| 3:09 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Are people still getting the "disabled" email from google?
| 3:14 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Not sure, but one can only hope.
|Are people still getting the "disabled" email from google? |
| 3:55 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
>>like an idiot
Lacie, I know exactly the attitude you're referring to. You can see a lot of it coming across online, too.
| 4:18 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Attitudes don't matter. In the end it's all comes down to which of these business models prevail and which of them sink.
| 6:16 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
I think that in the end it comes down to how you feel about yourself when you go to bed at night.
1) Do you feel proud of yourself that you were clever to find a way to game a system and earn tons of money, just like a successful con artist would feel, or
2) Do you feel proud of yourself that you have provided a truly valuable asset to the world and have been duly rewarded for your efforts, just like a successful fine artist would feel.
I like #2, personally.
| 6:39 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
I couldn't agree more with you on this.
However, I'd like to point out that your view (and mine, too) is pretty much based on western culture. I guess people living in other (poorer) regions of the world just can not follow us in this regard. To them, any day that they earn any money using whatever means might be enough to sleep well at night. And if it is really a helluva lot of money, they will even brag about it. The more the merrier.
Intellectually, I can understand that some MFAs, who made a lot of money, are angry now, feeling cheated by Google. But this does not justify their actions and the fact that they have added nothing of their own to make the Internet (or the world as such) a better place. Just reading about their hard work and the risks they've taken makes me feel sick.
| 7:03 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Here we go with a somehow, though not exactly, "racist" comment...
What's next? :
"why all adsense publisher banned have bad English?"
and on and on...
Get the idea?
Let's stop it before it begins.
| 7:25 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
We can see that many of the banned publishers have excellent English, so unless they are Hollywood bad guys with a good education like Blofeld from the James Bond movies, we can see that the "my culture" / "your culture" split is false, just as you suggest!
The West/US/UK/whatever has no monopoly on heroes or villains, or indeed MFAers.
| 7:33 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
I have to admit that arbitragers in this thread have better English than those in the classicals "I'm banned from Adsense" threads.
But that doesn't change what I said.
| 7:37 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
>Let's stop it before it begins.
agree with you and Damon, no one has a monopoly on ethics.
| 7:45 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Let's not get divisive and start a pissing contest, ok? Like anything else, there's always a cross-section with different profiles.
There have been plenty of ostensibly classy folks in Western Cultures flooding the internet with swill for fun and profit, who started out affluent before this new opportunity came along.
Knowing how to rake in the cash isn't always necessarily picked up in a $17.77 downloadable ebook from Clickbank,. Some of what's been cranked out was done by people who already had the expertise and technology to pull it off. Or maybe they sold their wares to others.
They just applied their experience to an exciting new endeavor and were subsidized very nicely for a long time by we_know_who.
[edited by: Marcia at 7:54 am (utc) on May 23, 2007]
| 9:46 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Yes, here in Maryland we do take a different look at the world. Especially at those holyier than thou folks preaching from their 'cute' hobbyist sites :)
ps. Lacie, you have a very nice site.
| 9:48 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|Intellectually, I can understand that some MFAs, who made a lot of money, are angry now, feeling cheated by Google. |
Let them eat cake. Or just sue Google for the emotional distress of being banned.
"Your Honor, I never would have had this distress if Google had been tough in the beginning and enforced its TOS and stopped me from earning so much money by MFAs and let me think I could waste people's time with my sites forever. Those slimy Google people! Grrr."
Sometimes if you're not aggressive with yourself on ethics issues, somebody else will be. It's so easy to rationalize what makes you money as being okay. If your mind is always the final arbiter on ethics, heaven help you.
Anyway, I think some of these MFA folks should be happy they were able to run their scheme in private with nobody knowing who they are, and that they still haven't been outed after the Google Crackdown of 2007.
Do any of these MFAers believe in their practices enough to put their name publicly to their MFA/arbit websites? Every big MFA I ever found abusing Adsense was always hiding behind a whois mask.
Oh, right, that's because they don't want to get spam. But it's okay for them to spam with their MFA sites.
| 10:05 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
While I find the first part of your post funny, leave domain owner masking alone, you don't want to go there as it is not MFA specific, and there are very legitimate reasons for doing that, but that's another forum and another thread.
| 10:53 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|you don't want to go there as it is not MFA specific |
Well, 20% of the domains in my filter list have no contact information whatsoever, no snailmail/office address, no phone number. Sure, most of them have a contact form, but their WHOIS is "private".
