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This 58 message thread spans 2 pages: < < 58 ( 1 [2]     
AdSense Disabling Arbitrage Accounts by June 1st - Part 3
June 8th is the date for the second round
heyday




msg:3359126
 2:17 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)

Thread continued from: [webmasterworld.com...]


I was just forwarded another email from someone I know who made it past lasts months Adsense Ban only to find that last night they are getting cut off as well.

The email they forwarded says they have untill June 8th......so he gets 4 days instead of 14 days like last month.

I think it's pretty funny to read the Inside Adsense post today.......kind of a message to the arbitrage crowd I think.....

I'm sorry "Inside Adsense" guys but when you are marketing a product....its crazy to put links on your site to take the customer a way.

heyday

[edited by: jatar_k at 3:15 pm (utc) on June 5, 2007]

 

calcompet




msg:3363406
 11:15 am on Jun 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

I did not get an email, but my earnings for May shows a zero.
Anyone else not get their earnings report yet?

I guess you can consider my site an "arbitrage" site. Geesh, I at least want an email...

Green_Grass




msg:3364237
 11:50 am on Jun 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

Well.... the adWords and adSense integration has been taken a step forward. G is also hitting the arbitageurs from the adWords side now, by increasing minimum bids to USD 5 and USD 10.

I think, in the long run they only want adSense on pages which do well in SERPS and adWords for e commerce sites that fulfil their quality requirements.

Speaking from experience. My ecommerce site is doing fine in adWords ( it also has adSense). One of my newer sites which consistently makes a loss in the adwords/adsense game is O.K.

The other two sites which sometimes make a 'profit' have been knocked off the radar. There goes Branding! How the heck am I gonna get incoming links etc without exposure? I guess it is back to PURCHASING links.

newsecular




msg:3364260
 12:28 pm on Jun 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

Yes, doing the AW/AS thing has for many been a way to build up natural traffic on a site, like critical mass in a community.
That option seems gone, congratulations to the ones that were able to do it before the crackdown.

farmboy




msg:3364355
 2:35 pm on Jun 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

G is also hitting the arbitageurs from the adWords side now, by increasing minimum bids to USD 5 and USD 10.

There's a long thread over on the AdWords board and I haven't read it all, but the posts I have read seem to indicate Google is hitting some non-arbs by mistake along with the arbs.

Or have I just been reading the sour grapes posts?

FarmBoy

Green_Grass




msg:3364364
 2:45 pm on Jun 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

"Google is hitting some non-arbs by mistake along with the arbs"

Primary target seems to be affiliates.

Secondary target seems to be those guys who did not get the adSense ban, but have an arbitrage component.

netmeg




msg:3364371
 2:58 pm on Jun 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

Not all AS/AW sites have been hit. Mine haven't been; in fact the minimum bid dropped over the weekend from .04 and .03 down to .02 for most (780 out of 993) of my search terms. But I'm also providing unique content that can't be found (at least in this configuration) anywhere else. And AW only accounts for around 10% of my traffic.

zett




msg:3364380
 3:00 pm on Jun 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

Secondary target seems to be those guys who did not get the adSense ban, but have an arbitrage component.

Agree, but Google is hopefully still in their early beginnings with this one. I just blocked a bunch of sites today that are definitely MFA with very very very thin content. And they are still happily advertising on Adsense, also exploiting their hundreds of domains.

I would really like to discuss the entries in my filter list with some senior guy at Google. Whenever I am working on my filter list (a stupid task BTW), I am thinking, like, "How would they (at Google) react if they saw my filtered domains? What would they have to say when I showed them the sites on their screen?" Just allow 30 seconds of discussion per site, and you end up arguing 1 hour and 40 minutes!

You see, from my point of view, almost every site in my list is ultimate cr*p. If there was a Cr*p Site Contest, it would be quite hard to determine the winner. None of these sites add anything to the user experience (except making the user frustrated, which is also a valid experience, even if undesired)!

Green_Grass




msg:3364383
 3:03 pm on Jun 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

"Not all AS/AW sites have been hit"

Yup, as I said before. Two of my sites which show a consistent arbitrage loss are o.k. with more and more 'GREAT' keywords.
The two that show a minor profit like..3-5 $ a day are hit with USD 5-10 bids.

Content_ed




msg:3364451
 4:06 pm on Jun 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

I would really like to discuss the entries in my filter list with some senior guy at Google. Whenever I am working on my filter list (a stupid task BTW), I am thinking, like, "How would they (at Google) react if they saw my filtered domains? What would they have to say when I showed them the sites on their screen?" Just allow 30 seconds of discussion per site, and you end up arguing 1 hour and 40 minutes!

I sent them the whole content of our filter last week and bet them $10 per entry that they were violating the Adwords agreement. I'm just hoping it tweaks somebody's curiosity enough to show it to their boss. It's not a sure gainer on our part, a number of the entries in our filter are genuinely competing sites or sites whose ads we feel detract from the quality of our site. But I was willing to bet that over 100 of them were pure MFA, zero quality landing pages of nothing but ads.

