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Huge Drop In EPC Weds 23rd July 2008
Yo-yoing since maintenance Saturday
HuskyPup



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 1:23 pm on Jul 24, 2008 (gmt 0)

I've had very consistent AdSense metrics for quite a while until maintenance Saturday since when they have fluctuated quite dramatically even though my logs show remarkable consistency.

Yesterday was a completely normal day for me with traffic, clicks etc however my EPC dropped by an alarming 35.3%!

So far today it appears to have returned to normal levels, fingers crossed.

Has anyone else see such anomallies since the maintenance?

 

HuskyPup



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 4:03 pm on Jul 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

coachm

Ah, there's your problem you THINK that spending your time staring at your stats each hour is redress.

You make a tremendous amount of assumptions without knowing one single thing about me, my sites and what I actually do!

Wrong, completely and utterly wrong, I usually come here during a coffee break for a few minutes to catch-up and what may or may not be happening.

If you worked for google, you'd want to know that. You don't I don't. Who cares? What use is this?

It's a bit pointless explaining the obvious surely?

Play_Bach

WebmasterWorld Senior Member play_bach us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 4:35 pm on Jul 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

I'm in agreement with netmeg regarding attracting advertisers. If it's one thing I've noticed over the last four years with AdSense, it's been the decline of 'quality' advertisers (not keyword driven mindless eBay/Yahoo style ads) showing on my sites. Getting advertisers over to the Content Network and keeping them happy is paramount.

signor_john



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 5:05 pm on Jul 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

If it's one thing I've noticed over the last four years with AdSense, it's been the decline of 'quality' advertisers (not keyword driven mindless eBay/Yahoo style ads) showing on my sites.

I'm seeing better ads than I did a few years ago, when a lot of ads seemed to be for "thin affiliates" and such. On the flip side, bigger advertisers seem to be running a lot more display ads in my sector these days, and they're paying decent CPMs for those ads. I'd guess that, on the whole, advertisers are becoming more savvy about how to meet specific goals in the most cost-effective way.

Here's something else to think about: According to an article [adage.com] that was published today in ADVERTISING AGE, "measured-media growth has pretty much ground to a halt" as marketers boost their expenditures for Web development, public relations, database marketing, etc. while reducing budgets for paid advertising. The article points out that ad spending among the top 100 U.S. advertisers grew only 1.7% last year, and the situation is comparable in the UK. (Caveat: The article focuses on spending habits of the top 100 advertisers, and AdSense obviously isn't geared to the likes of P&G or General Motors.)

coachm

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 5:17 pm on Jul 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

It's a bit pointless explaining the obvious surely?

I suppose this whole thread, and all the threads about lower income, speculation, glitches, and so on are equally obvious -- it certainly is to me.

I figure there's value in explaining, at least to those who are beginners, what might be obvious to me, unless of course, one is incapable of explaining, in which case a response like "doesn't everyone know", or "Isn't it obvious" is good cover.

So, apart from comfort what is the point of these discussions? Does it actually help you make money?

And back to my original point, why do you think that bad data is a good thing to rely on for your business?

It's your business. But I am curious as to why people who know better -- smart people like yourself, believe that, for example, the first few hours of statistics mean anything at ALL.

...maybe the answer is "obvious"?

vordmeister

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 6:49 pm on Jul 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

So, apart from comfort what is the point of these discussions? Does it actually help you make money?

I've found the expansion of this thread most useful - it's not just me. This is the first time I've been affected by one of these drops reported on threads here, and that others have been bashed gives some hope that things will improve (given reports from previous threads like this).

So you will agree much more useful than going around being a troll.

Though from the plus side the last couple of weeks tell me I should pay attention to the diversification thing. I've had a whole load of enquiries about direct advertising. Most just want links, but a few seem happy with your actual banners with redirects. The occasional huge dip is good motivation to start balancing out advertising income.

