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This 55 message thread spans 2 pages: 55 ( [1] 2 > >     
AdSense new CPA Referral product
Hobbs




msg:3287395
 5:06 pm on Mar 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

Google just moved in on Cost per Action for advertisers ala comission junction where you select the product you want displayed on your site.

[google.com...]

I just signed up, but is there any contextual doctor left in the house?

 

jatar_k




msg:3287397
 5:08 pm on Mar 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

related thread in AdWords as well
[webmasterworld.com...]

celgins




msg:3287566
 7:41 pm on Mar 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

A little too much like affiliate ads, in my opinion.

With this much leverage for advertisers, some Adsense publishers will be in trouble if this beta ever turns into run-of-the site CPA ads.

europeforvisitors




msg:3287618
 8:12 pm on Mar 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

With this much leverage for advertisers, some Adsense publishers will be in trouble if this beta ever turns into run-of-the site CPA ads.

According to the beta information, publishers have more leverage than they do with traditional AdSense ads, too: They can pick the ads they want, ignore the ads they don't want, and place the ads where they like (and only where they like).

On the downside, the ads aren't contextual, so (at this point) the program is likely to be of most interest to publishers who, for whatever reason, have been waiting for an alternative to independent affiliate programs and to networks like Commission Junction.

celgins




msg:3287635
 8:22 pm on Mar 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

According to the beta information, publishers have more leverage than they do with traditional AdSense ads, too: They can pick the ads they want, ignore the ads they don't want, and place the ads where they like (and only where they like).

Correct, but unlike traditional Adsense ads, they won't receive revenues for a click. An advertiser-defined action has to take place and Adsensers won't have a clue what that action must be. Since that part of it is out of a publishers' control, many won't opt for CPA since there is no guaranteed click revenue; and with no clicks revenue, you're simply displaying free advertising for the advertiser.

On the downside, the ads aren't contextual, so (at this point) the program is likely to be of most interest to publishers who, for whatever reason, have been waiting for an alternative to independent affiliate programs and to networks like Commission Junction.

The only difference I see in Google's CPA beta test and traditional affiliate ads from networks like Commission Junction is, Adsensers get to actually choose which advertisers they wish to show on their sites. On CJ, Linkshare, etc., publishers can be denied access to a particular advertiser.

ken_b




msg:3287688
 9:08 pm on Mar 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

An advertiser-defined action has to take place and Adsensers won't have a clue what that action must be.

It sounds like publishers will get that info.

What information will publishers see about my pay-per-action ads?
Publishers will be able to view your product name, your product description, your logo, and each of your defined actions along with their associated offers. They will also be able to view your complete pay-per-action ad to determine, whether it will be a good fit for their site and visitors.
(From here [services.google.com])

Erku




msg:3287804
 10:45 pm on Mar 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

I would welcome this kind of program if it was strictly contextual.

What if you cover 120 categories, how do you handpick ads for each? Each category has hunderds of news articles, how do youhandpick thousands of news articles contextually?

but if this was contextual, I would welcome, because it's a chance to earn more if you are a quality content site, and it's an opportunity for the advertisers to not opt out of the content network, but to use it as a fair and safe opportunity.

celgins




msg:3287917
 1:33 am on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

Thanks ken-b. I read that text earlier in the day, but missed the "defined actions along with their associated offers" section.

(Not sure how I missed it, but I did!)

bumpski




msg:3288234
 11:26 am on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

Will Google's Search ranking algorithm penalize these new (in essence) Adsense affiliate links as it penalizes affiliate links now?

One thing that will save the unsuspecting, for now, is Google new Adsense affiliate links are hidden by Javascripts and IFrames.

One day in the near future Google's ranking algorithm will parse javascripts and even IFrames. (Google's definitely partially parsing Javascript now).

So will Google remain consistent and penalize the rankings of pages showing Adsense "Affiliate" ads?

Google has made clear it's disdain for affiliate advertising. Clearly some pages may only have a slight penalty, but in some cases pages with good solid content are driven into oblivion.

I do hope this remains optional and I do have significant concerns about "signing" up in the first place. Advertisers tend to forget that the concept is "Affiliate Marketing" not "Affiliate sales". The advertisers site must "close the deal". The affiliate marketer has done his job once he walks a reasonably qualified customer in the door.

So why not pay for the click and more for the action? Why do these seem to be mutually exclusive? That would actually be the most equitable offering. (I don't know all the details yet, lots to read, little time. I'm an Adwords advertiser too!)

Stirring the pot!

adessa




msg:3288260
 12:01 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

Hobbs post is duplicate? Why post if it being discussed in Adwords discussion? Are you not reading before posting? It is the hottest topic in adwords.