I haven't heard back yet, maybe should have offered to wager $50 per entry.

netmeg




msg:3364480
 4:36 pm on Jun 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

They'll never comment on anyone's site but your own, no matter how bad or good it is. And that's probably the best policy.

malachite




msg:3365309
 12:40 pm on Jun 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

But I was willing to bet that over 100 of them were pure MFA, zero quality landing pages of nothing but ads.

With you there. Google may have been zapping arbitrageurs, but sure hasn't been zapping MFAs.

I've just been checking out some of the cr*p that's scraped snippets and is linking to one of my sites. Total link farms, no content whatsoever, maximum number of adsense and adlink blocks.

Two of them were showing pages filled with links to pr0n sites, with very graphic banner ads to boot. Sheesh. C'mon Google, hurry up with round two.

Hobbs




msg:3365314
 12:50 pm on Jun 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

> filled with links to pr0n sites

That's nothing
I've seen porn advertisers with googlesyndication.com adwords ads on parked pages, just in case somone tells you Google AdWords is porn free or Google is not making money off pornography.

Hobbs




msg:3365319
 12:57 pm on Jun 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

[google.com...]

AdSense for domains must adhere strictly to Google’s AdSense policies. Domain names submitted to may not contain or link to any of the following content: illegal activity; site promotion of incentive or fraudulent clicking; violation of trademark (and related rights), copyright, trade secret, patent or other intellectual property right of any third party; software which contains a virus, worm or other code that could be damaging or harmful to a user's computer system or stored information; libelous, defamatory, obscene or hateful content; or any subject matter not in line with Google policy

Content_ed




msg:3365354
 1:52 pm on Jun 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

With you there. Google may have been zapping arbitrageurs, but sure hasn't been zapping MFAs.

Yeah, I heard back about my bet with the standard bedbug letter:

I've forwarded your comments to our team of specialists so that they can look into this issue further.

I wonder if they use special printers that handle toilet paper rolls and use publisher feedback stock the restrooms?

callivert




msg:3365387
 2:25 pm on Jun 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

doing the AW/AS thing has for many been a way to build up natural traffic on a site, like critical mass in a community.

I'm curious how adsense on your site helps build natural traffic, with or without adwords.

econman




msg:3365631
 6:31 pm on Jun 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

I'm curious how adsense on your site helps build natural traffic, with or without adwords.

I think Adwords was being used to bring traffic and exposure; Adsense was being used to offset some of the cost. If the money made on Adsense equalled the money spent on Adwords, the effective cost of obtaining the exposure was zero.

Johndem




msg:3369622
 6:29 pm on Jun 16, 2007 (gmt 0)

Interesting... will they also close your account if you use another PPC SE to arbitrate? Using for example MSN to drive traffic to adsense pages

And is it true that when your CTR is too high (30% and up) they close your account too? Even if you're not arbitrating?

econman




msg:3369856
 2:30 am on Jun 17, 2007 (gmt 0)

To the extent a pattern has emerged, it seems to be mostly a matter of very limited content, so that users are pretty much forced to hit the back button or click on an ad. That fits the AW/AS arbitrage model, as well as the recent changes which penalize poor landing pages, being discussed in the Adwords forum.

Scurramunga




msg:3369865
 3:07 am on Jun 17, 2007 (gmt 0)

To the extent a pattern has emerged, it seems to be mostly a matter of very limited conte

As I mwntioned earlier, they have raised nthe bar one notch and in doing so they have sanctioned anything else above that minimum threshold. MFA owners now have a template to work by.

internetguy




msg:3369911
 5:23 am on Jun 17, 2007 (gmt 0)

And AW only accounts for around 10% of my traffic.

I think that may be key to why you're not getting banned yet. If your traffic is mainly from AdWords, it raises a red flag.

Green_Grass




msg:3370021
 8:47 am on Jun 17, 2007 (gmt 0)

Scurramunga

You really donot need to worry. In the long run MFA are dead. It is clearly G policy.

Even if websites can mange adSense on sites with 'minimal' content, they simply can't use adWords to drive the traffic. The adWords landing page requirements are getting real tough to meet. Traffic from other sources is limited.

If they can't use adWords, they will not appear on adSense publisher's sites!

G is working on both adwords and adsense together to knock off MFA's.

Only genuine sites are being allowed to advertise on adwords. Sites which are ecommerce, solid content with maybe affiliate liks, solid info. sites which give an option to a surfer to exit/ surf without necessarily having to click adsense i.e sites with good navigation.

This is my practical experience.

Scurramunga




msg:3370108
 10:43 am on Jun 17, 2007 (gmt 0)

Green_Grass,
I certainly hope my concerns prove to be misplaced. It's just that I have seen scores of new MFA's that have not shown thir ugly heads till now. I have also seen some mutations of the old MFA's. Maybe I'm being somewhat impatient.

