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This 87 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 87 ( 1 [2] 3 > >     
The dreaded adsense emails are going out
soona99

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 4:57 pm on May 5, 2008 (gmt 0)

Be forewarned...the dreaded adsense emails must be going out. A family member of mine received the email today citing they would be paid up until next week but Google didn't like their "business model". She's had the account for many years without any problems at all. She was using adwords for some of her pages but otherwise they wasn't anything shady going on that we can determine. The landing pages for adwords were filled with the exact information cited in the ad. After reading the other post going on about this I've shut down all of my adwords accounts since that seems to be the one constant.

I am concerned about one thing. The email says all related accounts will be shut down also. What exactly is a related account? We don't live at the same address but once a month or every two months I've logged into her account to check on things while she's out of town. Will my accounts be linked to hers and shut down also?

 

soona99

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 3:14 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

Tropical Island:

I sent you a sticky. I'm not sure if it went through.

Tropical Island

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tropical_island us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 3:17 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

Answered

HuskyPup



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 3:24 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

Answered

Tease:-)

oddsod

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 4:03 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

The OP seemed to indicate he/she has been logging in to more than one account.

I don't believe that this is the problem. Logging into multiple accounts is not a sin. Google knows I have several accounts (setup in a way that is 100% TOS compliant) and it's not caused me a problem. Other people haven't had problems when I logged into their accounts from my IP (when they are looking to sell me a site they give me access to their Adsense login - yes, they trust me and yes, they do!)

However, it is well known that the arbitrage model is dead or, at least that Adwords-Adsense arbitrage is frowned upon at the plex. If a single Adwords landing page has Adsense ads on then it's arbitrage, plain and simple. And Google doesn't like that.

I'll call on Occam's razor [en.wikipedia.org].

[edited by: oddsod at 4:06 pm (utc) on May 6, 2008]

StoutFiles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 4:05 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

You aren't allowed to share Adsense information with anyone. Adsense is like Fight Club.

Green_Grass

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 4:21 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

"If a single Adwords landing page has Adsense ads on then it's arbitrage, plain and simple."

Yup that is straightforward. I only wish it was that simple.

It is not possible for us to rank well on all keywords. We rank well on some and buy traffic for some. If this is not O.K. let them sc*w us and be done with. I am not enjoying these threads.

We have adSense on our niche e comm site and on our info. sites (which are well apprecited by users). If that is a problem, they better tell us now. That will be appreciated.

soona99

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 5:50 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

Tropical Island was kind enough to shed some light on the situation. The banned account had two identical websites with the same content. My family member didn't think the name of the first website was general enough so she copied verbatim the entire website to another domain name. She didn't delete the first original website because it received organic traffic. The sites are 100% content with the only source of income being adsense. My question is-must you also sell something to be able to use adsense on your site? Otherwise the website might fall under the MFA type by definition? Thanks again Tropical Island for your time.

Tropical Island

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tropical_island us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 5:58 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

Happy to have had a look.

What I would also suggest you do is copy sentences from the sites in quotes & do Google searches.

With just a very cursory search I found a number of duplications that were copied directly from other non-related sites. This may also have flagged these sites for human review.

oddsod

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 6:39 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

Given arbitrage vs dup content my bet is that it's not the dupecon causing the problem with TOS (it's more likely to cause a problem with SERPs).

We rank well on some and buy traffic for some. If this is not O.K. let them sc*w us and be done with. I am not enjoying these threads.

Why would you need to buy traffic to an Adsense site unless you are selling something else on the site? If you're selling something then what's stopping you from directing that Adwords traffic to a different domain? In fact, it's probably in your interest as you can capture sales more effectively without the Adsense traffic leak.

rickhz

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 7:10 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

Why can't Google pick up a phone and contact their publishers if they believe there is a problem? Why the draconian shut down without a decent explanation, or a chance to discuss making necessary changes?

I can understand an immediate shut down in the very worst cases, but from what I read here it seems to be the norm, rather than the exception. Their current notification policy doesn't come across like "do no evil" to me.

