coach, you keep saying that percentages are meaningless, and they may well be so, if you either don't know them or view them in a void.
Let's say ad network told you that you get:
70% of .01-.10 clicks
50% of .11-.25
40% of .25-.50
30% of .51-.99
20% of 1.00 and up.
Now, tell me having that information would be meaningless.
Now, ad network tells you that the percentages change based on traffic. More traffic (average over 60 days, say), better %, and they give you info on caps and fill rates.
Now, tell me again having that information would be meaningless.
I daresay some people might begin doing some analysis, adjust sites and ad placements to mazimize revenue. Or, some might be upset at that 20% over 1.00 and look elsewhere.
Sorry you think of yourself as such a giant business genius, but saying anything is meaningless smacks of ignorance and arogance. The percentages at least offer a perspective for the publisher and a bit of understanding on how the system works and pays.
For sure, but I am talking about when they are the same or very similar not when they are big differences.
I am not going to run some ads just because it is a higher %...
But as I said knowing the % is handy for other things. Like just simply knowing it has been changed, rather than us all on here speculating.
The reality is that Google doesn't disclose the percentage that it pays to individual publisher, and there's no reason to believe that it ever will (at least for the core AdSense product, which is what we're discussing here--rep deals between Google and radio stations or newspapers or whatever are a whole different topic).
Since this topic is about whether the time to leave AdSense is approaching, I'd contend that each of us needs to decide what our dealbreakers are. Some forum members may feel that Google's "lack of transparency" is reason enough to quit AdSense; others (myself included) are more likely to make such judgments based on eCPM, earnings, and the availability of better-paying alternatives.
Even if they are the same or similar, what does % tell you that bottom line doesn't? Nothing.
It tells you before you serve them, that is the point.
|Since this topic is about whether the time to leave AdSense is approaching...others (myself included) are more likely to make such judgments based on eCPM, earnings, and the availability of better-paying alternatives. |
Exactly. As long as adsense is the best game in town most of us will continue with it. At some point it may not make sense, but for now on my sites it does.
|It tells you before you serve them, that is the point. |
It tells you what before you serve the ads? Certainly not what you're going to earn.
Anyway, that isn't how AdSense works. The AdSense network has been around since 2003, and Google has always treated its inner workings as proprietary information. Barring a mass exodus by publishers (which isn't going to happen), it's hard to imagine why Google would be willing to reveal its trade secrets.
Europeforvisitors if you cannot see how that would let you work out that you would make more then I am not going to argue the toss.
As for Adsense I personally think they will give publishers a little more control and info, else they will have shelf the stuff they are testing.
As to reasons for leaving well I won't be leaving either unless I make more cash somewhere else. On one site I am removing Adsense to test something else on the other I am not. but I have not felt that need until now and I guess the same is true for some other publishers else we would not have this thread...
|For sure, but I am talking about when they are the same or very similar not when they are big differences. |
I am not going to run some ads just because it is a higher %...
FattyB, you should just stick with your position as quoted above, which is a reasonable one.
Of course what the rest of us are saying is that different networks CAN have big differences between what they charge, and that's why the percent share is of little if any decision-making value. It's absurd to assume that the advertisers end up paying the same CPM or CPC rate to every ad network.
Everything else aside, would love to hear back from the OP to hear how the switch went. Seems like in every thread similar to this one, the OP is threatening to jump but they seem to take the plunge unless there's a boot hitting their rears.
sutrostyle, it's been two weeks, did you jump? And if so, how's life on the other side?
Sorry to disappoint you, but re-read post 1. Sutrostyle was threatening to leave in 45 days, i.e. February 22 if my math is correct.
Would love to see someone finally go from threatening to jump to actually crossing over to the other side.
Just what is the other side?
Before joining adsense I was seeing appalling revenues from where I was.
Adsense was good for me, but the last 3 months despite increased traffic has seen a drop of 40% in revenue.
It's very painful, but for all that I am not seriously considering jumping, as I know of no where to sensibly jump.
>>>Just what is the other side?
