| 4:26 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
netmeg, farmboy, martinibuster,
thanks a lot guys. Your comments are very much appreciated.
..... my site paying anywhere from .01 to 7.00
That`s what seems to be a bit difficult to understand at times. Why such a difference?
| 4:31 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|It will give you a rough idea, but don't forget that all those ads that show up in search results aren't necessarily available for the content network. |
Bingo! Yes, yes! I left that unsaid, but I believe farmboy's suggestion is true. If your top keywords are only showing eight advertisers in Google Search, then it's very likely the competition for the same phrases in the Content Network is weaker.
Yes, Google will mix in related phrases but if the overall health of the niche is poor then the result is going to reflect that.
| 4:48 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
one kw produces 8 ads at Google.com search and 1 click for that kw only 1 cent.
At the same time another kw produces 0 ads at Google.com a 2 clicks earned 0,50 cents each.
Both are kind of low traffic sites, but the better paid site ranks on page 1, the othe somewhere in the oblivion..
| 4:58 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
There can be lots of reasons.
Depending on the traffic on the channels that you are watching when you see that $7 click, it is very possible that you are just seeing an update where the clicks and the amount do not coincide. They don't always. You hear about click dumps, but they do not always occur at the same time as the income dumps. This could also explain some of your low paying clicks. $7 clicks are extremely rare.
You can have pages that attract completely different categories of ads on the same site. Personal blogs are a great example of this. When I post a recipe on my blog, I would be shocked if any of them ever earned me more than 10 cents per click. I also posted a couple of times about a medical condition affecting a family member. Those pages get few visitors and even fewer clicks, but when one does pop up, they always pay more than $1. There are also a lot of pages that fill in the gaps between the two extremes pretty well. Other sites with a better focus have much less of a range, but it can still be all over the place.
| 5:04 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
How do you know the information in your last post, about what different keywords are paying you? The only way I can see getting that info is to follow a search onto your own site, then to click on the ads. If so, you can expect less than 1 cent per click sometime soon.
| 5:07 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
my $7 example is a very static low traffic site where clicks start at 1 cent with everything in between.
| 5:32 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Nevertheless, unless you are talking low like one or two users a day, you wouldn't know which keyword.
I advise you to go read the AdWords forum to learn a little bit more about how it works.
I'm a long time AdWords advertiser. If I'm bidding, say, $1.00 max bid for a keyword in the content network (which I wouldn't be, but just as a f'rinstance) I won't necessarily pay that $1.00. I won't necessarily pay anywhere near that, and I won't necessarily pay the same price for the same keyword on your site and another site. Moreover, my competition, who might be bidding only $.50 for that keyword, might actually end up paying more than I do for the same click your site. There are *many* factors that go into how much a click is worth. Quality Score on the advertising side, Smart Pricing on the publishing side, available ad space on the site, position, how many competing ads and what they're bidding at that particular time (many advertisers change their bids at different times of day - did you know that?)
Knowing what I know about how AdWords works, which is a lot (I'm a GAP) but not everything, I would never block an advertiser *only* for .01 clicks, because there's nothing to say that the next click for that ad isn't worth a couple bucks.
| 5:36 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
netmeg, brilliant explanation. You're on a roll! :)
| 6:08 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
thanks for pointing at the advertisers view.
How would you play it in case you know, that my publication is among the top 3 authority sites if not the No.1 that everyone sees who is looking for a special destination.
Would you accept a minimum price of let`s say $0.20 ? Would you consider monthly, annual deals for steady ads instead of adwords dance ?
| 6:09 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|That`s what seems to be a bit difficult to understand at times. Why such a difference? |
Suppose I own an auto paint shop and I want more customers. I give you a box of flyers and ask you to walk through a neighborhood giving one to each household.
The households with a new car in the drive probably aren't in need of my services. There is always the chance the residents know someone who needs a paint job, but the odds are slim.
The households with an old car in need of paint are in need of my services.
The households with the older cars have more value to me than the households with new cars, so I'm going to pay you more for each flyer you deliver to the households with older cars.
Of course, that's just one aspect of how a click value is determined.
| 6:17 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
As an advertiser (actually as someone who advertises for clients) I care about conversions, pretty much above all else.
When I'm starting a new Content Network campaign, I will start low - usually around $.20 or $.25. Note, that is the *max* I am willing to pay, it doesn't mean that Google will charge me that amount.