In fact, I have noticed that especially MFA sites like to hide behind private registrations.
| 10:55 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Still looking for an example(s) of a banned site. I don't think the ambiguity helps anyone.
No-one wants to be on the wrong side of the line, so it would help to have some idea of where it is.
| 11:04 am on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
If you are referring to my post I think you've got me wrong. I do agree with your:
|2) Do you feel proud of yourself that you have provided a truly valuable asset to the world and have been duly rewarded for your efforts, just like a successful fine artist would fee |
I was simply responding to Marcia's reference to MFA webmaster who disparage other webmasters.
| 12:43 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Does the notice from Google only disable the AdSense accounts of those doing arbitrage/MFA or does it remove the sites fromt he search results?
if the former, it seems we will be left with thousands of "blank" sites; all those urls no longer serving ads but still high in the search results. At least until the owners dump them or replace the ad content with something else.
If the latter that will be a great thing, for most Google users; as arbitrage sites are the bane to those doing searches and actually wanting to find content instead of ad-filled junk pages.
Or am I missing something by not reading all 300+ comments?
| 12:57 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
/enable tinfoil hat
As was mentioned earlier in this thread I am willing to bet this has more to do with the soon to be released site cpc bidding on the content network and cpa program.
I have always firmly believed despite what the MFA/Arbi crowd has stated that they do not convert well for the advertiser and I have a good suspicion that Google does not want less savvy advertiser to know what has been running up the tab for the last 4 years.
Purge arbi then wait 30-90 days, then release site targeted cpc with 30 days of back conversion data for the advertiser which will conviently be absent of most arbi/mfa garbage which would probably have had almost nill conversion ratio but insane ctr % of there budgets.
| 1:21 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|As was mentioned earlier in this thread I am willing to bet this has more to do with the soon to be released site cpc bidding on the content network and cpa program. |
I have a suspicion that this may be correct. Whatever the reason, the removal of the garbitrage crowd is long overdue.
| 2:01 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
It's easy to check URL's I have in my filter to see if the site is still active, still has nothing to offer but advertisements, etc.
Is there an easy way to see if the URL is still advertising in AdWords?
| 2:04 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|Does the notice from Google only disable the AdSense accounts of those doing arbitrage/MFA or does it remove the sites fromt he search results? |
AdSense and Google Search are separate departments, so the shutting down of AdSense accounts doesn't automatically remove the sites from search results.
Still, who's to say that Google won't (either now or in the future) use information about disabled accounts as a "quality factor" in search rankings?
|if the former, it seems we will be left with thousands of "blank" sites; all those urls no longer serving ads but still high in the search results. At least until the owners dump them or replace the ad content with something else. |
I don't think too many arbitrageurs will be replacing their non-content with content of intrinsic value. Most of them probably don't have the skills, and the ones who do aren't looking to do the hard work that it takes to build a legitimate site into a successful business. More likely, they'll look for other ways to leverage the kinds of skills that allowed them to profit from click arbitrage.
| 2:05 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|I have always firmly believed despite what the MFA/Arbi crowd has stated that they do not convert well |
Just a peek over the fence here, towards the Adwords forum: [webmasterworld.com...]
I (and more importantly my clients) need sites that convert. Content network sites haven't historically converted all that well for us in various sectors. And particularly arbitrage sites haven't converted.
All of that [MFA] traffic is 100% worthless if it doesn't convert so things can and probably will go in the other direction...crappy traffic will drop and all those thousands of cheap clicks (which add up to many thousands of dollars) will not be wasted and profitability will improve.
Since we pay for all clicks, those that are junk water down our performance. Minimizing volume is part of maximizing roi.
To me, these statements support the assumption that MFA/Arb traffic does not convert well for advertisers. Which does not come as a surprise, because visitors who just click an ad to escape the site they are viewing are less likely to be pre-qualified for a conversion. I'd call their behaviour "ESCAPE Mode" rather than "Shopping Mode".
| 2:19 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
It would be interesting to see how they adapt, as far as the GUI goes.
bookmark a couple, and watch whats new every couple of days, it is kind of fun to watch though. MFA I mean, MFA. Take a Screen shot, would be cool to see Before/After Shots later on.
| 2:41 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|Just a peek over the fence here |
...and what do we see? An unsuccessful attempt by newsecular to raise FUD. So much for the "good", misunderstood arbitrageur. I have to admit, though, I fell for it.
| 3:06 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
I think the demise of the mfa arbitrage will be a good thing for a number of reasons. (Talking about the no-content mfa/arb, not content rich sites doing adwords etc to drive additional traffic.)
