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This 40 message thread spans 2 pages: 40 ( [1] 2 > >     
How do you know if you have been smartpriced?
I hear alot about smartpricing
cocacolafun




msg:3512090
 9:27 pm on Nov 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

How do you know if you have been smartprice?

Do you get a red flag or something?

What if you have been smartprices since the start? Would you know?

 

europeforvisitors




msg:3512128
 10:42 pm on Nov 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

You don't know, but in any case, it isn't worth worrying about. What matters is how much you earn, not how much the advertiser paid for the click. Look at the numbers in your AdSense reports and use those to decide whether AdSense is worth having on your site(s).

casua




msg:3512159
 11:36 pm on Nov 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

How do you know if you have been smartprice?

You don't. This is a black box.

Rather than letting publishers know which of their pages or types of content convert well and letting them micro-manage the whole thing (which Google alone can never do) and thus earn more money to Google and advertisers, they prefer to be silent, Smart Price your whole account down, and thus push you out of the AdSense network completely. Makes sense? Doesn't it.

europeforvisitors




msg:3512244
 2:57 am on Nov 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

they prefer to be silent, Smart Price your whole account down, and thus push you out of the AdSense network completely.

If a significant percentage of publishers were being "pushed out of the AdSense Network" by smart pricing, AdSense network revenues would be decreasing, not growing.

greatstart




msg:3512248
 3:05 am on Nov 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Cocacolafun, I recommend that you read "The facts about smart pricing" at - [adsense.blogspot.com...]

ken_b




msg:3512254
 3:17 am on Nov 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

If a significant percentage of publishers were being "pushed out of the AdSense Network" by smart pricing, AdSense network revenues would be decreasing, not growing.

That might be possible if there were no new publishers being admitted to the system.

But that isn't the case.

In all likelihood those new publishers represent a whole cross section of quality clicks, some may be severley Smart Priced, others perhaps not at all.

That means that if the number of new publishers even comes close to the number of those leaving, because of Smart Pricing, there could be growth in the AdSense network revenues.

farmboy




msg:3512258
 3:29 am on Nov 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Look at the numbers in your AdSense reports and use those to decide whether AdSense is worth having on your site(s).

I started with AdSense in July, 2003. I believe that was the second month of its existence.

Here we are 4+ years later and it's interesting how common it is to read remarks about people deciding whether AdSense is worth having - as compared to the initial months/years of AdSense. I don't recall reading those kind of remarks often in the beginning.

With YPN it seems to be just the opposite. It's still in beta and people often have to consider whether it's worth having on a site.

FarmBoy

europeforvisitors




msg:3512268
 4:09 am on Nov 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

That means that if the number of new publishers even comes close to the number of those leaving, because of Smart Pricing, there could be growth in the AdSense network revenues.

If that were true, it would suggest that the newly recruited publishers were outperforming the recently departed publishers.

Maybe smart pricing, when carried to an extreme, is a gentle way of nudging non-performing publishers toward the door?

iwannano1




msg:3512274
 4:55 am on Nov 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

You can also email Adsense and ask them. However, it may take anywhere from 3 - 1 business week to get reply (or may be they will just ignore you).

casua




msg:3512336
 9:14 am on Nov 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

If a significant percentage of publishers were being "pushed out of the AdSense Network" by smart pricing, AdSense network revenues would be decreasing, not growing.

It is in the best interest of all parties (publishers, advertisers, and Google) to let publishers know the conversion rates. There is no room for abuse here. Publishers actively striving to bring higher conversion rates to advertisers can only be a good thing, never a bad thing.

Now think for a while, and accept the fact that Google is harming everyone by their silence: If you had a site where half of the pages convert well and half of the pages don't convert at all, what do you think would be wiser business-wise:

1) Expel the publisher completely by Smart Pricing all content down (including the well converting pages)

2) Recommend (or hint via statistics) the publisher to remove the ads from the non-converting content.

If you answer 1, I will probably skip all your posts in the future.

koan




msg:3512342
 9:42 am on Nov 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

casua, I agree with you, when Google "smart price" a web site, or a whole account, I think it would be in the best interest of all parties to actually know what the hell is going on. This black box philosophy can only go so far.

I love adsense as whole, especially that check at the end of the month, but I despise their quirks which is only permitted by the lack of decent competition.

casua




msg:3512358
 10:41 am on Nov 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Yes. I really have to wonder if they truly want to see improved ROI. Facts speak otherwise. They let publishers micro-manage their ads based only on CTR and overall earnings (even though ROI is much more important for sustainable long-term success).

europeforvisitors




msg:3512469
 2:57 pm on Nov 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Facts speak otherwise. They let publishers micro-manage their ads based only on CTR and overall earnings (even though ROI is much more important for sustainable long-term success).