After the campaign has been running a while, I look at the cost I've actually been paying, the positions I've had (if I have Google Analytics, I can see which positions perform the best for me, it's not always #1-3) and look at conversions and ROI. Then I decide if I want to raise my minimum bid, or site target the sites that are doing well. I so far haven't had occasion to contact the publisher directly.
For that matter, something I've always kind of wondered is when exactly does Google determine what a click is worth? Is it before the click occurs, as the click occurs, or after the click occurs? We all know about delays in our stats - are any of them because Google takes some time to calculate how much we get paid for that click before we see it in our account?
(thanks, martinibuster - I been doing a lot of studyin' on it, ork ork)
| 6:41 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
what you say makes sense, but that example does not explain why the very same click product gets purchased on one day for $7 and the next day for $0.01
| 7:05 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
>>>does not explain why the very same click product gets purchased on one day for $7 and the next day for $0.01
Here's the short explanation: It's not the same click.
This is a more detailed explanation:
1. Geographic location of the click matters
Local advertisers may be bidding higher from different regions. A click coming from Podunk, Oklahoma may not be worth as much as a click from Miami, Florida. Also fluctuates from country to country. The geolocation of a clicker greatly matters because many advertisers target local or to specific markets, as well as exclude markets. Location matters because different levels of competition are at play.
2. Pool of Advertisers Fluctuates
You will never know all the advertisers on your site. Never. Because of your geotargeting, even with proxies, the pool is constantly in flux.
New advertisers are constantly coming online and others are leaving. Some aren't aware they are on the content network, others are very aware and bid accordingly. The money thrown at your site goes up and down accordingly.
Keywords used to access your site can dictate what ads are shown. A user surfing to your site on the back of a lucrative but rare keyword phrase will see high paying ads once they hit your page. A surfer hitting your site on more popular phrases that convert less well will be shown cheap or less relevant ads.
[edited by: martinibuster at 7:15 pm (utc) on May 28, 2008]
| 7:09 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|You will never know all the advertisers on your site. Never. Because of your geotargeting, even with proxies, the pool is constantly in flux. |
Not only that, the ads YOU see on your site aren't necessarily the ads anyone else sees on your site.
Oh, we forgot to mention advertiser budget. Sometimes a lucrative bidder runs out of budget by 3pm, so the next guy slides into his spot, but he's only bidding a tenth of what the first guy is.
There's just too many variables to try to micro-analyze it. You can't do it with AdSense. If the roller coaster is too much for you, then you should use some other methods of monetization, test them, and see which works out best.
| 7:50 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|...very same click product gets purchased ... |
Click product gets purchased?
Either I'm missing your point or you might not understand how AdWords/AdSense works. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "click product" and "gets purchased?"
| 8:06 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
when an adwords client does buy some clicks, he is buying a product/service created by the publisher and Google. Or how would you classify a click ?
| 9:56 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
As everyone else has pointed out, it is not the "very same click product". A click from Romania in the late afternoon in the winter when they arrived on your site by searching on "pink elephants" has little relation to someone from Boston that arrives on that same page with a morning search on "Caribbean resort reviews". It might be the same place on the same page, but those clicks would have vastly different payouts.
| 10:07 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
i only use 1 ad unit per page and how to find out, which advertiser is the scumbag for 1 cent.
But how many do you have with ads on them?
| 10:12 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|I changed a couple of my sites to a heavier load of ad units and I haven't noticed any change in average EPC. |
I have noticed the opposite, but then again our niches are different and available inventory probably differ as do our website's which probably differ in size too. Maybe it has something to do with the ratio of demand to supply, not that it would completely stop bottom feeders in as much as raise the average EPC. One thing I do know is that time and time again I have noticed this.
[edited by: Scurramunga at 10:15 pm (utc) on May 28, 2008]
| 10:48 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|And one other point - If you have some other means of earning income from your site, it makes sense to want to get rid of ads paying 1 cent per click and use the space for something that pays more. But don't think that just because you manage to get rid of a 1 cent AdSense ad that means you're suddenly going to earn 5 cents or 10 cents per click or whatever. Your visitors might not click on the ad that would pay you 5 cents or 10 cents. |
I do not want to let visitors go off to somebody only willing to pay me that little. It's not a sign my visitor will get happy on the other side, so I'd rather have the control I need to get alternate ads if GOOG has nothing better.