So yes, this thread probably will help me make money. But money isn't everything.

nondescriptive

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 9:47 pm on Jul 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

My days of relying on adsense for any sort of stability are gone, have been for some time now.. but I've decided to completely pull out mentally. I'll leave my sites registered and collect whatever they send for as long as they send it. I'm not updating, checking my stats more than bi monthly and just not thinking about it in general anymore... and especially not counting on them to send anything at all.. I've switched the direct deposit to our family savings account. To think that less than three weeks ago I thought I hit the big time, pulling in just short of enough to be in the "UPS" club if it's still called that or in existence.

I'm not just upset about this drop, which isn't the first I've been through ( I know HuskyPup was in the same boat in Oct 07 ). Basically it had gotten to the point where I am working for Google, and who would work for a company that cuts pay without warning. I suppose also that Adsense had me sidetracked more and more over time as well, as I've created sites "for people" with nothing more than income in mind.

Anyways <sigh> ... this is it! Best of luck to you all.

HuskyPup



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 2:15 am on Jul 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

pulling in just short of enough to be in the "UPS" club if it's still called that or in existence.

Oh those were the days...errr...when would that have been, 2-3 years ago? I loved it when I saw that man walking up the drive:-)

The AdSense "game" is worse than politicians with short memories!

Of one thing I'm reasonably confident, that the Google AdSense team hate seeing threads like this because it makes them realise they've adjusted something too much and that they need to review whatever it is they have over-tweaked.

At least we are in a better situation than many in the search forum wondering where all their traffic has gone to for the past couple of months!

tim222

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 3:28 am on Jul 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

HuskyPup, this has happened to you so many times, that I don't understand why you still refer to it as a "glitch" or a hiccup. If that happened once and then was corrected soon afterward, I would agree.

I think you're correct in that updates have something to do with it. That's probably when they roll out new code.

I don't think the AdSense swings are a reflection on your abilities as a webmaster or a businessman, but it looks to me like the AdSense-type revenue model isn't working as well for your site as it is working for others.

HuskyPup



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 1:22 pm on Jul 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

this has happened to you so many times,

Actually no, I have had quite a stable period for some time, the problem seems to be at the AdSense end when they roll out something new/adjusted/updated. It just does not function correctly for some of us and seems to take ages to get back to "normal".

Advertisers, especially not in my niche, do not change their bids on an almost daily basis therefore it is something/one else doing it.

I suppose it is smart-pricing because nothing else would account for the fact that an EPC can fall and rise so dramatically sometimes yet for other periods be completely stable and predictable.

it looks to me like the AdSense-type revenue model isn't working as well for your site as it is working for others.

When it's working "normal" it's fine, it's the occasional glitch that suddenly reduces earnings by up to 50% I, and I suppose a few others, do not like because we know that this is not normal yet G refuses to sort out a problem of their own creation.

It just harms their credibility at the end of the day amongst those publishers affected.

con771

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 2:03 pm on Jul 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

Yes Something is seriousally wrong. I had the worse week in almost 2 years last week and this week is looking even worse

coachm

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 2:21 pm on Jul 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

If I can make quick comments for those who are new, or who's beliefs aren't in cement.

Actually no, I have had quite a stable period for some time, the problem seems to be at the AdSense end when they roll out something new/adjusted/updated. It just does not function correctly for some of us and seems to take ages to get back to "normal".

Normal changes. For others unfamiliar people in adsense tend to say something is wrong, or "not normal" when their revenues drop. When they go up, they don't say that.

Advertisers, especially not in my niche, do not change their bids on an almost daily basis therefore it is something/one else doing it.

Again, for others, there is no realistic, practical way for Husky to know this. I bid in adwords and I don't know what my competitors are doing. Second, perhaps someone can explain to Husky or new folks how a single change in one bidder can cause huge changes in payou.

I suppose it is smart-pricing because nothing else would account for the fact that an EPC can fall and rise so dramatically sometimes yet for other periods be completely stable and predictable.

It's could be smart pricing, and if so, then it's tied to Husky's site. It's not random, or an error. Although since we don't know how smart pricing works, I guess it could be google screwing up.

