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This 58 message thread spans 2 pages: < < 58 ( 1 [2]     
What does an MFA Website look like?
pageoneresults




msg:3688705
 6:46 pm on Jul 2, 2008 (gmt 0)

I need to make sure my perceptions are correct. When you visit a site and see three AdSense units blended into areas that are typically reserved for on site navigation, would you consider that a Made for AdSense Website?

What do you feel "makes up" a website that is MFA (Made for AdSense)? What causes you to make that immediate determination and in many cases hit your back button?

 

purplecape




msg:3691299
 8:58 pm on Jul 5, 2008 (gmt 0)

Those are Made for SpamSense, a totally different topic. I'm referring to what could be classified as a good site that has maybe implemented their AdSense a bit too aggressively and is now causing a loss in traffic and not a gain.

You know, this is an interesting point, but not at all what you seemed to be asking for when you started the thread.... I took part in the discussion, posted what I thought, and now I'm feeling a bit ambushed. Maybe I'm the only one, but if you have an axe to grind, I prefer it out in the open from the beginning.

pageoneresults




msg:3691310
 9:16 pm on Jul 5, 2008 (gmt 0)

Oh wait, I didn't mean it that way, my apologies. I wanted to give those a clear label moving forward. Again, it wasn't meant how it seems to have been taken. I've clearly stepped into an area that is very sensitive. So please, if I say something that upsets you, it wasn't meant to be intentional, that is not me. Well...

Remember, we're discussing what some of us "perceive" to be an MFA. My original request was to get some feedback to make sure I was on target with the whole three ad unit scenario and I think I am. Most would agree that particular layout would fall under the MFA umbrella.

Ah, the AdSense Natives are restless... Let me send out some smoke signals...0...0...0... ;)

<added> Just checked your profile, yikes, you're a real AdSense Native [webmasterworld.com]! I better call in me calvary.

Maybe I'm the only one, but if you have an axe to grind, I prefer it out in the open from the beginning.

Nope, the first axe I would grind would be with Google for providing the tools and not keeping on top of how they are being utilized. If it were up to them, everyone would have a Google AdSense Template to work with out of the box. ;)

purplecape




msg:3691406
 1:51 am on Jul 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

No hard feelings, and let me be clear on one thing--my own site isn't one you would consider an MFA site (it predates AdSense by several years, has no more than one adblock on a page, doesn't do the ATF thing, etc.). I just would have liked to have been told a bit more about YOUR parameters when you asked your original question.

CainIV




msg:3691678
 6:02 pm on Jul 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

I have always felt that MFA is all about intention. It's very easy to load a page and see what the intention is by viewing the ad placement and the type of content they write.

To me, visitor is first - and navigation should be clear and easily labeled and not mixed up with ads. That's a green flag for me.

The content should be informative and unique where possible.

The user should (on informational pages) be able to begin reading content on page load, even if there is a content ad.

I have a website that has one square content ad per page, in the content, to the right. That is all, one square, and the user can read the content right when the page loads. To be that kind of placement does not interfere and performs best for me.

pageoneresults




msg:3691690
 6:12 pm on Jul 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

I have always felt that MFA is all about intention. It's very easy to load a page and see what the intention is by viewing the ad placement and the type of content they write.

I think we're all a bit biased here! We see our sites day in and day out. We "know" what we are doing and we understand what is happening when we visit a website and see certain things. Me Mom doesn't! All she sees are ads and now that I've showed her quick access to her back button, she has a little wear spot there on her mouse. ;)

It really does come down to intention and perceived intention.

So now you have to look at your audience, how do they perceive the implementation? A sure sign that something is wrong there would be your statistics. How are your visitor return rates? How about time on page? How about pageviews? How many pageviews per visit? And quite a few others "signals" that maybe you've slipped a little and now fall into the MFA category. While that may not be a bad thing for many, there are some of us who perceive those a bit differently and will Back our way to the next results as quickly as we found our way in.

Now, what did that one little routine do to you? Not a whole lot. But, take that and multiply it by thousands of visitors and there is a pattern. Too many of those Back routines and you will receive negative points. If your bounce rate is too high because people are finding more ads and not enough useful content in their face, you have potential challenges afoot.

I think we can safely say that there is a broad spectrum and very a diverse perception of MFA. If we were to use a sliding scale analogy with anything on the left in the green being MFA and then as you move to the right into the red it becomes more of a Made for SpamSense implementation.

purplecape




msg:3691694
 6:23 pm on Jul 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

OK. What if we turn the question around:

p1results, what does a site look like that IS using AdSense ads but is clearly not MFA?

Lorel




msg:3691695
 6:26 pm on Jul 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

If I get more than 50% AdSense in my Viewport, C'Ya!

They basically throw things so far out of whack with their navigation themes and ad unit placement that the visitor is confused and ends up clicking on an ad most of the time ....

I feel the same way and I especially dislike seeing ads above the content--which betrays the real purpose of the site.

pageoneresults




msg:3691696
 6:29 pm on Jul 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

p1results, what does a site look like that IS using AdSense ads but is clearly not MFA?

