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This 143 message thread spans 5 pages: 143 ( [1] 2 3 4 5 > >     
January 2008: Are You Seeing The Lowest Numbers Ever?
What are some good legal practices to fight smartpricing & help advertisers
Erku




msg:3550645
 2:31 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

I am seeing the lowest numbers ever. Is it the same for you?

Few questions:

1.) If you are smart priced how long does it take until you get out of it, or do you ever?

2.) What are some potential things that can smartprice your account?

3.) What can a webmaster do to overcome smartprising or to avoid smartpricing.

4.) What are the things that cause an acount to be smartpriced. I think this is an important thing to know, what can you do, to make sure you are not smartpriced?

------------------------------

If webmasters are smartpriced because clicks don't make sale, what about some VERY POOR landing pages that Adword advertisers have. I have seen landing pages that will HARDLY MAKE SALE. Is it fair to hold the webmasters responsible for the click not making the sale?

ASA your help here will be greatly appreciated. Any input will help all of us.

 

europeforvisitors




msg:3550661
 2:58 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

If webmasters are smartpriced because clicks don't make sale, what about some VERY POOR landing pages that Adword advertisers have. I have seen landing pages that will HARDLY MAKE SALE. Is it fair to hold the webmasters responsible for the click not making the sale?

That really isn't an issue, because those ads are served on other sites, too (not just on yours). Google only needs to know--or to anticipate, based on past data--how the ad will perform on your site compared to its performance on other sites.

Erku




msg:3550704
 3:34 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

Two things I am not comfortable with.

Google smartpices accountwise, not site or URL wise. It really needs to be URL-wise not even site-wide, not to mention account-wide.

Let's say you have one account, you are a major company and you have 20 major websites about 20 different projects, totally independent things. Does it make sense to smart-price the entire account?

Another scenario, you have a news site, it covers, health, sports, World News and so on. What do world news ads have in common with Art or health news ads? Not much. People and visitors to those pages are totatlly different, coming to read for different reasons, some are in buying mode, some are not. Also, people are coming different ours, from different walks of life...

So the only fair thing is to smart price account-wise.

----------------

Second: What does an ad's performance in another junk or MFA website have to do with a high quality site?

tim222




msg:3550720
 3:39 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

Since your revenue is at a low point, you have nothing to lose by experimenting. Try less ads per page, more ads per page, different formats, etc.

One thing that helped me was to remove all the image ads and run only text. That might work for you, or the opposite (image ads only) could work on your site.

Above the fold obviously will get more clicks. Some people use heat maps to place their ads. Personally I don't like an ad right in the middle of the page but that area supposedly attracts more clicks.

Green_Grass




msg:3550726
 3:41 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

As far as I understand, a high quality site for an advertiser is one that converts. For Google, this seems to be all important. We have seen numerous threads on this forum, where many 'quality' (information) sites are suffering due to maybe a chnage in the smart pricing algo recently. IMO Google seems to smartprice on the basis of the 'nature of the site' and the 'potential of the site'.

Here is a controversial tip.. Try buying some adwords traffic. This seems to convert much better than organic traffic as it can be quite targetted (given the control over the ads, you have)and can 'maybe' push you out of smart pricing. Done right, it can help. Done wrong, it can brand your site as an MFA.

Erku




msg:3550745
 3:59 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

I am already tired of making new experiments since there is an opportunity cost. If the experiment does not work, you lose what you already had for 2 weeks. Because it takes about 2 weeks to optimize.

europeforvisitors




msg:3550760
 4:05 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

We have seen numerous threads on this forum, where many 'quality' (information) sites are suffering due to maybe a chnage in the smart pricing algo recently.

We know that some publishers are suffering, but we don't know what kinds of sites they have (except in the case of one member who mentioned duplicate content on a thin-affiliate site.)

But you're right about "smart pricing" being based on the perceived likelihood of conversion. Also, it's worth remembering that a "conversion" doesn't have to mean an e-commerce transaction: According to Google's past statements, a conversion could also be a registration, an inquiry, visiting a certain number of pages, or some other "business action" defined by the advertiser. (This is important, because in many cases, AdSense is used to generate qualified leads for a sales force, not to get consumers to whip out their Visas or MasterCards and click an "Order now" button.)

farmboy




msg:3550783
 4:33 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

Here is a controversial tip.. Try buying some adwords traffic. This seems to convert much better than organic traffic as it can be quite targetted (given the control over the ads, you have)and can 'maybe' push you out of smart pricing.

