| 3:56 am on Feb 14, 2007 (gmt 0)|
"No, it does not. "
Tough , Isn't it. ;-)
Needs an application of brains and a niche. Ask Pengi.
| 7:07 am on Feb 14, 2007 (gmt 0)|
It works, but you need to be an adwords expert. If you are just starting out on adwords, chances are that you are going to spend a lot of money doing trials and errors and lose money instead of making, until you give up.
| 7:15 am on Feb 14, 2007 (gmt 0)|
I wouldn't say those books or the arbitrage concept itself are scams, exactly, but anyone getting into it now is very late to the game and will have a lot of trouble making any money whatsoever.
It's also a waste of a learning curve. If you spend hundreds of hours building a conventional site and it tanks, at least you can translate the skills you developed to another project, and build on your experience. Spending that much time mastering a business which is gradually becoming obsolete just seems futile.
| 6:55 pm on Feb 14, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Yes it can work and make you some money.
No it certainly isn't easy money. It pays me less than minimum wage for the time I put in producing content and setting up Ad campaigns. This doesn't include payment for keeping track of the stats on a regular basis or maintaining bid levels.
As a get rich quick scheme - forget it.
| 8:51 pm on Feb 14, 2007 (gmt 0)|
I'm not doing arb, but I have nothing against it in principle if it adds value to the user (ie helps them find something that they might otherwise not) and thus the advertiser too.
My most efficient campaigns come close(ish) to paying for themselves, but even when I've tried as an experiment to make real net revenue I've failed. I have a real site, real organic traffic, real content, deep-ish pockets, a little brains, and some time to spare, and multiple paid traffic sources and ad networks, and still didn't manage it.
So, forget "get rich quick" unless you are very smart and lucky and have deep pockets, etc. And it may not be "rich" or "quick".
| 8:19 pm on Feb 15, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Every day another 100 people buy an ebook on arbitrage so every day another 100 webmasters are fighting for the same keywords and pushing each other's profit margins to breaking point.
If you're just starting I wouldn't bother, if you're in it already, start looking elsewhere.
| 8:51 pm on Feb 15, 2007 (gmt 0)|
When the Quality Score column is added in the next few days it may make it easier. I'm thinking it'll be an easy way to know when you'll be paying more than you should for a click before you do so that may help some in the decision making on what keywords to run or not. But as the others have said...it's a hard game to play and actually win.
| 9:37 pm on Feb 15, 2007 (gmt 0)|
I think it's more likely that further revisions to the Quality Score algorithm will again increase minimum bids for sites that are not providing genuine valuable content.
Prepare for the sounds of pain coming from the AdWords forum!
| 7:35 am on Feb 16, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Worked for me, i spent 100$ to make 350$+
| 8:00 am on Feb 16, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Of course it works!
For the people selling the eBooks about it, at least!
| 1:12 pm on Feb 16, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Up until Jul 11 2006 it was a piece of cake. After that date it has become progressively more difficult for most folks (like me).
| 11:30 pm on Feb 16, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Is it possible those who believe it works or it has worked for them, give some more tips and show some proofs? Thanks!
| 4:14 am on Feb 17, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Would you like their PIN too?
| 4:45 am on Feb 17, 2007 (gmt 0)|
the Arb game:
this game is very unique and has it's own set of rules. One rule is that if you think you got it licked, someone will immediately figure that out and do the same thing LOL I just had to say that ( back in the 80's I ran a desk where I was arbing gold from Chicago - NY then ran it to other markets )
the arb game only last until the market discovers your system and or ( in this case ) keywords. what I have come across in learning about this "game" is that spending 3 to 4 hours per week working on improving your site's ranking will help the cash stream with the organic traffic.
The Arb Game, from my experience ( not the AdSense - AdWords ) overnight you could find some people with deeper pockets whacking you out of the game. Let me find some similar related issues that happened to me and maybe it might help you in the end.
ever see your favorite keyword overnight cost you a lot more than before: it's 1 of 2 things, new player ( easy to discover ) or an established player getting ready to kick you out of that word
ever see your cost go up on a few keywords ( related ) just a few pennies ( just enough to drive you from the top 3 ). That's a new arb confirming the market is viable, get ready, he's about to spend some money.
one of the tricks that I was able to use in the pit was to move around, how this correlates is to develop multiple web sites ( all your favorite topics ) and keep on growing them using the 40-30-20-10 improving rule ( 40% to the top earner, 30% to the next one, 20% to the next one 10% to the R&D), this way you don't have to get whacked out of all the markets at the same time.
| 8:05 am on Feb 17, 2007 (gmt 0)|
what is Adsense Arbitrage? can someone explain to me please?
| 8:14 am on Feb 17, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|what is Adsense Arbitrage? |
When you buy traffic at a low price and they click out at a higher price. But not everyone clicks an ad. So you have to calculate cost per click, the real cost per click including the cost of visitors who don't click.