Good point. Maybe they should supply no data except total earnings, so that publishers would stop micromanaging ads and spend their time developing good content instead. :-)

Seriously, though, they've already got people keeping an eye on ROI: Those people are the advertisers, who have placement reports and domain filters to help them determine where ads should or shouldn't run.

[EDITED TO ADD:]

Remember, too, that low-converting but smartpriced clicks could have better ROI, in some cases, than high-converting, full-priced clicks. Encouraging publishers to remove ads from their least productive pages may not be in the interests of advertisers or Google. It may not even be in the best interests of publishers, who--in many cases--have no other way to monetize their low-performing pages.

zett




msg:3512487
 3:47 pm on Nov 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Maybe they should supply no data except total earnings, so that publishers would stop micromanaging ads and spend their time developing good content instead. :-)

Even better: just total earnings, updated monthly! Why hazzle with day-to-day data? Also, it could be that some fiendish publisher could try to interpret the Adsense payout algo just based on daily total earnings. ;-)

MikeNoLastName




msg:3512814
 2:52 am on Nov 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the Link GreatStart.
Besides being unfortunately, 2 years old, in which case I suspect it is somewhat outdated, I think it raises more questions than it answers.
For instance it talks about factors determining the price of an ad, a key one being "the quality of an ad". Does this mean how well they think it is written, or it's CTR performance? The CTR can be affected from both sides (publisher & advertiser), in other words both by how rotten it is written, as well as say, how far down on a page it is placed. Why should one side be permitted to affect the other side's rating? It could be a perfectly good ad, but simply never get's noticed on a page due to the placement and thus never clicked.
Later it advises Not to remove adsense code from a low CTR SITE
because it may be the "best converting" site. However, one we have no way of knowing this, If the percentage of clicks that convert for an advertiser is admittedly THE VERY MOST IMPORTANT factor in an advertiser's ROI" shouldn't we be allowed to know it and do all we can to improve it? Like maybe having the option to block ads which aren't converting rather than wasting space for cheap on them?
More importantly how does Adwords know how well it is CONVERTING for an advertiser? Do they ask him? Is he honest, or does he lie to get a lower rate? If he is a competitor and he lies consistently, about you and he is one of only a few in a very narrow niche of advertisers you get, can it be intentionally used to hurt you? Does Suzie's careful wording confirm that ALL sites under an account are averaged together to determine an overall smart-pricing for the entire account, rather than site by site or page by page? Also hasn't it been highly discussed and pretty well proven (and confirmed, at least in my experience) that a lower CTR = worse smart pricing? Thus I have always found it advantageous to remove low CPM/Low CTR ad units contrary to Suzie's claim.

ArtistMike




msg:3512893
 9:46 am on Nov 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

If a significant percentage of publishers were being "pushed out of the AdSense Network" by smart pricing, AdSense network revenues would be decreasing, not growing.

===============================================

The revenues for whom? For publishers? For Google?

If more publishers leave the network for other things, what happens to the ones that are left in the Google network? Would they gain by other publishers leaving the Google network or would they lose?

My impression is that the more publishers that leave the Google network the better for the ones that stay. Shrug. But that is just my guess.

Mike

Hobbs




msg:3512909
 11:53 am on Nov 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

How do you know if you have been smartprice?

When even your own dog won't give you the time of day .. You are being SmartPriced.

When you wakeup in the morning and it feels like you're suddenly 30 years older .. You are being SmartPriced.

When you feel a sudden hit in the groin and you have no idea where it came from .. You have just been SmartPriced.

It's an enigma, an invisible force of nature, now stop that noise and get back on your hamster wheel :-)

arpecop




msg:3512941
 1:42 pm on Nov 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

ecpm under a dollar

Habtom




msg:3512942
 1:45 pm on Nov 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

It's an enigma, an invisible force of nature, now stop that noise and get back on your hamster wheel :-)

That is my advice too.

zett




msg:3512955
 2:01 pm on Nov 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

When you wakeup in the morning and it feels like you're suddenly 30 years older .. You are being SmartPriced.

Nope. In this case you have been SmartAged.

europeforvisitors




msg:3513006
 3:31 pm on Nov 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

The revenues for whom? For publishers? For Google?

I was referring to total network revenues.

If more publishers leave the network for other things, what happens to the ones that are left in the Google network? Would they gain by other publishers leaving the Google network or would they lose?

That's hard to say, but the effect of departing publishers on other publishers' earnings is likely to be minimal, since those who go voluntarily are likely to be those with the lowest EPC and eCPM.

mrSEman




msg:3513044
 5:13 pm on Nov 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

How do you know if you have been smartprice?