I've been trying to understand what arbitrage really was. I was looking at a site that explained how to do the MFA/arb thing.. What stuck out was the following quote
|Since my premise here is going after targeted PPC traffic, I am not concerned about the issue of duplicated content, since I am not primarily concerned with getting the page indexed. |
In other words he is basically admitting to ripping off content.. He's not concerned about the dupe issue but it seems that a lot of webmasters find themselves in supplemental hell. I wonder how much of that was caused by content rip-offs and the search engines penalizing the wrong site.?
Arbitrage made such as statement possible since he was using PPC to drive traffic to his sites. However, the collateral damage is that he might be squeezing legitimate sites and the original content creators out of the serps.
| 3:06 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Jumping into the speculation pool here, this is another post from the AdWords thread just referenced:
|but am concerned that some of the other content rich sites - that are intrinsically MFA may also be targetted. Speaking for myself - these sites convert well. A person arrives at the site looking for blue widgets. He reads the site content about blue widgets. Then wants a blue widget and sees my add. I have blue widgets for sale - job done. That click has cost me significantly less than a search traffic click, the person who clicks the add is actually getting what he wants. All are happy. |
Somewhere back in this current AdSense thread there was a post by someone who seemed happy at a communication from Google as it offered him hope to stay alive after June 1.
If Google shares the same opinion as the quote above, we might see a lot of MFA's suddenly introducing a small bit of content onto their "ads only" pages in an attempt to stay with AdSense.
If Google encourages that directly or indirectly, the rest of us should expect a lot of our original content to be "borrowed" by the MFA sites.
| 3:16 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Farmboy, if Google is disabling the accounts, it will be up to the ex-MFAs to convince Google that they've cleaned up their acts. That's likely to be harder than just stealing content for use with an existing, non-disabled account.
| 3:36 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
--- content to be "borrowed" --
which makes me remember that EV1 just added another 3 or 4 IP Range blocks to their arsenal with in last 3-4 weeks, and fresh ideas are just purring from there already as we speak.
| 3:46 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
There are a lot of posts here – a lot of angry people. As someone who got banned I do not feel comfortable posting a link to any of my websites. If someone has a real interest in finding out what kind of content got banned then PM me and I will give you a link. If you are someone who cares to flame me I will not help you out – if you are someone who is trying to learn then I don’t mind sharing.
I had original content written by professional freelance writers in the US and the major downfall of my site was that my pages were primarily single page fact sheets and I was using Adwords to drive traffic while I waited to get organic rankings. My articles were on average between 350 - 450 words. I should have taken the time to provide better navigation on my website to other articles but I did not because I got greedy. Ad placement was another thing – I was compliant as per the AdSense team independent review but putting ads in strategic parts of the Heat Map got better click through rates.
Is this a good thing for the Internet and AdSense? – yes I think in the long run it is. I would caution those that feel they have a “Real” Website or “Legitimate” Website that when the rules change and you find yourself on the wrong side of the fence you may sing another tune.
Sometimes the lines are not as clear as you think:
(go to 39:30 into the interview)
Google is trying to clean up the junk on the Internet the only way they can. They are using a big net to stamp out a lot of publishers on the spectrum. I applaud them for it and even though I am banned I think they are doing the right thing. What I take from this entire experience is a lot of knowledge about AdWords and AdSense and a healthy appreciation for those that create sites that build real community. All of the profits that I had made each month went back into creating new original content so at the end of the day it was one big learning experience. The overall plan was to create a site not unlike About.com – getting ranked with good “long tail” articles.
As I said above I am willing to share for those that care to learn what not to do – for those that throw stones – it is bad karma – nobody wants to play with the bully on the playground.
P.S. When you are out you are out – so don’t get kicked out.
| 4:13 pm on May 23, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|If someone has a real interest in finding out what kind of content got banned then PM me and I will give you a link. |
I just sent you a note.
|I had original content written by professional freelance writers in the US and the major downfall of my site was that my pages were primarily single page fact sheets and I was using Adwords to drive traffic while I waited to get organic rankings. My articles were on average between 350 - 450 words. |
Is it possible these hired writers were taking text from other sites and Google got a lot of copyright complaints which led to your account being closed?