on the right (excelent as a language learning tool). Much better than that Babelfish mashup.

graeme_p

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 10:48 am on Jun 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

<meta name="google" value="notranslate">

What about all the other translation tools? Blocking just Google's seems futile.

I use noarchive, but I would like a way to make an exception for archive.org. Does anyone know of a way to do that?

londrum

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 11:55 am on Jun 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

this little bit of php at the top of your page blocks pretty much all of the translation sites, but maybe there's a few other handy sites that it blocks too.
if(isset($_SERVER['HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR'])) { ...block it }
graeme_p

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 12:50 pm on Jun 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

Thanks, but that looks a bit drastic to me! I would be worried about it affecting other users.

shoreline

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 1:13 pm on Jun 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

Back to incrediBILL's request for a direct link from Gomvents on his statement of
per their TOS you agree to forfeit any rights to your content in the cache, including any earnings potential

I would like to see that link as well.

YieldBuild

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 7:29 pm on Jun 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

Regarding the translated pages and ads in English, I wonder how much of it is a technical bug vs an ad coverage issue.

It seems like it's been very difficult for ad networks (even google) to crack the international ad market. From our internal stats, this is the fastest growing segment and the lowest CPMs.

Gomvents

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 2:19 pm on Jun 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

FYI, Google's standard M.O. below: prove they've done something wrong that made you lose money or gave them money instead of you and they may credit you up to $1,000 but the burden falls purely on you. As a publisher you have no way of knowing what is going on specifically in terms of lost revenue, clicks etc.

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graeme_p

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3934084 posted 7:35 am on Jun 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Gomvents, this is very different from "forfeiting rights". In any case this does not appear to be from the Adsense TOS. The equivalent section there is:

8. No Guarantee. Google makes no guarantee regarding the level of impressions of Ads or clicks on any Ad or Referral Button, the timing of delivery of such impressions and/or clicks, the completion of Referral Events, or the amount of any payment to be made to You under this Agreement. In addition, for the avoidance of doubt, Google does not guarantee the Program will be operable at all times or during any down time (i) caused by outages to any public Internet backbones, networks or servers, (ii) caused by any failures of Your equipment, systems or local access services, (iii) for previously scheduled maintenance or (iv) relating to events beyond Google’s (or its wholly owned subsidiaries’) control such as strikes, riots, insurrection, fires, floods, explosions, war, governmental action, labor conditions, earthquakes, natural disasters, or interruptions in Internet services to an area where Google (or its wholly owned subsidiaries) or Your servers are located or co-located.

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