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This 513 message thread spans 18 pages: < < 513 ( 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 > >     
AdSense Disabling Arbitrage Accounts by June 1st
Freddy81




msg:3342642
 3:37 am on May 18, 2007 (gmt 0)

They told me my account will be disabled at 1st June, and also added that I'll receive payment for all outstanding earnings in accordance with the standard AdSense payment schedule.

For this day (17 May), does it mean that they will pay for April 1-30 earnings, or for May (1-18) also?

 

farmboy




msg:3347734
 4:13 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

If someone has a real interest in finding out what kind of content got banned then PM me and I will give you a link.

I just sent you a note.

I had original content written by professional freelance writers in the US and the major downfall of my site was that my pages were primarily single page fact sheets and I was using Adwords to drive traffic while I waited to get organic rankings. My articles were on average between 350 - 450 words.

Is it possible these hired writers were taking text from other sites and Google got a lot of copyright complaints which led to your account being closed?

FarmBoy

need2bdiscreet




msg:3347747
 4:32 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

Hi FarmBoy,

I did random audits and the writers understood the legal ramifications of stealing content. They were paid well for their work and in my opinion were very professional.

need2bdiscreet




msg:3347786
 5:17 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

Someone leaked

Sorry but I can no longer give out links someone shared as there was a big spike from multiple I.P.s so I cannot hand out any URLs

I will answer questions but that is about it.

To those that I have corresponded with and were sincere I appreciate it and if you want more info I will try and help. To the one that leaked and you know who you are because I do you ruined it for everyone. The sites are offline now.

Good luck everyone and keep your nose clean.

Thanks

trannack




msg:3347913
 7:42 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

Need2bdicreet - I for one applaud your honesty and candour with sharing your experience. This is what this thread should have been about. Learning and sharing experience.

I've not been banned - and fingers crossed I won't. But I am all too well aware that sometimes you get scooped up in the net - and whilst we all are happy to rid the net of the useless one page three ad-block sites, it is not constructive to harp on and on about the pleasure others are seeing with this demise. We all know, we've all ranted and raved time and time again. Enough. Move on - learn from this - and share the experience so others don't try to to replicate the same.

I'm sorry that in your aim to help - it has caused you more problems.

No doubt, you will pick yourself up - perhaps have more faith in your own ability to write good content, and spring back into life.

martinibuster




msg:3347937
 8:28 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

Sorry but I can no longer give out links someone shared as there was a big spike from multiple I.P.s so I cannot hand out any URLs...

If I had seen your offer to hand out URLs I would have removed it to save you the trouble.

It has been alleged that a few members of the AdSense forum have sabotaged sites they didn't approve of. Sorry someone abused your trust.

Never never place your URL in your profile unless it's something not connected to your real sites.

Never reveal your sites to anyone. Not even my friends know more than one or two sites. Discretion is of the essence. I have nothing to hide, but you never know what drooling twit will get hold of the information and do something evil with it.

[edited by: martinibuster at 1:18 am (utc) on May 24, 2007]

andrewshim




msg:3348035
 10:22 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

Never never place your URL in your profile unless it's something not connected to your real sites.

Never reveal your sites to anyone. Not even my friends know more than one or two sites. Discretion is of the essence. I have nothing to hide, but you never know what drooling twit will get hold of the information and do something evil with it.

correct... and try not to piss off any drooling twits...

sailorjwd




msg:3348051
 10:59 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

"drooling twits"

Hey! no personal attacks!

Apparently folks only attack fellow posters' websites on this forum - likely those MFA people or other cool dudes.

robognome




msg:3348074
 11:32 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

Without being judgemental or taking sides, let me see if I understand what has been discussed here, then speculate on where this is going in the future.

Synopsis:
It seems that the gist of this thread so far is that MFA sites are subject to having their adsense accounts disabled because Google having these sites in their content network is detrimental to their business model.

Basicely MFA causes the content network revenue to tank because so very few advertisers are willing to either show ads there or pay more then a penny or two for them when they do. Also the low ad bids makes adsense less appealing to real authority sites since the payout is so low.