OP... Want to know for sure?

Why not try this little experiment. Start an Adwords Site Targetted PPC campaing targetting one of your own sites. Set a bid of 1.00 and wait for someone to click. You will then see how much you spent per click as an advertiser and how much you earned as a publisher. You should also see if the clicks are smartpriced. Make sure you report back the percentages of profit sharing between yourself and Google. ;)

europeforvisitors




msg:3513073
 6:16 pm on Nov 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

MrSEman, even if that were to work, the results would be valid only for that click at that point in time. (If it were that simple to measure smart-pricing discounts and Google's payout, people here wouldn't be speculating about both 4-1/2 years after the launch of AdSense and more than 3-1/2 years after the introduction of smart pricing.)

MikeNoLastName




msg:3513333
 4:35 am on Nov 26, 2007 (gmt 0)

>>>(If it were that simple to measure smart-pricing discounts and Google's payout, people here wouldn't be speculating about both 4-1/2 years after the launch of AdSense and more than 3-1/2 years after the introduction of smart pricing.) <<<

Um, probably because the ability to specifically target AND track a specific page, i.e. your own, hasn't been around that long.

Wouldn't it also require a SECOND account to bid against yourself at .99? Oherwise you don't know what the next highest bidder bid (maybe they only bid .05 and thus you get it max-priced for .06).

[edited by: MikeNoLastName at 4:41 am (utc) on Nov. 26, 2007]

sutrostyle




msg:3513379
 6:53 am on Nov 26, 2007 (gmt 0)

Assuming that your traffic and ad placement does not change, plotting your ecpm with 1 year range helps. You will be able to see discontinous jumps there.

europeforvisitors




msg:3513621
 3:21 pm on Nov 26, 2007 (gmt 0)

Assuming that your traffic and ad placement does not change, plotting your ecpm with 1 year range helps. You will be able to see discontinous jumps there.

Discontinuous jumps (or dips) in eCPM can be caused by many factors, not just smart pricing.

Too many publishers waste time worrying about things they can't measure or control, such as smart pricing and Google's payout percentage. It's far more productive to obsess about things that can be measured and acted upon, such as eCPM and total revenues (which determine whether AdSense ads are worth having on your site and, if so, how much screen real estate they deserve).

potentialgeek




msg:3514215
 5:16 am on Nov 27, 2007 (gmt 0)

mrSEman,

What you'd want to do, actually, is compare the click cost for your site to similar sites. Smartpricing is relative.

If site example.com costs $0.50/click, for example, and your site costs $0.05/click, there's a good chance you've been smartpriced.

Then scoot over to the competitor's site and copy its ad format, positioning, etc., i.e., the Winning Adsense Profile.

Just kidding,

p/g

PowerUp




msg:3514370
 12:55 pm on Nov 27, 2007 (gmt 0)

What you'd want to do, actually, is compare the click cost for your site to similar sites. Smartpricing is relative.

If site example.com costs $0.50/click, for example, and your site costs $0.05/click, there's a good chance you've been smartpriced.

How do you know how much your competitors are earning a click? I've got only a click yesterday, and it's earned me $0.03.

Edge




msg:3514413
 2:17 pm on Nov 27, 2007 (gmt 0)

How do you know if you have been smart priced?

Very good question, I have heard (read) many very good untested or unproven theories, however the folks that really know exactly what the deal is the Google folks themselves. So far, Google is not talking. When I take my shoes off and put Googles on, I can dream up a million different flavors of smart pricing. It could be a small percentage of total earnings which would never be obvious to the website owner. Or, smart pricing could be wholesale slash and gash and/or every thing in between

The bottom line is that I doubt Google will ever tell anybody what is really going or how the math works. I sincerely hope the smart pricing could increase ones earning as well, though I suspect it can only reduce one’s earnings.

Who know, maybe someday a disgruntled employee will spill the beans..

[edited by: Edge at 2:19 pm (utc) on Nov. 27, 2007]

Green_Grass




msg:3514423
 2:26 pm on Nov 27, 2007 (gmt 0)

How do you know you have been smartpriced?

Given the lack of info. from Google, it is mostly intuitive.. ;-)

When you receive only 1 cent to 3 cent clicks over 100's of clicks for ads which sell medium to expensive products or services, you KNOW, you have been smartpriced.

When your income falls suddenly by 50- 60 %, you know you have been smartpriced.

When you can't seem to do anything to increase the EPC, you know you have been smartpriced or capped.

This 40 message thread spans 2 pages: 40 ( [1] 2 > >
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