Visit Thailand




msg:3288266
 12:08 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

Hobbs post is duplicate? Why post if it being discussed in Adwords discussion? Are you not reading before posting? It is the hottest topic in adwords.

This is the AdSense forum and as such topics which concern both AW and AS will be handled differently.

AW want ROI. AS wants legitimate revenue for the ad space they are providing the AW crowd.

Two very different sides to the same coin.

europeforvisitors




msg:3288278
 12:25 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

Will Google's Search ranking algorithm penalize these new (in essence) Adsense affiliate links as it penalizes affiliate links now?

Google Search doesn't penalize sites for having affiliate links.

trannack




msg:3288288
 12:33 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

"Hobbs post is duplicate? Why post if it being discussed in Adwords discussion? Are you not reading before posting? It is the hottest topic in adwords."

Andessa - it is a sad, but very true fact that many adsense users never visit the adwords forum, as they deem it of no interest to them. This never ceases to amaze me, as the two are inevitably inerlinked.

Hobbs has done a great many a favour by posting this in here - and instigating a discussion on the potential impact of this on everyones sites, and the possible repercussions it may have.

Back to topic......

I do see this as having a potentially bad effect on another load of businesses. What about the commission junctions, the amazons, the affiliate windows etc, etc. Will this just be another monopoly by Google, where the smaller business models get squeezed out?

europeforvisitors




msg:3288322
 1:08 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

The affiliate marketer has done his job once he walks a reasonably qualified customer in the door. So why not pay for the click and more for the action? Why do these seem to be mutually exclusive? That would actually be the most equitable offering.

That's an interesting idea, but I'd imagine the reason for not doing it is simple: CPA is designed to attract advertisers who don't trust CPC and aren't willing to pay for worthless (and potentially fraudulent) clicks, even with a smart-pricing discount.

celgins




msg:3288337
 1:19 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

Will Google's Search ranking algorithm penalize these new (in essence) Adsense affiliate links as it penalizes affiliate links now?

Google Search doesn't penalize sites for having affiliate links.

I agree, EFV. Not sure where this observation comes from.

Google has made clear it's disdain for affiliate advertising. Clearly some pages may only have a slight penalty, but in some cases pages with good solid content are driven into oblivion.

How? Affiliate banner ads on a page doesn't lower EPC or eCPM.

Will this just be another monopoly by Google, where the smaller business models get squeezed out?

I don't know if it will become a monopoly. I see both advantages and disadvantages for publishers.

Advantage: Unlike traditional affiliate programs (CJ, Linkshare, etc.), publishers will be allowed to choose which advertisers they wish to display. With traditional affiliates, you basically submit an "application" where you're either accepted or not accepted. If Google allows publishers to choose advertisers unrestricted, pinpointing the best advertisers for your niche will be much easier.

Disadvantage: Offering free advertising for Adwords advertisers, which is just like free advertising for traditional affiliate advertisers. When a user on a publisher's website clicks to visit the advertiser, the publisher gets no revenue. Revenues are only generated when an action occurs on the advertisers site. That's a lot of free ad space that may not ever generate an "action" on the other end.

farmboy




msg:3288413
 2:38 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

When a user on a publisher's website clicks to visit the advertiser, the publisher gets no revenue. Revenues are only generated when an action occurs on the advertisers site.

As a publisher, if an ad on my site isn't generating my desired result, I simply stop displaying the ad.

If the advertiser wants to stay on my site, he needs to do whatever is necessary to convert/make sales/generate qualified leads from the traffic I send to him. Otherwise, I'll go find someone who will.

FarmBoy

farmboy




msg:3288428
 2:49 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

If the advertiser only pays when the click generates the desired result what, if any, is the downside in Google allowing publishers to call attention to these ads?

I can already envision publishers building an entire page devoted to reviewing the wonderful products available at Joe's Widget Sales and an ad for Joe's Widget Sales just happens to be the only link off the page.

But again, what's the downside, if Joe only pays when the prospect completes the desired action?

FarmBoy

farmboy




msg:3288478
 3:18 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

If the advertiser only pays when the click generates the desired result what, if any, is the downside in Google allowing publishers to call attention to these ads?

I can already envision publishers building an entire page devoted to reviewing the wonderful products available at Joe's Widget Sales and an ad for Joe's Widget Sales just happens to be the only link off the page.

After thinking about this for a while, I can already think of two "downsides," one for the publisher and one for the advertiser.

For the Publisher: With contextual ads that I don't call attention to on my site, if Joe turns out to be a fraud, I can fairly easily point the blame at Google, as I have little control over which ads they decide to put on my site.