The wholesale arbitrage crackdown:

Arbitrage sites represent a very high concentration of MFA sites so Google has decided to officially declare the arbitrage business model as incompatible with their own. Since the goal of these sites is to spend less on adwords than they collect from adsense, this will probably improve Google's bottom line.

Hence the recent emails. They seem to be careful not appear to pass judgment on a site's content ("friendly" sounding emails). But in evicting these sites they are taking out a large number of site that are depressing the revenue from the content network, collateral damage notwithstanding.

So arbitrage is now seen by Google as an easily identifiable footprint (computers can do it) that serves as a good-enough footprint for MFA sites.

More Targets to Come?

Going forward it looks like if there are any other footprints for the MFA site, these too will be declared as "incompatible business models". More friendly emails from Google.

So what would these footprints be. Perhaps I missed it (no thread search here) but most of the discussion is Adwords / Adsense arbitrage. Is Adsense arbitrage from other PPC engines in danger? Probably not for a while yet.

Provided they could automate detection of this cross-engine arbitrage (which might be difficult at best), my guess is that this would also serve to identify a high concentration of MFA sites. However, they would likely become entangled in legal issues fairly quickly (civil suites, not criminal) if they were to do a wholesale closure of these adsense accounts, since this would clobber the revenue for many of their competitors' PPC programs - at least in the short term.

The only way that detecting this footprint automatically might become feasible would for the SE's and PPC engines to form joint ventures to detect these types of site through information sharing etc. Provided they see it as being in their mutual interest Doesn't seem to likely right now. But keep an ear out - especially if Yahoo gets their act together somewhat.

So Google will probably continue work on their semantic algorithms to flag for human review or just outright detect the footprint of less sophisticated forms of content creation used on mass-produced MFA sites: nonsense markov generated text, inappropriate sysnonym replacement and the like.

So, I am betting that the cross-engine arbitrage is safe for the near future. Does anyone disagree? What other MFA footprints might be detectable?

BigDave




msg:3348076
 11:37 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

So, I am betting that the cross-engine arbitrage is safe for the near future. Does anyone disagree?

I'm guessing that those that have already gotten their letter because if their cross-engine traffic would disagree. There is at least one report so far.

robognome




msg:3348079
 11:58 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

because if their cross-engine traffic would disagree.
Sorry. I don't get your meaning. Is this some way for google to detect cross-engine arbitrage.

Does adsense figure this out from the referral info from other PPC engines? (I guess that's possible) Or are you talking about something else?

fischermx




msg:3348088
 12:17 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)


Sorry. I don't get your meaning. Is this some way for google to detect cross-engine arbitrage.

Does adsense figure this out from the referral info from other PPC engines?

Of course!
Actually, the referral is sent to Google in the Javascript code to call the ads.

robognome




msg:3348089
 12:19 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

*duh* After re-reading I figured out that you meant "because OF their cross-engine traffic..".

Seriously, how would they detect this? Does the adsense code collect referrer information? Granted they could, but *do* they? I'm sure a lot of people have analyzed the living daylights out of this piece of javascript.

I wonder if those that got the letter for cross-engine traffic where at some time in the past using adwords to drive traffic to the site. Google may not care about timing -- The fact that a site used adwords at some point and adsense at some point may be all they care about - regardless of overlap.

Anyone here got the letter and never used adwords to drive traffic to the site? - even if adsense was not implemented at the time.

robognome




msg:3348094
 12:28 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Of course!
(Slipped by)

If that is true then it seems that Google is nosier than I thought. How naive of me.

It's okay to "be evil" I guess, as long as you fight on side of the angels *sarcasm*.

rehabguy




msg:3348095
 12:31 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

If they are disabling your Adsense account based on arbitrage, are they diabling your Adwords account as well?

fischermx




msg:3348096
 12:32 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Actually, when you receive adwords traffic from the content network, you can read the referral recursively in the URL string.
I've found many times, a click comes from an MFA which in turns come from another MFA, and on and on.

fischermx




msg:3348097
 12:34 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

If they are disabling your Adsense account based on arbitrage, are they disabling your Adwords account as well?