That suggestion probably needs a disclaimer posted with it. Such as "read the June 1st, 2007 arbitrage threads on this forum before attempting"

Personally I've always thought the content of my site generates the targeted traffic.

If webmasters are smartpriced because clicks don't make sale, what about some VERY POOR landing pages that Adword advertisers have. I have seen landing pages that will HARDLY MAKE SALE. Is it fair to hold the webmasters responsible for the click not making the sale?

I wonder if anyone has any reliable information on what percentage of advertisers track conversions via AdWords? Two points:

1. I opened an AdWords account a while back to learn a bit about that side of the equation. I wasn't offered, suggested, required, etc. to establish any conversion criteria. I don't even recall seeing it mentioned.

I could probably find it if I went looking for it, but that's not the point. How many other advertisers are not tracking converstions in a manner that AdWords has useful data from the process?

2. What about all the MFA sites? Are they tracking conversions? A site with nothing but more ads and links to page with still more ads - are they tracking?

I wonder if it helps or hurts a publisher to generate clicks for an advertiser that doesn't participate in converstion tracking? And if it hurts, how can you avoid those advertisers?

FarmBoy

tim222




msg:3550814
 4:57 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

I opened an AdWords account a while back to learn a bit about that side of the equation. I wasn't offered, suggested, required, etc. to establish any conversion criteria. I don't even recall seeing it mentioned.

I think ypu're supposed to use Google Analytics to track conversions. But since many advertisers don't use that, apparently Google has other secret methods to determine ROI.

Here's a relevant comment by Google on the topic of Smart Procong. It's vague, as usual, but they do claim that they don't make money on Smart Pricing:

[adsense.blogspot.com...]

LostOne




msg:3550884
 5:58 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

We know that some publishers are suffering, but we don't know what kinds of sites they have (except in the case of one member who mentioned duplicate content on a thin-affiliate site.)

I think that's the real key. It's a shame we can't get more information into what types of sites these are. Maybe some hints?

coachm




msg:3550910
 6:17 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

I think that's the real key. It's a shame we can't get more information into what types of sites these are. Maybe some hints?

When I've had the chance to actually locate sites of specific ww posters (and also other similar forums), I've been shocked at the nature of the sites--i.e. exceedingly poor quality, or MFA (badly disguised).

Just as an example, one poster here has a site with something like TWENTY ads of various types on each page. Another former poster who boasted of his wonderful pages (and complained about google AND Yahoo) used images thumbnails and 728's in such a way as to be really confusing to users.

Probably WW has the best quality site owners. If you check out the "other" major webmaster forums that allow posting of sites, make sure you are sitting down.

The kicker is that all these people claim to have the bestest sites ever.

coachm




msg:3550915
 6:19 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

I think ypu're supposed to use Google Analytics to track conversions. But since many advertisers don't use that, apparently Google has other secret methods to determine ROI.

The ability to track conversion/ROI is built into ADwords. You can also use Google Analytics to get more detailed information, but it's not necessary.

If you search around here, you'll find that a LOT of advertisers flat out refuse to use either and both because they don't want to share their proprietary sales and profit information with google.

koan




msg:3550958
 6:39 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

The kicker is that all these people claim to have the bestest sites ever.

Maybe the only people willing to share their web site addresses were newbies or people not scared of anyone stealing their lousy concepts.

The highly professionals on this site will probably never share it.

europeforvisitors




msg:3550970
 6:52 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

One could just as easily argue that affected publishers who refuse to share their URLs in their profiles (or via StickyMail) are reticent because they have something to hide, or because they know their sites aren't as good as they've been saying. BUT:

- In reality, forum members have different reasons for sharing or not sharing their URLs, and those reasons don't necessarily have anything to do with the quality of their sites.

- Newer members aren't allowed to include their URLs in their profiles.

tim222




msg:3550977
 6:57 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

In reality, forum members have different reasons for sharing or not sharing their URLs, and those reasons don't necessarily have anything to do with the quality of their sites.

True. I don't share my URL with anyone, whether online or in the real world. I already get plenty of traffic and clicks and I don't need any "help" from well-meaning friends, or sabotage by someone who's jealous or just doesn't like me.

iwannano1




msg:3551007
 7:29 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

I was also badly affected since Oct-20-2007. It continued till 3-Jan-2008. When contacted adsense support they said my site is hardly affected by smart price. For almost 3 months I suffered on all sites. I don't know what happened everything backed on Jan-3rd and it is improving everyday. Look like google made some changes or may be it was just silly season. Please note that I made no changes to site or ad position at all. Just waited.. heh

FattyB




msg:3551078
 8:40 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

Well I am not overly keen on sharing my sites because I don't want to damage any business relationships I might have with companies I am commenting on.

