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This 48 message thread spans 2 pages: 48 ( [1] 2 > >     
2,500 > 40,000
So long Google
mike73




msg:3361888
 8:31 am on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

Well, I'm finally giving up on Google. I would rather earn nothing that put up with the constant disappointment that is Google.

I've been getting 40,000 impressions per day, and my CTR is a lot more than it used to be, but I'm making less money than I did a few months ago, when I was only getting 2,500 impressions per day.

So, good bye Google. I've had it with your senseless earnings.

For those of you that are happy with Google, more power to you, and I wish you continued success, but I'm out of here.

 

zett




msg:3361889
 8:43 am on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

Yeah, the metrics really do not make sense.

eCPM values for our sites are down consistently between 10% and 30% this year compared to last year. At the same time we are hearing about "record earnings" for Google each new quarter. I feel like contributing to the success of Google without actually participating in this success.

Google makes it very difficult to love their program.

mike73




msg:3361908
 8:57 am on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

The thing that bothers me the most is that it's so secretive and one-sided.

Hobbs




msg:3361909
 9:01 am on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

zett:
>the metrics really do not make sense
yes, true, that's why it is not for everyone, here what I just wrote in another thread on this exact isue:

Go for CPM networks (Good luck finding a good one) if you want to see proportional jumps in earnings with your traffic, otherwise, PPC carries this uncertainty,
PPC is fishing not catching

mike73,
I feel your pain, please let us know how it turns out for you with other networks, most of us are trying to diversify too.

Eazygoin




msg:3361932
 9:25 am on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

It would also be interesting to see if changing ad provider affects Google spidering and/or SERP's positioning. They say that the two [ adverts and spidering ] are completely seperate issues.

zett




msg:3361934
 9:35 am on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

Hobbs,

fishing not catching

Good comparison. You see, I am not as dissatisfied with Adsense as Mike73. That's why I am still part of the program. However, the thing that strikes me again and again is that traffic and revenue do not correlate.

(I know, I know, it's PPC and it's an auction based system, and it might have to do with supply and demand, so there is no reason that these values should correlate at all, and also I am free to leave the program at all times. No need to remind me of that.)

Yet, I see my traffic sources almost exactly the same as 2006, with more organic links coming in due to quality content. If all the parameters remain unchanged, I somehow feel the Adsense parameters should remain unchanged, too.

I agree that Mike73's traffic increase is probably a bit on the large side (from 2500 to 40000, that's 16-fold), but for established sites with a constant, predictable stream of traffic and clicks, I think the revenue should also be predictable, in a positive fashion. My revenue and eCPM is predictable, too: pointing down.

I would love to not care about any of the following:

- finding and removing bad (unsuitable) advertisers, be it MFAs, scammers, or garbitrage sites
- sudden EPC drops (probably due to MFAs)
- sudden CTR drops (probably due to bad targeting)
- sudden eCPM drops (probably due to Google gettin' greedy)

I would love to just care about creating useful unique quality content. That's what I am good at. But if it is of no value to Adsense (i.e. adding content does not lead to better revenues), then there is no point in adding that content, or at least: not adding Adsense to that content. That's the whole point. I want to be rewarded for the efforts to create content.

andrewshim




msg:3361936
 9:41 am on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

I feel your pain, please let us know how it turns out for you with other networks, most of us are trying to diversify too.

Hobbs! you used the "D" word again!

After May, I am 100% sure that diversification is the only way to keep my sanity.

Hobbs




msg:3361978
 11:11 am on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

There is nothing to prevent us from running a good CPM campaign (if there is such a thing) along with AdSense.

In the past few days I am experiencing a 50% jump in traffic (and my site is not small), yet the earnings are unaffected, I am just glad it did not drop. That's PPC for you.

zett, I am simply against the "take it or leave it" posts, but also the AdSense is crap and AdSense is God posts, AdSense is all of those ;-)

Andrew good to see you back, I knew the "d" word will bait you into the discussion.

Raymond




msg:3361983
 11:21 am on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

mike73, I feel your pain too. At the moment my site does 120,000 ad impressions per day and I have been averaging only $20 per day. Somedays my EPC can go as low as 1 cent. Back in February my site was doing roughly 60,000 ad impression/day I was making $100+ a day. Heck, my highest day was $900 back in December, when one of my page was dugg, with just over 200,000 impressions.