There are many alternative programs but the bar to getting into some of them are set higher than AdSense, from boutique programs like GorillaNation to other smaller ones.
|Europeforvisitors if you cannot see how that would let you work out that you would make more then I am not going to argue the toss. |
FattyB, you misread my post. I'm not asking whether you or I would earn more by knowing Google's compensation formula (though I'm skeptical about that); I'm asking how Google would benefit from releasing that information. What does Google have to gain by making it easy for other CPC networks to cherrypick AdSense publishers with offers of higher percentages than Google is paying?
To summarize in five words: "What's in it for Google?"
Well in the case of the non-targeted...nothing. I agree it would not benefit them at all. I am a publisher so I would benefit.
In the case of site targeted they would have to release some information regards pricing if not %. I think anyway for it to work well for them and to compete with other CPM networks. Again as a publisher the more info I get the better. Especially if I want to do some direct sale deals with advertisers. Knowing what they have been paying the network is very handy.
The more info you have as a publisher the better you can deal with said network, other networks and advertisers direct. The tighter the economy gets the more publishers will feel the pinch and that puts more pressure on networks to release more info or increase share...espcially if they continue to post high profits.
[edited by: FattyB at 8:10 pm (utc) on Jan. 22, 2008]
|Especially if I want to do some direct sale deals with advertisers. Knowing what they have been paying the network is very handy. |
FattyB, it seems to me all your arguments in favor of more info for the publishers goes directly against Google's best interest.
|The tighter the economy gets the more publishers will feel the pinch and that puts more pressure on networks to release more info or increase share...espcially if they continue to post high profits. |
You have this exactly BACKWARDS!
...and I suspect you have an inflated idea of the value of any individual publisher.
I'm guessing, at this point, that you don't advertise via adwords?
Well for sure, I am a publisher and don't have any Google shares.
I think what Martinibuster says is very true. There are few alternatives that can match Adsense, even when it is not doing as well as it did for some, and are easy to get into. In fact the ones I know that are easy to get into are all pay many times less than Adsense.
The couple that I think might be better, now, for one of my sites are quite difficult to get into...one only just let us in for a test with 1 million USA uniques being at the bare minimum it seems...
However, something else cropped up this week as a possible alternative with joining a bigger network who have a CPM (I think) deal with Google. Would solve my falling rev issue with Adsense on that site maybe.
But certainly is not easy and we are quite lucky in that we only run Adsense in one spot. If it was the whole site it would have been stuffed a few months ago.
Coach, oh sure I could imagine it could go the other way and publishers would find themselves being forced into running whacky ads etc. Did popup madness not ensue after the previous crash? But I am always optimistic.
[edited by: FattyB at 8:40 pm (utc) on Jan. 22, 2008]
|The couple that I think might be better, now, for one of my sites are quite difficult to get into...one only just let us in for a test with 1 million USA uniques being at the bare minimum it seems... |
Out of curiosity: 1 million unique visitors or 1 million impressions?
That was one million unique...well 960 odd thousand and just USA. Said something like given the low volume we will take the lot...the site in question hsa very high unique to page view ratio seem to think click advertiser like that.
The other company I mentioned are more of a network and want to take over everything on the site regards advertising. Including supplying Adsense.
I am going to give one of them a try for this site for sure. I just need to work out how quickly it can be done and how to do it practically. In terms of payment cycles etc. Always tricky to change any advertiser if you don;t have lots of cash in the bank to provide cash-flow while you switch.
But Adsense continues to do well on the other site.
[edited by: FattyB at 5:05 am (utc) on Jan. 23, 2008]
For me its like being a Family Member of Google Adsense now its like a part of my life just to earn few more bucks I cant leave the one who supported me and made me stand in my bad days. I will still suggest the one who wants to quit to continue with Adsense cause we have seen many ups and down in this few years with google Adsense atlest we know what is the potential of google Adsense. Google Adsense had provided me a good financial security and I always try to keep my site up2date and add more fresh, good and useful content for website visitors. Thanks to Google Adsense to add me as a publisher network and as a family member. Its a great experiance being a part of it since last 3 years. Its Rocking :-)
|Well for sure, I am a publisher and don't have any Google shares. |
Lucky you, as of today:
GOOG Plunged from $747.24 (52 weeks high) to $548.62. It's 26.6% drop from top.