When it's working "normal" it's fine, it's the occasional glitch that suddenly reduces earnings by up to 50% I, and I suppose a few others, do not like because we know that this is not normal yet G refuses to sort out a problem of their own creation.

Instability and fluctuations in earnings IS normal. It's statistically certain that there will be wide fluctuations for some over some periods of time, simply by CHANCE. Some will make more for no reason. Some will make less.

But that's not likely the complete answer. Your earnings are determined by a bunch of stuff, including things that are completely hidden. For example, if your demographics change. If people start arriving at your site from different spots. If you start getting more from live search than google, or vice versa. What a single major advertiser might be doing. Even temporary changes in the speed your site loads or the Internet paths to your site.

...and on and on.

If you don't understand these things, you think something is "wrong" at their end. If you can't tolerate wild fluctuations, and downward trends as the market has adjusted to the new technology and ads, get out before you completely lose your mind.

Old Internet revenues fluctuated and tumbled. Banner ads dropped by a factor of 5 or 6 in less than two years, for example. It's NORMAL.

I hope this helps newer people with open minds.

[edited by: jatar_k at 3:52 pm (utc) on July 29, 2008]
[edit reason] fixed formatting [/edit]

HuskyPup



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 2:43 pm on Jul 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

coachm

You cannot possibly states facts about my earnings, sites or industry without knowing about them. I could just as easily make bold claims and assertions about your sites without any valid metrics.

You do not have the information I am privy to, all you want to do is win a discussion to fit in with the way you see things.

There is absolutely no point in making any further views if all you are going to do is shoot them down with absolutely certainty that you are the font of ALL AdSense information.

Than again..you may be correct!

Just to keep the balance for those of you with an open mind:-)

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 2:46 pm on Jul 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

yikes, someone needs to correct their formatting there...

(coachm, I don't really get why you are going after HP so relentlessly; if you don't see the value of the thread, nobody's forcing you to read or participate in it)

coachm

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 4:50 pm on Jul 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

(coachm, I don't really get why you are going after HP so relentlessly; if you don't see the value of the thread, nobody's forcing you to read or participate in it)

I'm not. Like I said, I'm more interested in helping newer or less knowledgable people learn about how adsense works, because it's a really skewed view here. People post to complain a lot more and a lot more loudly than those that are happy.

There's a lot of newer folks posting here, as the old guard have left. Huskypup's posts are the most frequent and memorable with vague theories about glitches, and mistakes, and other troubles at the plex, which are speculations related as fact.

I'd like to encourage people to gather real data properly then make decisions and act on things, rather than do what husky does.

Just trying to balance things, but I have little time left, so off I go.

tim222

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 6:21 pm on Jul 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

Actually no, I have had quite a stable period for some time, the problem seems to be at the AdSense end when they roll out something new/adjusted/updated. It just does not function correctly for some of us and seems to take ages to get back to "normal".

Well here's the thing. I don't think that something which is affected to the tune of 50% by an update can be considered "stable." My revenue has been stable (usually rises a few percent per month) ever since May 2007, when they dumped all those MFA's. For whatever reason, AdSense seems to work consistently with my site. I mean month-to-month, since the day-to-day revenue can vary quite a bit.

Here's another thought - I think you mentioned other pay-per-click programs. AdSense is the only PPC program that I use, although I do have other PPA affiliate programs that work well for me. Is it possible that AdSense punishes those who are using Yahoo Publisher Network or some other competitor to AdSense?

signor_john



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 7:35 pm on Jul 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

AdSense is the only PPC program that I use, although I do have other PPA affiliate programs that work well for me. Is it possible that AdSense punishes those who are using Yahoo Publisher Network or some other competitor to AdSense?

I don't use YPN, but I do use affiliate links and a display-ad network's ads on the same pages where I use AdSense, and my AdSense EPC is up about one-third from the same time last year.

tim222

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 8:31 pm on Jul 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

I don't use YPN, but I do use affiliate links and a display-ad network's ads on the same pages where I use AdSense, and my AdSense EPC is up about one-third from the same time last year.