I have been giving less and less impressions to Adsense since April. I've sold a couple ads spot directly to retailers and websites and it worked pretty well. You just have to find an industry which your traffic will convert to sales, do some research and find your own sponsors. It's tough for sure and you won't be able to fill all your ad inventory. But it does feel a lot better than knowing Adsense ripping you off by paying you 1 cent per click.

hyperkik




msg:3362037
 12:41 pm on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

Part of the answer, maybe all of it, could lie with the source of the traffic. If it's low quality traffic, it could trigger smart pricing.

I've had short-term influxes of legitimate traffic that were valuable, and other influxes that were worthless. In the latter case, they were either people who "look and don't click" or people who came to see content that is of low value to advertisers. But the rest of my site's earnings were not affected. My long-term traffic building has resulted in stable, increased earnings.

jonny




msg:3362395
 6:13 pm on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

Yeah, I'm not impressed. My impressions have been steadily moving up as I get solid, "natural" traffic (i.e. I'm not out hitting digg, etc., but instead am writing enough that other webmasters within my area of interest are linking to me, I'm slowly moving up the ranks in Google, etc.). Meanwhile I'm experienced what the OP is.

I have diversified (Amazon, etc., ) and that is starting to pay off. It's not as steady as AdSense - I might make a couple of dollars one day off of Amazon or whatever, and then the next make thirty or forty, but it's doing well enough that I'm going to eventually have it down to one AdSense on the page.

Then again, if I did what the AdSense optimization tips said, and remove all of the junk sites from my filter, then maybe my earnings would shoot up ;-)

netmeg




msg:3362422
 7:11 pm on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

When the advertisers trust the network, they'll put money in it. I have virtually no limits on the budgets I can put into AdWords for my top three clients - as long as the conversions are there. They weren't there for Content, so I took the money out and put it in Search. I recently started putting it back into Content, but at a MUCH lower cpc, and judging from some nasty sites I ran across yesterday, I probably shouldn't even have done that. I turned Content back off yesterday.

AdSense isn't ripping you off. It's the crap in the network that reflects upon the entire network and keeps the lucrative advertising away that does.

And I'm an AdSense publisher too, and I get plenty of .02 and .03 clicks.

Essex_boy




msg:3362430
 7:19 pm on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

And i thought it was just me, im only getting around45% of earnings that I had been reaching.

jomaxx




msg:3362437
 7:28 pm on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

I sympathize with mike73, but before saying anything beyond that I'd want to know how his traffic has changed during the course of increasing almost 20X, and what changes if any contributed to the increase in CTR.

Remember, one thing that has been noted repeatedly is that Google's algorithms may overcompensate for certain changes. For example, removing AdSense from low-value pages may cause your overall earnings to rise; getting a flood of low-quality traffic may cause your overall earnings to fall. That sort of thing.

newsecular




msg:3362460
 8:15 pm on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

The problem is the price based on CTR model.
Hard boiled savvy webmasters take ordinary advertisers to the cleaners.
That is why they get clicks at 1-2-3 cent, they know how to get the CTR.

mike73




msg:3362542
 10:18 pm on Jun 8, 2007 (gmt 0)

To add some clarity (and a correction to the time scale):

I had been using AdSense on only one page of my site for a few years, and the money was always very slowly but steadily increasing until I maxed out at about $7 a day. Then I decided to put AdSense on all my pages (in January), and quickly jumped to 40K impressions. I started averaging $13 a day, and that went up to about $20 by March. But since April, it's just been going down, down, down, even though CTR is higher than ever, and now I'm averaging less than $6 a day.

nonni




msg:3362613
 1:51 am on Jun 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

I was ready to pull Adsense from my pages, then around June 1, I saw a recovery of earnings. Lasted for a few days, faded, and seems to be back today. So I am leaving it for now.

But I share your frustration. The program has gotten so complicated that a simple publisher that just puts adsense on his pages is probably not going to do well. It is the company that has a full-time adsense specialist that spends hours reading, doing A-B testing, etc. that maximizes income. The other peons see the value of a click decline by 90%, and if they complain, they are told it must be something they are doing, or that the market is doing. And yet when Google expels some arbitrage parasites and scares some of the other riff-raff, suddenly the average value of a click rebounds to what it used to be? I think it's pretty clear that Google was not ripping the little guy off, but they were letting him be ripped off. In the same way that their algorithms often reward crap pages provided someone goes out and buys lots of links. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, the great Google knows all and sees all. Bah!

Transparency would be nice. But I'm not holding my breath. I'm experimenting with alternatives. Already found one that pays better than Google does on a poor day (ie, average day as of late). If Google can do what ever voodoo they do and keep the earnings high, all right. Otherwise, I will fire them.