GOOG shares drop 6.11% from previous trading day, when at the same time Dow Jones Industrial Average was up 2.50%.
System: The following 3 messages were spliced on to this thread from: http://www.webmasterworld.com/google_adsense/3561233.htm [webmasterworld.com] by martinibuster - 12:32 pm on Jan. 29, 2008 (utc -8)
I run a large forum site with additional features such as jobs and directory listings. We are highly ranked at search engines for keywords in our category. Since I've been with Adsense for many years, it has always easily outperformed other third-party CPM networks like Fastclick/Valueclick. Shockingly, that has recently changed.
Since December, the CPM networks have been gaining ground while Adsense has been slipping. As of this week, one of the two CPM networks I use easily outperforms Adsense and the other is not far behind. We give Adsense the best placement on our site, too, with custom code to blend Adsense. We haven't made changes to the ad code for at least six months.
To me, this indicates that Google has gone too far in appeasing their advertisers and has not done enough to support their publishers. If this trend continues, we'll likely replace Adsense in the coming months.
I wonder if anyone else has seen this trend?
Just search the forum as there is tons of discussion on this issue. Few thoughts
- Click Area Change
- Smart Pricing
- Forum ads performance badly
Personally, I've switched to CMP network and adsense works as fallback only.
AdSense is hanging in there for me. It represents a minority of revenue (which also comes from affiliate programs and audience-targeted display ads), but EPC has been trending upward lately, which strikes me as being a good sign. Still, every sector, publisher, etc. is different, and it makes sense to keep what works and dump what doesn't.
For us, it seems the click area change was the culprit.
Pre-December '07, our Adsense eCPM was around $1, now it's around $0.4.
Time to leave Adsense maybe approaching?
I tried to figure it out for my account.
Known that day to day revenue was always like a roller coaster, I used monthly revenue as a calculation.
Since actual $ was forbidden, let's use $1 as starting point for my monthly revenue.
2003 Monthly Revenue Average $01.00 (starting from August)
2004 Monthly Revenue Average $01.34 (033.8% increase from 2003)
2005 Monthly Revenue Average $02.17 (062.0% increase from 2004)
2006 Monthly Revenue Average $07.84 (261.6% increase from 2005)
2007 Monthly Revenue Average $11.16 (042.3% increase from 2006)
2008 Let's hope for the best... :)
Note: 2006 big increase due to optimization suggested by Google (as read from their blog/forum) and also from various forum tips.
Yes, among those daily revenue, there was a lot of extreme variations in high and low. The sites also in and out Google sandbox for reasons I didn't know.
Yet... That's the result for my sites.
So.. For me personally, it's still a good investment to maintain the relationship with Adsense.
Almost every other advertiser we has tried in the last month is outperforming adsense. A few months ago google got 100% of our ads real estate and now we've cut them down to around 20% with further cuts coming at the first of the month. We'll leave some adsense on the site just to keep an eye on performnce, but for all practical purposes we've moved on.
Our market is extremely high volume and low quality social networking traffic. In that market we were one of the last of the high volume sites to switch away from adsense, so in at least one market the time to leave adsense has already past.
While it is quite disappointing and we sure miss when our traffic was worth well over 5x as much as it is now, if you are going to make a go of it longterm as an independent online entrepreneur you had better get accustom to change. We had a great run with adsense for a long time, now it's time for the next chapter.
|Our market is extremely high volume and low quality social networking traffic. |
What kind of monthly page views are we talking about here?
10 mil, 50 mil, 100 mil, more?
Is the AdSense still running targeted or are the ads completely random?
Do you feel that AdSense may be trying to slowly extricate itself from mass market, lower quality traffic ala Web 2.0?
What do you feel about a niche Web 2.0 site with focussed visitors?
Just a thought.
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