Well that shoots my theory all to hell :)

andrewshim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 10:19 pm on Jul 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

the old guard have left

ahhh. the old guard. I figure folks like Hobbs, OptiRex, Pengi, Trannack and Anne have made their millions and are now sipping pina coladas on Adsense Island.

Play_Bach

WebmasterWorld Senior Member play_bach us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 5:48 am on Jul 30, 2008 (gmt 0)

Earnings today are the highest since December 2007. Nice to see numbers like this again. Thanks Google!

Hobbs

WebmasterWorld Senior Member hobbs us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 9:42 am on Jul 30, 2008 (gmt 0)

My post is only one page back, I'm still here.

There is no AdSense old/new guard, AdSense hasn't changed that much is the past few years. As for old timers, some left after differences with a Mod, many are still here under new names, some are just turned off by the repetition & noise, the rest are still here .. Sadly, one of them recently passed away.

There is no successful AdSenser that was not a successful web publisher first, if you have a site with lots of good traffic, only then you stand an AdSense chance

Sometimes the number of posts gets confused with success/wisdom or knowledge while in many cases it's the other way around, case and point, all you need to know is already in the AdSense help section, many people don't read, and many of the few that read don't learn, that's why reading and posting volume is no indicator IMHO.

andrewshim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 2:11 pm on Jul 30, 2008 (gmt 0)

There is no AdSense old/new guard

I figure he was referring to the ol timers who used to rock this forum with wit and know-how. Somehow WebmasterWorld is missing that magical "je ne sais quoi" now.

Sadly, one of them recently passed away.

And speaking of "je ne sais quoi", what a co-incidence I found for this definition and example for the phrase (the old timers will understand):

Je ne sais quoi : Used to indicate a "certain something," as in "I really like Ann. She has a certain je ne sais quoi that I find very appealing."

This place is a whole lot better for all the help she offered so selflessly. She was a wonderfully kind soul. At least she will be where the eCPM is ALWAYS sky high...

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 8:16 pm on Aug 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

Speaking as someone that used to post how-to's here all the time I can give you a clue why some old-time AdSense users shy away is the constant complaints about AdSense and all the tinfoil hat theories swirling around attempting to explain everything.

When someone gives advice on how to fix a problem or tries to explain how it works they don't expect to get branded as Google apologists, Google fanboy, or whatever else gets kicked their way.

It gets real old real fast so the advanced AdSensers go away and the forum loses out on new innovations, ideas and techniques from those really pushing the AdSense envelope.

HuskyPup



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 3:07 am on Aug 3, 2008 (gmt 0)

Hi iBILL

Would you care to write this in an understandable English?

It makes no sense to me and I do not worry about saying it to you!

Hey, maybe WebmasterWorld et al is all so old school it's not required any more?

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 5:36 am on Aug 3, 2008 (gmt 0)

Would you care to write this in an understandable English?

I'm pretty sure I did the first time.

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 2:45 pm on Aug 4, 2008 (gmt 0)

You did, but here's the boiled down version -

1. Someone complains that their AdSense performance is poor or declining, stating it must be Google's money-grubbing that caused it.

2. Experienced AdSensers offer multiple explanations as to what might be causing the problem, few or none of which involve any conspiracy on the part of Google - sometimes even having the audacity to point the finger at something the OP has done or expected.

3. Experienced AdSenser is derided as a Google apologist, possibly an undercover Google employee, and all around traitor.

Doesn't tend to make people enthusiastic about actually helping.

tim222

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 7:18 pm on Aug 4, 2008 (gmt 0)

Doesn't tend to make people enthusiastic about actually helping.

Personally, I think conspiracy theories are more interesting than rational explanations.

FWIW, I unerstood what Bill said. He's probably correct.

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 8:28 pm on Aug 4, 2008 (gmt 0)

Personally, I think conspiracy theories are more interesting than rational explanations.

They would be if someone would come up with some new ones! I'm still waiting for the "Aliens Ate My AdSense Earnings" post.

security56

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 8:47 pm on Aug 4, 2008 (gmt 0)

OMG I think Bush is stealing my adsense money hehehe

But yea there some of us that complain about adense weird ups and downs mostly down.