Goobao




msg:3362775
 10:06 am on Jun 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

I believe that the valued website can earn high eCPM, rather than garbage sites.

<snip>

[edited by: trillianjedi at 12:07 pm (utc) on June 9, 2007]
[edit reason] Please see our TOS. Thanks :) [/edit]

nonni




msg:3362840
 2:18 pm on Jun 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

I believe that the valued website can earn high eCPM, rather than garbage sites.

My experience has been just the opposite. I have several sites - all but one are unique, quality content that I worked many hours to develop and polish. But one site (no longer active) was something I just threw together, and I bought cheap traffic from another source, knowing that people would soon get bored and click adsense. They did. That site consistently had the highest click through rates, and was in the middle as far as earnings per click goes.

I never found enough traffic to retire to the Bahamas, and eventually got bored with it. On a daily basis, I was making 30-50% more than I spent. Sometimes more, sometimes I would be a little negative for the day. But I didn't like what it did to me - the compulsion to check stats is far greater when there is a risk of losing your own money, not just making less money. And the site was crap ... although it was compliant with all the TOS, it was not something I was proud of. At one point, I decided I would rather do quality sites that people would want to read, rather than scrape the sidewalk with my tongue for dimes.

Maybe someday the system will be set up so that garbage sites lose and quality sites win. Right now, it is a little more complex. Plenty of garbage sites do flounder. If they learn a sharp practice or exploit a loophole and build a system around that, they can often do quite well. And quality sites do languish - the spam sites that get thousands of paid links often gets the search engine placement and traffic, while the person devoted to a topic may or may not see their eforts rewarded by visitors or ad revenue.

I know, I know ... life isn't fair. I never said it was. Just my .00002 cents in response to someone who implied it is. Being a writer or publisher has always been about more than quality.

The advertisers brought money. The money attracted sharks. The sharks are feasting at the expense of both the advertisers and the publishers. Maybe Google is doing a better job of regulating the market (their long-term sucess depends on it), but there a zillion players, and it is not an easy job to spot everyone that bends the TOS or manipulates the system without adding any real value.

wgonz




msg:3362966
 6:00 pm on Jun 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

Zet."(I know, I know, it's PPC and it's an auction based system, and it might have to do with supply and demand, so there is no reason that these values should correlate at all, and also I am free to leave the program at all times. No need to remind me of that.)"I hope this will avoid a lot of classic replies!

Mike73I fully understand you. I've been with AS since the beginning. This year I applied several tools and time to understand why a quality content site with more traffic can see lowered its earnings.

Even if I am far from final conclusions (hard in this dynamic environment), I feel confident in share here some points.

1 It isn't enough observe a channel 24 or 48 hours. I saw consequence of a change that toke several weeks before settle down.

2 Other ad and affiliate networks, in my case, are still behind by far from adsense performance.

3 In the last hours it seems that something is happening in the other side of this business, in adwords. I still have some hope that big G will fix the distortions and reestablish acceptable quality levels (= better earning for us, hopefully).

I hope this helps.

europeforvisitors




msg:3362969
 6:06 pm on Jun 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

But since April, it's just been going down, down, down, even though CTR is higher than ever, and now I'm averaging less than $6 a day.

The higher CTR could be a factor. Consider:

1) There are only so many high-paying clicks to go around for any given topic. Let's say there are 1,000 high-paying fluffy-widgets.com clicks for "cat-hair widgets" available each day. You've been averaging 50. Your CTR increases, and you could use 75. But, since Google needs to spread its "cat-hair widgets" ads around, you're still getting enough ads for 50 clicks, or maybe 60 if you're lucky. You get a higher percentage of lower-paying ads and clicks than you did before, and your average EPC and eCPM inevitably go down because of supply and demand.

AND/OR...

2) Maybe you've optimized your ads for clicks (for example, by blending ads into navigation bars of the same color, or by placing recangles within content) and you're now getting more clicks from clueless users who can't distinguish ads from navigation links. This results in a lower conversion rate, which in turns leads to a higher "smart pricing" discount for advertisers and a lower average EPC for you.

incrediBILL




msg:3362983
 6:23 pm on Jun 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

I've been getting 40,000 impressions per day .... I started averaging $13 a day, and that went up to about $20 by March

Something about this doesn't pass the sniff test as 40K AdSense page impressions a day can easily make $100s per day, not $10.