You know what I've been trying to guess from the comments if it is so, but I think the adwords account is not canceled.
Actually, in normal banning cases the adwords account for the same user are not canceled.

europeforvisitors




msg:3348099
 12:41 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

If that is true then it seems that Google is nosier than I thought. How naive of me.

It's okay to "be evil" I guess, as long as you fight on side of the angels *sarcasm*.

What's evil about detecting and neutralizing click arbitrage? Google has as much right to defend its interests as we do to defend ours.

Elsmarc




msg:3348109
 12:51 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Has anyone with an MFA site who doesn't use AdWords NOT gotten 'the friendly email'?

I was under the impression that MFA sites are being targeted with *some* arbitrage sites being hit as 'collateral damage'. For example, shoemoney apparently does arbitrage and he's not having a problem.

Note that I'm neutral in this other than having seen a drop in $ per click, and a drop in advertisers, on my site starting in January of this year. I had no idea what arbitrage sites were, but I know what MFA sites are. I never thought much about any of this until noticing this thread when it started, except that it has appeared to me that Google searches have been declining in relevance (or appear to be for me) in large part because of so many MFA sites.

I have noticed a significant increase in visitors to my site since Monday. That could be coincidence and probably is, but I've also noticed a whole bunch of new/different advertisements coming up on my site and a small increase in $ per click.

Could something bigger than we are discussing in this thread be happening?

Something else is I've gotten a couple of 'good' emails from G over the last 2 months. I'd explain but you know the drill... "You promise not to reveal...." Has anyone else gotten 'good' emails lately?

chikung




msg:3348113
 12:55 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

What if those who are using adword account should not be allowed to use adsense? and vice versa?

koan




msg:3348122
 1:07 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Basicely MFA causes the content network revenue to tank because so very few advertisers are willing to either show ads there or pay more then a penny or two for them when they do.

Man, if MFA sites truly depress the overall content network revenue for honest publishers because of their dismal conversion rates, than MFA sites owners are really, really evil because to make their thousands a day, they're removing hundreds of thousands from the market.

robognome




msg:3348127
 1:19 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Google has as much right to defend its interests...
This is true and right on cue. :)

Business is not about good or evil, it is about making money. Defending a business interest is in pursuit of that goal. This by itself is nearly perfectly orthogonal to good / evil considerations.

The question of "should a company defend its business interest" in a given manner at an individual level, is subject to some judgement about morality or propriety.

Once a company goes public they are bound by case law nowdays to largely ignore moral or propriety consideration in favor of shareholder value.

Like I intimated earlier, I really should have not assumed otherwise.

robognome




msg:3348129
 1:23 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

What if those who are using adword account should not be allowed to use adsense? and vice versa?
No worries here. I have both. It's using them for the same website that raises the flag.
heyday




msg:3348153
 1:54 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

This was brought up a few posts back. Everyone that I have talked to that has ben canceled has had earnings over 10K a month.....

Anyone here been canceled and your earnings were LOWER than 10K a month?

Also from my research and personaly spekaing with 5 users with banned accounts.....I think the CTR rate is a huge red flag. All users I have spoken with had CTR rates of 35 to 50%.

I was also told a long time ago by someone who was told by those who are high up at Adsense that anyone with over a 20% CTR is "On the radar"

My personal opinion is that there is now some type of automated way that Google can now track conversions for Adwords and compare them to the publisher site they came from.

It would make sense to me that a high CTR would also mean that those potenial "buyers" or "leads" would be lower quality......

So here is my guess on the process to get banned...

1. There is a certain dollar or click volume or CTR percent that tiggers an account for an automated or manual review.

2. Stats are compared by looking at advertisers conversion rates where data is availalbe.

3. Other factors thath are looked at is the adwords traffic generated and if that is the main traffic source

4. Accounts with "bad" stats are then given a manual review and a decision is made to cancel an account.....I'm sure that individual accounts are talked about in a meeting....names written on a white board

5. Email is sent out with the "bad" news. I'm surprised that a two week shutdown is given....back in March it was less than 24 hours for other folks.

Personaly I think it is more stats driven than the actualy "look" of a site.

My 2 cents....