[edited by: Scurramunga at 10:44 am (utc) on June 17, 2007]

Green_Grass




msg:3370175
 1:20 pm on Jun 17, 2007 (gmt 0)

"Maybe I'm being somewhat impatient. "

Yes, there is going to be period of desperation by MFA's. They will try anything to stay up there. They will experiment, mutate and what not BUT in the long run as traffic sources dry up they will DIE. Soon they will realize that only a high quality site many advertise on adWords and get traffic from SERPS. Whether they have the capacity and patience to fight for SERP position is another story.

The rules of advertising on the web have been changed by G, irrevocably.

nomis5




msg:3370389
 8:21 pm on Jun 17, 2007 (gmt 0)

The rules have not changed, the rules are that Google wants to make money, the publishers want to make money and the advertisers want to make money, and we still do. The strategy has not changed one iota, the plan has changed by a tiny degree. The amount of publishers affected by June 1st is miniscule as far as I can see. Does anyone have any HARD evidence that masses of MFA publishers have been banned?

cmendla




msg:3370595
 3:08 am on Jun 18, 2007 (gmt 0)

Does anyone have any HARD evidence that masses of MFA publishers have been banned?

I wouldn't call it hard evidence, but I have seen a definite upward kink in impressions, clicks, ecpm and daily earnings that began right around may 18th.

This was after a steady decline since about sept/oct 06. Granted, a majority of my sites are seasonally related and this is the season. (also keep in mind that my sites are small by most measures including overall traffic).

However, from oct 06 to may 07, I was doing about 30% less each month than the same month a year earlier. Come the end of may, things started to do a major swing. So far, I am about 5% ahead of the same period last year for overall $$, about 20% up in page impressions and slightly down (in ecpm). That is quite a jump and since I'm comparing the same months in 06/07 the seasonal adjustments should be built in.

I think that several good things might be happening. (all is unsubstantiated theory)

1. With the major mfas gone, smaller publishers are now getting the 'real advertisers' and not the .01/click MFA ads. That would explain the ecpm

2. A lot of my content was being scraped. It's possible that some MFAs were getting into the natural serps by means of scraped content.

3. Users only have so much keyboard time. Suppose someone is looking for turquoise, battery powered, lemon scented widgets. With the MFAs, they would waste clicks and time going to useless sites. Now that the MFAs are gone, they may be going back to the serps if they don't find exactly what they wanted and giving publisher's sites a second and third chance to be viewed.

Again, I don't have hard data but I am seeing a 'hockey stick' curve in my stats. I have been doing some searches trying to find the MFAer's haunts. It seems that they have been torpedoed and are trying to salvage what they can. (I don't want to state any specific ideas that they are floating, but they did seem pretty lame. Also, they seemed to be out of the adwords/adsense arena for the time being)

This hasn't even had a chance to be affected by

(1) People who had a negative Pavlovian response to ads from MFA overexposure now clicking again (That might never happen with some surfers)

(2) The adwords people to start trusting the content side. It appears that google is going to give them tools to track site performance. This might mean more and better ads coming for some publishers.

cg

<edited to revise stats (checked them again) shortly after the original posting>

robinponty




msg:3370756
 8:08 am on Jun 18, 2007 (gmt 0)

A small question..

Does google mean that it will Ban only arbitrage (Buying adwords and selling adsense on MFAs) or they are going to Ban the other MFA sites also which gets the traffic from other search engines but yes are necessarily MFAs.

In Google organic results, I already do not come across such sites, but these sites have really spoiled other search engines.

May be google banning adsense accounts of such will defeat the cause of making these MFAs and hence better internet everywhere.. ANY COMMENTS?

Green_Grass




msg:3370789
 8:52 am on Jun 18, 2007 (gmt 0)

There has been a two pronged attack on MFA's.

My understanding is as follows:

The adSense a/c of blatant MFA's have been disabled. Traffic source is not the issue here.

On the adWord side it has become impossible for MFA ( with little content or no content) to advertise on a/c of very high keyword prices.

Affiliates with thin pages have also been hit.

At the same time they say in the adSense blog that adwords and adsense together is O.K.

if

The Landing page requirements are met.

The landing page requirements require

Lot of unique content
Outgoing links ( giving a choice to surfers to exit without clicking on adsense)
Good navigation
Contact / privacy policy etc

In short a 'proper' website and NOT single pages with primarily adSense.

This will knock off arbitrage profits and only good sites will survive on the adWords side improving user experience.

So, I feel in the long run, MFA's will slowly die. Only very smart operators with good websites who can leverage the adSense / adword 'game' may make some money. But don't count on it.

Scurramunga




msg:3377081
 11:23 pm on Jun 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

On the adWord side it has become impossible for MFA ( with little content or no content) to advertise on a/c of very high keyword prices

It's now late June and from the observations I have made, MFAs are alive and well. Just today, I found a couple of MFAs (which I thought had been terminated) back again, alive and well. I had removed these MFAs from my filter about a week ago and coincidently I noticed that my earnings plunge to a 2-3 month low shortly thereafter. Now that I have re- killed this vermin I am hoping things will pick up once again.

This 58 message thread spans 2 pages: < < 58 ( 1 [2]
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