But the site in question is an online newspaper with an entertainment bias. If you use Google News then you will no doubt have seen it or been on it.

Covers celebrity, movies, tech, world news. Mixture of staff and agency content. ALso carries huge amount of media like photos (galleris of celebs, breaking news, movie stills) and video and stores information on movies, dvds etc in "database" pages.

Gets around 1.6 million unique per month, though sometimes 3 million. At least 2/3s of traffic is USA...the rest mainly UK, Canada and Australia.

Most traffic is from search (60%) and the rest from direct (17%) and referals. The most popular content is articles...celebrity, world news and movies being the most popular sections.

[edited by: tedster at 6:09 am (utc) on Jan. 19, 2008]
[edit reason] no specific domains, thanks [/edit]

FattyB




msg:3551165
 10:26 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

One thing to note is the German language site now makes 80% of English site (on Adsense) on 20% of the traffic. Really it is the same as the English site was before October.

Though it has a separate Adsense account, in partnership with a German company so they have one setup over there.

tim222




msg:3551371
 4:14 am on Jan 18, 2008 (gmt 0)

One thing to note is the German language site now makes 80% of English site (on Adsense) on 20% of the traffic. Really it is the same as the English site was before October.

That's interesting to know. I've been wondering if it's worth the cost to translate my site into another language. Sounds like it might be.

[edited by: tim222 at 4:18 am (utc) on Jan. 18, 2008]

Erku




msg:3551372
 4:16 am on Jan 18, 2008 (gmt 0)

How do you translate a large site into another language? Through google tools?

tim222




msg:3551375
 4:19 am on Jan 18, 2008 (gmt 0)

There are sites, like elance.com, that allow people to bid on the job.

FattyB




msg:3551425
 6:44 am on Jan 18, 2008 (gmt 0)

Yes you could hire someone. But often writers are cheaper than translators. The German site is not a translation, different content.

nomis5




msg:3551472
 7:54 am on Jan 18, 2008 (gmt 0)

Someone mentioned earlier that smart-pricing is account wide not at url or site level. Is that true?

drall




msg:3551888
 5:18 pm on Jan 18, 2008 (gmt 0)

From our rather detailed experiences smartpricing is without question universal to our entire account. Nobody really has any concrete evidence that this is universal but in our experience it is accountwide.

wyweb




msg:3551897
 5:36 pm on Jan 18, 2008 (gmt 0)

I'm pretty sure it's account wide. I once argued that it wasn't but I believe now I was wrong.

FattyB




msg:3551928
 6:05 pm on Jan 18, 2008 (gmt 0)

I don't think this is smart pricing or if it is then it is URL specific.

I ran Adsense code from the German companies' account on our English site for a day and made no difference to revenue, eCPM.

It is the overnight crash and then down like a torpedo after 3 years or so very steady that puzzles me.

Also the complete lack of replies from my Adsense rep or the general Adsense contact form is puzzling given for 2 years they have replied the next day whenever I contact them.

europeforvisitors




msg:3552064
 8:25 pm on Jan 18, 2008 (gmt 0)

Also the complete lack of replies from my Adsense rep or the general Adsense contact form is puzzling given for 2 years they have replied the next day whenever I contact them.

I'd guess they don't know the answer and are waiting to find out what the reason is (assuming that they're told the reason, which may not happen).

FattyB




msg:3552070
 8:34 pm on Jan 18, 2008 (gmt 0)

Right, the word courtesy springs to mind.

Erku




msg:3552196
 12:05 am on Jan 19, 2008 (gmt 0)

Do you also think that earnings are particularly lower on Thursdays and Friday?

I just noticed it based on the data of the past 3 weeks.

If yes why? why not on Saturday and Sunday, but Thursday and Friday?

farmboy




msg:3552231
 2:18 am on Jan 19, 2008 (gmt 0)

I'm pretty sure it's account wide. I once argued that it wasn't but I believe now I was wrong.

I would think it would be fairly easy to determine that. Let's say you have 10 sites with channels implemented to track the performance of each site.

Then you "sell" one of your sites to your spouse. The spouse then applies for her/his very own AdSense account and puts AdSense back on the account in the same positions, quantity, etc.

Then see what happens to both accounts.

FarmBoy

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