Again if you were canned and your earnings were less than 10K a month I'd like to know.

heyday

See_It_Now




msg:3348154
 1:57 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

The 'detection problem' is not a problem, I think. Just start with the biggest Adsense payees and work down. Exactly how many people are there making 5 (or 6!) figures a month?

Check (by hand if necessary) and see how these giants are doing it. If any are 'playing the system', stop them.

The definition of 'playing the system' is based on the effects and side effects of what they are doing, and whether or not it is in line with Google's long term interests.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a change in the terms of service announced soon, codifying Google's new behavior.

farmboy




msg:3348156
 2:06 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

What other MFA footprints might be detectable?

A lot of publishers are cautiously optimistic they are finally about to see some positive changes to AdWords/AdSense. If that question is seen as someone trying to find the next angle / scam / trick / shortcut or whatever term, it just might stir up some anger.

robognome




msg:3348168
 2:28 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Also from my research and personaly spekaing with 5 users with banned accounts.....I think the CTR rate is a huge red flag. All users I have spoken with had CTR rates of 35 to 50%.

That is some key intel.

Now that you mention it, I have arrived a some of these mass generated sites with junk content (spun or generated nonsense) with no obvious navigation other than the ppc ads.

As a visitor, I will click on anything just to get away from that page - creating a high CTR to be sure.

I imagine this more than anything other than outright click fraud is the type of site that would motivate an account closure. Junk content creates junk clicks.

Scurramunga




msg:3348189
 2:46 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

If that question is seen as someone trying to find the next angle / scam / trick / shortcut or whatever term, it just might stir up some anger

I hope that in the event mfa's reincarnate themselves into a new form, Google opens up a little and becomes receptive to publisher feedback. Only this way can we stop born again mfa's in their tracks before they multiply and repopulate the web.

Just to add: if mfa's are allowed to remain in adwords, we haven't seen the end of the MFA ( made for Ads ) model.

Junk content creates junk clicks.

....thus causing genuine advertisers and even many publishers to lose confidence in the content network thereby dumping it. In some niches the lack of genuine advertisers within adblocks makes the network look like a virtual junkyard.

[edited by: Scurramunga at 3:13 am (utc) on May 24, 2007]

robognome




msg:3348245
 3:56 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

if mfa's are allowed to remain in adwords, we haven't seen the end of the MFA ( made for Ads ) model.

Do you really think they will be interested in losing that many revenue sources? ;)

There will alway be some way of gaming the system. Most of us "game" the system to some degree and in some way (not talking strictly about adsense or even the web here) it just a question of finding how far we're comfortable pushing the envelope. In its more benign forms we like to call it optimization.

Since like most competitive environments it is a zero-sum game so every time a bunch of you, my fellow webmasters, optimize your sites, ethically or otherwise, I lose business in theory. If one of you is very successful I lose more - unless I become an affiate (heh).

These MFA or blackhat or evil-spawn-of-satan webmasters are doing the same but doing so in ways we don't have the stones -- or the bad taste -- or the creativity -- or lack of ethical qualms to do.

Earlier someone warned that one of the question could be seen as looking for a new angle. Duh. Are the thought-police on patrol? Of course I want to know what the angles are and where the edges are. This isn't my weekend hobby. That doesn't mean I will move right up to that edge. But if I am very much farther away from it than the rest of you, I'm toast.

heyday




msg:3348279
 5:27 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Just talked to another person that got shut down about 2 hours ago with the same email......this person had just started and had made like $3,000 so far this month...... so I guess the blows my idea that they were only targeting big players of $10,000 or more....

heyday

lammert




msg:3348282
 5:37 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Just talked to another person that got shut down about 2 hours ago (...)

Which indicates that Google is still checking accounts and sending them the "unsupported business model" email when they see fit. Working top-bottom could well be the approach, first checking and informing the larger accounts, then going down to the accounts with less profit, effectively weeding out a complete industry by June 1st.

fischermx




msg:3348293
 5:50 am on May 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

shut down about 2 hours ago

Really two hours ago?
Those are not working hours, not even in California.

These emails are totally automated!

This 513 message thread spans 18 pages: < < 513 ( 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 > >
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