Ah, but I thought I've given enough of my perception, yes? Remember, I need to see things first before I can even have that initial reaction and perception. I'm a visual person. I'm willing to bet that much of what I perceive probably applies to quite a few websites belonging to those at WebmasterWorld and many other places. I might be a bit outside the norm but after seeing the replies here, I think I am the norm.

All I need to do is look at it for 3-5 seconds and my perception is pretty much set in stone. Many of us are a "visual" lot and we don't care what's under the ads, we really don't. So, if you're ads are in my face, above my fold, above the content, blended in with "normal" navigation areas, you've just slid right over to the red area of my slider analogy above.

purplecape




msg:3691709
 7:37 pm on Jul 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

Since you've already told us so much about what you think, I'm asking you to complete the picture. Are you concerned that you've revealed too much already?

Instead, you're telling us again what you don't like to see. What's wrong with telling us what is OK by you?

Or shall I just try to paraphrase? A non-MFA site is one that doesn't have ads above the fold or above the content, and that doesn't blend them with "normal" navigation areas. So a site with ads next to or under the content that can't be confused with navigation elements is OK with you.

Do you agree or do you want to add some further qualifications?

iamlost




msg:3691715
 8:05 pm on Jul 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

I find it amusing that you (pageoneresults) consider right-hand navigation not "highly visible" and "off the beaten path". Or that apparently it is OK for a blog but not a 'site'.

I first tested RH nav in 1997 and it became my standard in 1999. It had nada to do with AdSense, still some years away. Rather it had to do with my interpretations of the findings of folks like Jakob Neilsen and the first Standford eye tracking study, confirmed by my tests and the subsequent Standford-Poynter Project. Further, it was not based primarily on first glance, i.e. golden triangle, but on a holistic page experience, especially what brought them back after that first scan.

Tradition is as often a rut as it is a guide.

signor_john




msg:3691716
 8:05 pm on Jul 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

I have always felt that MFA is all about intention. It's very easy to load a page and see what the intention is by viewing the ad placement and the type of content they write.

Bingo. If it looks and smells like garbage, it probably is garbage.

Seb7




msg:3692036
 10:11 am on Jul 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

MFA = Very unuseful website.

HiHo




msg:3692268
 3:13 pm on Jul 7, 2008 (gmt 0)


What do you feel "makes up" a website that is MFA (Made for AdSense)? What causes you to make that immediate determination and in many cases hit your back button?

pageoneresults, honestly I do not really care when they fake google adsense as navigation.

what really irritates me is when between the title and the content you have nearly 200, 300px wasted in an ad (adsense included): basically what i see in a normal resolution is just ads.

I see sometimes portals structured like:

Leaderboard
Logo
Top Navigation
More ads
Page title
Again more ads
[---------- here i need to scroll down ----------]
content
ads
footer
ads

blurblade




msg:3694033
 4:21 am on Jul 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

i think all sites that have AdSense on SHOULD do everything as best as they can to become "MFA" sites.

I see AdSense as something created to fit as best as possible to any site with any type of content (except for sites that have "immoral" and illegal content of course). Adsense does not only help our sites making money but also help enriching our site content on each page, in other words, help our sites even more useful by providing information that compliments perfectly with the the main site content. Adsense is not just ads but great content resources.

I think that all sites with adsense on should do everything the can at least in the layout structure to be MFA sites to take all advantages that Adsense has to offer, period. on the other hand, AdSense is MFAWAWYWAMWHWAHW - "made for all websites, any websites, your website and my website and his website and her website" ha! beat that!

Some sites have more written "content" some doesnt; but that has almost nothing to do with the quality of the site in many cases. For example, if I have a site about cocktails, each page has one recipe, how much content do I really want to have on each page? should I write a whole lot of garbage just to make that site look "not MFA"? or should I keep it as simple as possible and have the information just right to avoid confusions? perhaps adding one picture for each page at most? with all that, shouldnt I just let adsense to do its job to help the users finding where they can find the best deals for the stuff they need to start their cocktail business?

Adsense + your site = a tango! a beautiful one too =)

what's wrong with making MFA sites? i strongly believe that any well thought out websites - websites that are created for max benefits for the users, with any length of text lines, any style of navigation design etc, have great potential to become a good MFA site.

I have seen so many sites that have paragraphs and paragraphs of "content" that basically say nothing. I get annoyed every time i see those sites because they try to waste so much of my time, electricity sometimes papers and ink etc AND hope for me to click on their ads. no way!

i think as long as the site provides good information, in long or short writing and use adsense to provide related useful information to the users, then it is a good site. In many cases, short content is much better than the longer ones.

MFA sites are good =D

when it comes to a site that has no content at all but adsense, it's called cheating! I am against sites like that.

spots for this spots for that:

i dont think there are "spots" that are meant to be reserved for anything in the browser, let it be navigation menu or anything else.