If I call attention to Joe's ad and promote his products with my text and he turns out to be a fraud, my exposure to liability has greatly increased I would think.

For the Advertiser: If publishers are allowed to build text/pages around a particular ad, we're going to see a rash of publishers copying & pasting text from the advertiser's site in an attempt to generate interest in the product. This will lead to copyright disputes - it already happens on some affiliate networks.

FarmBoy

europeforvisitors




msg:3288558
 4:17 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

With this new product, Google may be unleashing a new generation of the "pure play" affiliate sites that cluttered search results a few years ago--not to mention a new wave of affiliate advertisers.

justageek




msg:3288604
 4:56 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

I would welcome this kind of program if it was strictly contextual.

They cannot do it though because they do not own the IP for contextually driven CPA system. The way they are doing it is the safest way they can.

JAG

Undead Hunter




msg:3288643
 5:25 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

So will Google become the Ultimate Commission Junction kind of place, or are we publishers who rely on CPC ads doomed?

Won't CPA ads significantly undercut CPC ads? Won't this lower the eCPM's for many sites?

I'm trying to wrap my head around this as I plan out for the future.

trannack




msg:3288656
 5:33 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

I don't think that CPC will be replaced - in fact there are a number of areas where CPA would perhaps not be right. But it might persuade some advertisers that previously stopped showing on content, back in the arena. It may also give advertisers a new means of advertising - and perhaps achieving their ROI. I don't see this as a negative - but implemented in the right way could prove beneficial on both sides.

The ones are feel sorry for are the already established business that already offer these services - I just see them eventually getting squeezed out - ultimately resulting in Google haveing more and more control of internet activities.

It also bodes the question - if this was to happen - about Googles ability to terminate accounts. For those that have either lost accounts, or have chosen to move away from a business model that can, for all intents and purposes, disable you overnight without actually having to say why, it may reult in yet another revenue stream diminishing for them.

Freddy81




msg:3288666
 5:39 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

Yes, it's really bad news for a lot of publishers. As an advertiser, I'll certainly jump to CPA - why pay per click, when I can pay only for the result? If so, who will continue to pay per click?

europeforvisitors




msg:3288667
 5:40 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

So will Google become the Ultimate Commission Junction kind of place, or are we publishers who rely on CPC ads doomed?

CPA is just a product extension. Unless Google can find a way to make it contextual, it couldn't begin to replace CPC ads (which it couldn't do anyway since many advertisers would be leery of letting Google track their conversions). Google isn't about to abandon a billion dollars in quarterly revenues from its existing Adsense products.

farmboy




msg:3288677
 5:50 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

Won't CPA ads significantly undercut CPC ads? Won't this lower the eCPM's for many sites?

If it does, that's not necessarily a bad thing unless one views it from an entirely selfish point of view.

After all, advertisers are paying the bill. If they can sell their products with a lower advertising budget, that's what they should do.

The publishers who can help advertisers achieve their goal will profit. The others maybe should consider calling one of those 1-800 numbers for a truck driver training school.

FarmBoy

farmboy




msg:3288691
 5:56 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

The ones are feel sorry for are the already established business that already offer these services - I just see them eventually getting squeezed out...

Or maybe the competition will motivate them to improve.

Consider CJ for example. If they're been offering excellent customer service, features, etc. (ahem...) people will be reluctant to leave them for the new kid
on the block. But if they haven't (ahem...), maybe they're about to learn about this thing called consequences.

FarmBoy

farmboy




msg:3288694
 5:57 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

If so, who will continue to pay per click?

If any advertiser is very good at converting, he might should consider staying with CPC.

FarmBoy

celgins




msg:3288718
 6:11 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

CPA is just a product extension. Unless Google can find a way to make it contextual, it couldn't begin to replace CPC ads (which it couldn't do anyway since many advertisers would be leery of letting Google track their conversions). Google isn't about to abandon a billion dollars in quarterly revenues from its existing Adsense products.

Yep, and once advertisers flock to the CPA model and realize no publishers have opted-in, they'll slowly start to migrate back to CPC or search.

That is, of course, Google somehow mandates that certain publishers sign up for CPA and nothing else. But I doubt that will happen.

farmboy




msg:3288738
 6:30 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

Yep, and once advertisers flock to the CPA model and realize no publishers have opted-in...

My guess is that train has already left the station. I signed up and I suspect I'm not alone.

FarmBoy

rocker




msg:3288748
 6:44 pm on Mar 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

If a CPA click does not convert does Google generate any revenue? I can't imagine Google plastering the web with ads, that are being clicked on, and not receiving any revenue from the clicks.

This 55 message thread spans 2 pages: 55 ( [1] 2 > >
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