VedranKovac

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 7:41 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

Building on this discussion - I was contemplating using a subset of wikipedia content relating to a very focused topic - would that be duplicate content? To make it more clear, let's say I build a site on islands in the Adriatic Sea and as a subsection of the site I have a hundred pages with island descriptions taken from wikipedia. Would I be allowed to display adsense on these pages. Any thoughts?

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 7:49 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

I wouldn't. If your duplicate content isn't heavily outweighed by your original content, you will not rank very highly in the SERPs, and Google might very well decide that your business model doesn't fit.

Marcia

WebmasterWorld Senior Member marcia us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 7:52 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

re using Wikipedia content, scroll down to the paragraph on scraped content

[google.com...]

They seem to be philosophically against it in principle, as far as search is concerned. But from an Adsense POV, wouldn't they look at that as being part of the publisher's business model?

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 7:52 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

Why can't Google pick up a phone and contact their publishers if they believe there is a problem? Why the draconian shut down without a decent explanation, or a chance to discuss making necessary changes?

Because that doesn't scale. I don't know what the ratio of Google employees to AdSense advertisers is, but I suspect that it will never reach a level to permit that, not even by email.

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 8:04 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

If you're selling something then what's stopping you from directing that Adwords traffic to a different domain?

If you're in the Adsense program then you're selling something too - ad space.

mbennie

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 8:11 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

1. The OP has stated in the AdWords forum that (s)he spends 5-10K/mo with AdWords on a site that sells no products and has no affiliate ads.

2. The OP said that (s)he showed "mom" how to make money online - "Hey Ma! Let me show you how to make big bucks online with something called arbitrage."

Should have taken the cue and dropped the arbitrage model when AdWords pumped your CPC to $10 in an effort to nudge you out of the arbitrage business.

oddsod

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 8:23 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

If you're in the Adsense program then you're selling something too - ad space.

I hate to be pedantic but you're not "selling space", IMHO.

You (and I) are giving Google unsold ad inventory and saying, "I'll take whatever you throw me as a reward for that space" ;)

Why the draconian shut down without a decent explanation, or a chance to discuss making necessary changes?

You know what, I'm no Google fan boy and have bashed them a fair bit in here whenever I felt it justified. But, I have to say, they have emailed me about a site that they didn't like the ad positioning on. They felt it was deceptive to visitors. I didn't argue. It was a site I had recently bought and it was a design that I inherited. I changed the design and replied to their mail ... and that was that. On another site, similarly, they emailed me about a different problem when they could have just closed the account down. My suggestion: beef up the quality of your account and they're less likely to just throw you out.

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 11:37 pm on May 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

I hate to be pedantic but you're not "selling space", IMHO.

If you were being pedantic, then you'd realize you are selling ad space - to Google.

ken_b

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ken_b us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 12:43 am on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

If you were being pedantic, then you'd realize you are selling ad space - to Google.

Maybe more like renting the space. After all, we can reclaim the space and use it for other purposes, unlike TV, radio, newspapers and magazines whose space/time once used cannot be reclaimed.

True we can't go back and reclaim the space from previous pageviews, but renting space may still be a better desrciption.

MFKaHB

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 7:03 am on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

Why can't Google pick up a phone and contact their publishers if they believe there is a problem? Why the draconian shut down without a decent explanation, or a chance to discuss making necessary changes?


Because that doesn't scale. I don't know what the ratio of Google employees to AdSense advertisers is, but I suspect that it will never reach a level to permit that, not even by email.

I think that's a matter of priorities. The ratio of employees to advertisers doesn't seem to be the issue, the ratio of employees to advertisers who seriously violate the TOS does.

Google has the money to hire the people and send an e-mail warning in advance to obvious violaters. But it is Googles choice to sack them (publishers) right away. At least, in many cases. I guess the advantage of this system is that Googles ROI stays high and publishers who are not sacked get a very decent cut.