Depends on the purpose of the site, the content type of the site etc, it can make more sense to have the navigation on top, left, right, bottom or even in a pop up window. that's the beauty of the web, they are not traditional printed media like the books or magazines (and havent you seen printed media in creative moods? they sometimes do such great job delivering an idea, concept, message or whatever using untraditional design methods).

functions should always be the first and only priority when design a site no matter what you want to put where. We have java scripts, php, flash, php, gif, jpg, movies and so much more so that we can be as creative as we can - thus deliver the information in the most efficient ways possible.

so now i am making my post too long, this is not a MFAP made for adsense posting, nope, i dont agree.

icedowl




msg:3694039
 4:33 am on Jul 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

blurblade, not to blow your lovely bubble, but most of us around here consider a MFA to be a very bad type of website. One that when the ads are removed, there is nothing left on the page to be of value or interest to anyone or anything.

blurblade




msg:3694051
 4:47 am on Jul 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

i agree with you, icedowl:

"when it comes to a site that has no content at all but adsense, it's called cheating! I am against sites like that."

"I have seen so many sites that have paragraphs and paragraphs of "content" that basically say nothing. I get annoyed every time i see those sites because they try to waste so much of my time, electricity sometimes papers and ink etc AND hope for me to click on their ads. no way!"

dibbern2




msg:3694059
 5:08 am on Jul 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

most of us around here consider a MFA to be a very bad type of website

Sez who? Show me the numbers.

blurblade




msg:3694085
 6:02 am on Jul 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

how do you guys like this: AEW
AdSense Enriched Website
(correct english?)
lol

Hobbs




msg:3694287
 12:18 pm on Jul 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

It is really futile trying to obtain a consensus on anything in forums.

An MFA is a web site I would never link to.

An MFA is a site with little or no content or value other than displaying ads.

If you fill your pages with ads, you'd better have the kind of content quality and quantity to support it, otherwise you're an MFA in my eyes.

The 'fill' percentage is subjective, when you cross the limit you expose yourself to varying degrees of disdain, what's the limit and how much disdain? Who cares!

Miamacs




msg:3694290
 12:30 pm on Jul 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

This whole question is pretty interesting, tried answering it once or twice while making my own sites.

MFA = Very unuseful website.

pretty much what I think. anyway, took time to code so behold, my 'MFA' scale put to words ( top-bottom: high to low quality ):

- Good site, has AdSense <-- suspicious already ...[j/k]
- was put online to gain revenue
<-- ads as business model
- was optimized for ads
- ad placement in header
- ads in the footer, on the side
<-- one of my sites
- ad blocks in the content
<-- two of my sites
- ads close to interactive parts
<-- e.g. close to nav
- ads belnded / integrated too well ( same color, etc. )
- content section STARTS with ads
- all content is below the fold, above are the ads
- there is little content
- content is unoriginal
- content not useful ( i.e. uninformative )
- content is stolen, scraped, pirated
- content is fake
- there IS NO content
- DIVs jump up/down/under cursor with ads
- site tries to install ad/mal/spyware by default

...

There's the grey area, that's obviously over the line when it comes to ugh... 'optimizing' AdSense.

And yet sometimes I've found that even such sites can carry info I'd NOT have found elsewhere. Needless to say I hit back every time I land within the red zone.

we all know that what we call MFA is more like made 'only' for or even made only *of* of AdSense. Perception is subjective, based on identifying intents, effort, content, ratios, volumes.

within a few months of intensive net use, many people can tell sites apart within 3 seconds. The rest will never be able to.

ken_b




msg:3694477
 3:31 pm on Jul 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

I'm reminded of the saying "one mans trash is another mans treasure".

zett




msg:3694714
 7:23 pm on Jul 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

Miamacs, good post, and nice formatting, too. :-) Happy to see that my sites are purely in the "black" area.

Seb7




msg:3694841
 9:06 pm on Jul 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

I like to add that MFA is not a very good term at all.

I'n sure lots of web developers are buiding and have built very good websites with their first thoughts being; mmm.. and then I could earn lots of money from Google advertisements.

martinibuster




msg:3695072
 2:41 am on Jul 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

I agree, MFA is a poor phrase but we're stuck with it.

ArtistMike




msg:3695079
 2:49 am on Jul 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

Made for AdSense site is one that has pages that have 3 full screen - link banners - stacked on top of each other, and then 3 full screen - banner ad blocks - stacked on top of each other ... that is all before you get to the body of the text on the web page. The text consists of 3 lines of text that is about a topic.

dhaliwal




msg:3696468
 5:07 pm on Jul 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

i just changed the ad unit from the content to the LEFT SIDE BAR (the place where navigation was). I had no option, cause the click through was as low as 1.5%. That too since the mid of June.

ArtistMike




msg:3696702
 9:29 pm on Jul 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

i just changed the ad unit from the content to the LEFT SIDE BAR
==========================================

And this has what to do with MFA sites?

dhaliwal




msg:3697193
 6:26 pm on Jul 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

for ArtistMike

People here are saying that putting ad in the LEFT SIDE BAR (the place where navigation was) is an indication of MFA site.

This 58 message thread spans 2 pages: < < 58 ( 1 [2]
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