It's one of the reason I've been whining a long time to get a minimum earnign per click as something we can set ourselves. I've affiliate programs earning me more than that amount per click on average, and get a decent click through rate. So they're worth more to me than the crap GOOG has among their scamming advertisers are willign to give me.
The reason I remain with adsense is that there are a few decent advertisers as well, and I want those, if they ever go away I'll dump adsense ...
For now I try not to eat up the budget of the decent advertisers in my niche too fast by giving adsense less chance of getting an ad on it. If I see too much crap ads, I reduce the chance of giving adsense a chance.
| 12:05 am on May 29, 2008 (gmt 0)|
With each 1 cent click we also aid the bottom feeders with their CTR momentum. Like any parasite, the more they feed the more they thrive.
| 12:54 am on May 29, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|With each 1 cent click we also aid the bottom feeders with their CTR momentum. |
How do you define "bottom feeders"? Is it someone that seeks to pay only 1 cent per click? Isn't that every advertiser?
Earlier in this thread netmeg reported paying 1 cent for some clicks. Is netmeg a bottom feeder?
| 1:31 am on May 29, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|How do you define "bottom feeders"? Is it someone that seeks to pay only 1 cent per click? Isn't that every advertiser? |
Obviously that depends on the click range of your advertisers or your average EPC. If my average EPC is 50, cents then a 10 cent or 5 cent click advertiser is a bottom feeder in the context of my situation. From my understanding, low paying ads in this situation can only compete with the 50 cent clicks if their CTR puts them far enough in the upper slots to be seen
| 2:23 am on May 29, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|Is it someone that seeks to pay only 1 cent per click? Isn't that every advertiser? |
It would be less achiveable for any advertiser, if only Adwords was truely based on an auction model.
| 10:44 am on May 29, 2008 (gmt 0)|
For a first time i did mess around a bit with the ad review center and blocked a bunch of advertisers that did not look like a good fit.
In addition i did set a few channels as targetable and instantly most clicks became more valuable.
So the first hours with the new settings looked good and it will be interesting to see the further impact.
| 9:44 am on May 30, 2008 (gmt 0)|
I am a "1 cent/click" advertiser, too. But look at the picture that way:
A text ad may well have between 0.15% - 0.30% CTR.
Some of my 1-cent image ads have 3.5% CTR.
Yes, i pay 1 cent/click but if you look at the picture the other side, a publisher's CTR will go up and my ad will equal to a single click worth 10 cents. Am I wrong?
Ah, it is, of course a problem if an advertiser is paying 1 cents/click and his ad has the average CTR.
| 10:27 am on May 30, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Even if it's equal to other advertisers in terms of overall revenues because of higher CTR, you end up losing more visitors for the exclusive benefit of the advertiser and Google, not yours. Most people here would rather not lose visitors for 1 cent, especially if there's a chance that visitor could be monetized with other means on the site.
Personally, I'd rather make less money than reward low ballers with hard earned traffic. Or at least be able to switch to alternate ads.
But then, alternate ads doesn't bring money to Google, so until there's a real competitor, I don't see them changing it.
| 4:47 pm on May 31, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Here's a related thread over at AdWords -
| 4:57 am on Jun 1, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|Keywords used to access your site can dictate what ads are shown. A user surfing to your site on the back of a lucrative but rare keyword phrase will see high paying ads once they hit your page. A surfer hitting your site on more popular phrases that convert less well will be shown cheap or less relevant ads. |
To elaborate because it's easy to test.
If you know which keyword phrases are bringing traffic to your site, go to Google and search for them. Compare the titles of ads that appear on your site when you enter via Google for certain keywords. It's not true all the time, but it's obvious other times.
Google takes the data from the search string users type into google.com and matches it to the ads on your site just like how it does for the Search Network/ads that appear on the RHS of Search Results Pages.
Say the user search is for red widgets. They get the Search Results Page with your site showing up. They click on the link, and then they see ads on your site for Red Widgets.
I recently got better SERPs for one keyword but my EPC went down. That keyword is a lower-paying keyword (because it's very general), i.e., widgets.
It's not the one click that gets one cent that matters. It's the average earnings per click. This is data that Google should provide in its Reports.
| 7:30 am on Jun 1, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|A user surfing to your site on the back of a lucrative but rare keyword phrase will see high paying ads once they hit your page. |
Although I am aware of this, i can't say that I have seen it in action.
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