And there some of you that try to put the blame on us, That's why we see you guys a Adsense Asskissers lol oops fanboys hehe, Specially when some of us know what a regular adsense up and down is. And we complain is for a reason whether is new algo which we are not aware of ect...

May I suggest to you fanboys in case of putting the blame on us for complaining about adsense earnings, help us tell us "listen you might be loosing adsense earnings because adsense is changing their algos aka getting greety and thats why. Not your typical answer well "I am doing great so it must be you with the problem" see the difference ;)

In anycase just leave us have one thread to complain about our earnings and you guys that have nothing to say other then "is you fault" go start your own post about your love with adsense lol

One thing if Adsense would be more open about their algo we prob would complain less, just tell us your site sucks today but it don't suck tomorrow, that's why your earning fluctuates. But I still believe no matter how much you change your algo a 50% of earning drop in one month to another after having consistence earning has to do with more then just a simple adsense new algo but more with adsense greed. That's corporate America like it or not.

signor_john



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 9:09 pm on Aug 4, 2008 (gmt 0)

But I still believe no matter how much you change your algo a 50% of earning drop in one month to another after having consistence earning has to do with more then just a simple adsense new algo but more with adsense greed. That's corporate America like it or not.

If the problem is simply "AdSense greed," why does that greed hurt only some publishers? What are you doing that makes Google hate you enough to show its corporate greedy side by slashing your AdSense earnings by 50% in a month's time?

Accusing Google of greed and using juvenile insults like "fanboy" won't restore your missing earnings. What can you do at your end to make your site(s) more like those of publishers who aren't victims of "AdSense greed"?

security56

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 10:31 pm on Aug 4, 2008 (gmt 0)

Well signor you bring a lot of great point which i would like to elaborate more.

First "why do this big ups and downs affect some and no every one"
Well Google is not stupid imagine how it would be if it affected every then there will be no one to defend Google and create confusion. This gives Google a bypass since is obvious "it's just some people having the problem so they must be doing something wrong" You see what I mean.

Now the term "fanboy" I hate to brake it to you but this word is use all over the internet, people use it to speak of those that see nothing wrong with a company or a product even if everyone else does. And is use not only by people in forums such as this, but by top news sites.

Now this notion that instead of bitching about my earning why don't I do something about it. Which is one of the top comebacks that you fanboys have. Tell me this then why should I, when the site was just fine before and I made no changes to be affected by 50%. Explain that one, if you can. Although It's only Google that can.

And why don't they, simple because they really have no real explanation other then being greedy or they just don't care to tell us.

This what gets me lol, you guys come here with "why don't you ask those that are not affected to help us." :) What is your answer lol let me tell you I seeing it a million times. "Well I won't help you because all you do is bitch about it so there." Which leaves me to the conclusion that either they are lying about their earnings and they like everyone else don't really know and are just lucky that they are not affected.

So go fanboys bring out your poms poms :) now that's juvenile lol

signor_john



 
Msg#: 3706233 posted 10:56 pm on Aug 4, 2008 (gmt 0)

Now this notion that instead of bitching about my earning why don't I do something about it. Which is one of the top comebacks that you fanboys have. Tell me this then why should I, when the site was just fine before and I made no changes to be affected by 50%.

Have you you considered the possibility that, as Google and its advertisers acquire more experience and data, they're getting better at allocating ads and setting prices? AdSense has evolved quite a bit since the network was launched five years ago, and one common factor in most of those changes has been Google's desire to deliver better value to advertisers. Smart pricing, unlimited domain filters for advertisers, higher standards for "valid clicks," closing of click arbitrageurs' accounts, continuing pressure on marginal advertisers, etc. are good for the health of the AdSense network, but that doesn't mean all publishers will benefit. Some publishers will be hurt. If you're one of them, complaining about "AdSense greed" and sneering at "fanboys" won't put money in your pocket.

Change happens. Evolution is unavoidable. Adapt or die.

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