I suspect you have other issues like your site traffic is garbage meaning the wrong search terms are bringing people to your site. Either the visitors don't care about the topic or it's not buyers/shoppers coming to the site.

For instance a site that allows people to upload images and do photo critiques will get poor payouts as people aren't looking to shop vs. sites about digital camera reviews.

If your site focus and keywords are wrong, adjusting these factors can easily double or triple your payouts.

night707




msg:3363339
 9:21 am on Jun 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

It seems, that adsense is now maximising profits by cutting payments to publishers. With reducing payouts step by step since they are perhaps testing how low they can go.

Pitty, that there is no real competition.

workingNOMAD




msg:3363356
 9:53 am on Jun 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Another one bites the dust. That's more adsense $ for the rest of us....

centime




msg:3363472
 1:22 pm on Jun 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Hi All

I haven't seen this mentioned much in this thread, so I 'll tell you, from the point of view of the adwords advertiser,

The conversion rate of your advertisers is one off the biggest factors in adsense income,

if they're making money they compete to spend more an make more, if they're losing , well they dial down their spend, if they're losing money an adsense is only a means of maintaining branding,

fixed budgets guarranttee that increased traffic is rewarded with static or dropping income

Atomic




msg:3363648
 6:06 pm on Jun 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

2) Maybe you've optimized your ads for clicks (for example, by blending ads into navigation bars of the same color, or by placing recangles within content) and you're now getting more clicks from clueless users who can't distinguish ads from navigation links. This results in a lower conversion rate, which in turns leads to a higher "smart pricing" discount for advertisers and a lower average EPC for you.

Take note of this because it's, in my opinion, a key to long term success. When I first included AdSense on my pages I blended my ads and saw income jump significantly. Smartpricing soon followed and I had a lot of clicks with low eCPM. At the start of the year I implented a new design in which ad units were clearly seperate from my content and have watched both traffic, eCPM and overal income triple. I feel a lot better about the arrangment as well. I feel better knowing that the clicks are almost never accidental.

inbound




msg:3363664
 6:44 pm on Jun 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

I hope I don't get panned for this, I know it's a little off topic (as I'm going to talk about AdSense for Search earnings rather than AdSense for Content).

I can't say there has been a reduction in earnings recently, in fact Friday marked the first day where eCPM finished above $50 (remember that's for search pages). Normally it hovers around $30 (but growing gradually). The figures are statistically significant I think, given the number of searches performed each day; however the site brings commercially orientated traffic so it would not be fair to expect such eCPM from non commercial sites.

>> #1 Tip based on my experience

Create a really good Google Custom Search Engine and make it clear to your visitors that they can search selected sites in the area they are interested in. You have to carefully word things to keep within guidelines but if you can get a small percentage of your visitors searching then you can earn money whilst providing a good feature for your visitors. We've seen people come back again and again to the Custom Search we have.

P.S. Google Custom Search Engines allow you to filter the sites that show in results, either by boosting selected ones or only showing particular sites. You can also add much more if you have the time. There's an initial limit of 5,000 'annotations' but that should be fine for most people (if not you just need to get more people involved as you can add 5,000 annotations for every account associated with the CSE).

Links:

Google CSE Homepage [google.com...]
Google CSE Blog [googlecustomsearch.blogspot.com...]
Goocle CSE Discussion Group [groups.google.com...]

wgonz




msg:3363686
 7:22 pm on Jun 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

I agree with Atomic and EFV[2]. Especially if adlink units are very similar or very close to internal site navigation links.

Our visitor must know where the links lead to (I took away the adlink units because its lack of information).

In my opinion with the blending we tell the user that we trust in the ad. Its disappointing if after the click the user unexpectedly finds an MFA.

Hobbs




msg:3363723
 8:07 pm on Jun 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

with the blending we tell the user that we trust in the ad

No, some blend to boost CTR, others blend to assimilate the ads with the overall site design, blending is either an esthetic or a financial decision, trusting the ad or the network serving it has nothing to do with it.

If what you are saying is true, then blending would be an unethical act where the ad is served as a hidden part of the content and they click it under the assumption and trust that it is a link that we are providing, I smell smartpricing here.

This is a very grey area, and everyone's take on it will most probably be unique to their morals and aspirations.

inactivist




msg:3363738
 8:35 pm on Jun 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Create a really good Google Custom Search Engine and make it clear to your visitors that they can search selected sites in the area they are interested in.

Thanks for that one - I'll check it out.

This 48 message thread spans 2 pages: 48 ( [1] 2 > >
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