[edited by: MFKaHB at 7:04 am (utc) on May 7, 2008]

Hobbs

WebmasterWorld Senior Member hobbs us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 8:22 am on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

Google's culture as a company has always been in favor of automating anything they can, obviously they've weighed their options and it came in favor of the current annoying customer service model, you fell in the 'acceptable loss' category that's all, as oddsod said, security comes when your account is above the acceptable loss level.

As for our own business model, we are neither selling nor renting ad space to Google, we are outsourcing the sale of ad space via Google.

[edited by: Hobbs at 8:23 am (utc) on May 7, 2008]

denisl

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 10:33 am on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

I found this comment interesting:

"adwords did offer to review her account and offer "helpful"suggestions. She didn't reply to that email"

I don't do adwords and have not received a similar email. Are those emails common common? Or was that email really saying "there is something about your site we don't like and would like to suggest changes"?

soona99

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 12:05 pm on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

I can't remember the exact wording of the adwords email only that it was something along the line of "let us help you optimize your campaigns and spend more money." Last year she received an email from an adsense advisor saying she needed to blend the ads more (isn't this against tos?) and place more ads on the pages (she uses 1 or two skyscrapers ). She did not make these changes.

Green_Grass

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 12:08 pm on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

On reading thru this thread and the last one by Fischermx, I get the impression that the adSense guys are taking a call on the 'quality of content' to which adWord traffic is going. If the content is poor or duplicate or suspect, it is getting the wack.

This is a step forward in the war against arbitrage sites and as it requires a human value judgement it is prone to error. It also shows a integration and collaboration between the adSense and adWord halves of Google, not seen before.

StoutFiles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 12:11 pm on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

Google has to weigh money and time for helping people. When you're doing something wrong, Google is even less willing to waste both money and time to write you a warning email. It's just easier on their side to cancel your account, especially if you're barely making the $100 checks.

It's not that hard to just read the TOS and then try as hard as you can to meet those standards.

ByronM

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 2:15 pm on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

Does this mean they will finally ban other commercial sites that use Adwords to drive andsense revenue such as the CSE's and Amazon and other sites?

I mean, come on.. why stop the "mom & pop" from running a profitable adsense program but let the pricegrabbers and amazons run away with it without regard?

netmeg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 2:21 pm on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

Again - scale.

soona99

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 2:22 pm on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

My personal gut feeling is Google does not want adwords landing pages to have any adsense ads on them at all. I'm also concerned that Google adsense possibly doesn't want adsense ads on content only sites regardless of where the traffic comes from. There are many small but decent sites that focus on specific topics such as cruises for example that might eventually be affected by this crackdown. It shouldn't be a requirement to run affiliate ads or directly sell something to have adsense ads on your site. Am I wrong in thinking this way?

swa66

WebmasterWorld Senior Member swa66 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 2:28 pm on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

Having dealt with abuse from a service provider side: it makes *no* sense at all to talk to the abusers. The only thing they will do with any scrape of info they find it to adapt their ways to make it harder to find them.
So I'm happy with Google booting out arbitragers, with as little as possible in the form of reason. The more they do it, the happier I'll get with the program.

swa66

WebmasterWorld Senior Member swa66 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 2:35 pm on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

As a publisher, I find it very annoying to have advertisers on my site that provide nothing but other ads (affiliate/adsense/...) to my visitors once they get there.

To me as a publisher I find advertisers with a business model to earn money from the traffic they get from me that's nothing more than affiliates and or more ads incompatible with my goals. I'm happy to see some signs Google might be having the same findings.

I've be rooting for GOOG to weed out bad advertisers, and only have quality advertisers.

HuskyPup



 
Msg#: 3642074 posted 2:36 pm on May 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

I'm also concerned that Google adsense possibly doesn't want adsense ads on content only sites regardless of where the traffic comes from.

I don't understand this sentence, care to elaborate?

Like many others I have unique and authoratative content only sites and never had a problem and my traffic sources are global.

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