If you have a five percent ctr that means 95 of a hundred visitors that you paid for don't click. So the five that DO click must click on ads that are worth more than the cost of paying for 95 visitors that did not click.
| 9:25 am on Feb 17, 2007 (gmt 0)|
How to make click arbitrage work
1. Find a new niche topic that has good advertising revenue and isn't overcrowded with existing publishers.
2. Produce quality pages on all aspects of the topic - tell people what the topic is about and all the pros and cons - imagine yourself as the sales person selling the products and services.
3. Set up Advertising campaigns for all the relevant keywords.
4. Monitor the returns regularly and adjust bids to ensure a profit (or turn off the campaign if it isn't profitable)
5. Hope that you are not hit by smartpricing
6. Hope that you are not hit by the Quality Score algorithm
7. Repeat 1 to 3 about 4 times a day for several months
8. Repeat 4 to 6 continuously.
9. Look for some other way to earn a living.
PS Step 1 gets harder all the time.
| 4:13 pm on Feb 17, 2007 (gmt 0)|
In an efficient market, arbitrage opportunities disappear: it's a fundamental of pricing in the financial markets.
So, to find arb that works you have to find a (possibly new) sector where the advertisers and the users/buyers (for example) are fairly bad at finding one another without help.
However, as the advertisers (or users or SERPS) get smarter the arb will disappear out from under your feet.
| 4:26 pm on Feb 17, 2007 (gmt 0)|
"In an efficient market, arbitrage opportunities disappear"
This fact is true with all arbitrage business in any sector not just adwords/adSense. However it is also true that Google is not allowing efficient markets to evolve. With the introduction of QS, Google has created further imperfections creating more opportunities for arbitraging.
Many webmasters feel that QS is knocking off arbitraging, however IMHO , the opportunties for arbitaging have INCREASED. A smart operator can create a page with a decent enough QS and mint money of advertisers who are paying higher on a/c of QS hit. I see multiple opportunities in various niches. This QS thing seems to update every 2/3 months and is not a regular process. Many smart guys can and do use this window to make a lot of money.
Changing a domain and hosting is cheap. This is what is actually happening.
| 6:24 pm on Feb 17, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Yes, you have a good point.
Google is trying the regulate the market, and that creates 'regulatory arbitrage', which I have profited from in the past!
I wonder if G is fully aware of these secondary arb opportunities that it is creating?
| 10:25 am on Feb 19, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Excuse the late question, but can someone please point out what value does arb add to the program, original advertiser, original publisher and the surfer?
| 10:27 am on Feb 19, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Arbitrage works. At least till I got my account disabled.
| 10:51 am on Feb 19, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Excuse the late question, but can someone please point out what value does arb add to the program, original advertiser, original publisher and the surfer? "
Done right..It adds value by preselling a concept / idea and providing better conversions for the advertiser.
For the publisher , the obvious gain is more income.
For the surfer it helps in providing direction.
DONE BADLY it is the famous MFA , who can and do get banned...
The dividing line is very thin....It can and does get blurred.. often..
| 11:14 am on Feb 19, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|In an efficient market, arbitrage opportunities disappear |
And I think a lot of other opportunities would dissapear also, not just adsense. A lot of people would be crying.
[edited by: simey at 11:15 am (utc) on Feb. 19, 2007]
| 11:14 am on Feb 19, 2007 (gmt 0)|
>better conversions for the advertiser
An arb takes my visitor at a cheaper rate to the arb specific page, then send them to the advertiser better converted?
>For the publisher , the obvious gain is more income
How is that better than the original advertiser paying the original publisher without an arb paying less and charging more in the middle layer?
>For the surfer it helps in providing direction
Again, adding a layer is better for the surfer?
Excuse my inability to comprehend, please do explain more.
Maybe this thread would be better received in the Adwords not the AdSense forum :-)
[edited by: Hobbs at 11:17 am (utc) on Feb. 19, 2007]
| 12:26 pm on Feb 19, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Adsense arbitrage gives the advertiser another opportunity advertise. I've got a buddy who's doesn't do arbritrage - but who's stuff shows up on all the sites and he gets clients telling him he must be really something - they see his stuff everywhere. I guess it's like branding.
| 1:11 pm on Feb 19, 2007 (gmt 0)|
If you can buy clicks and break even, it works. That is, if your site has something else to offer that could get them to come back again. Any method of marketing that allows you an instant break even is fantastic. Smart marketers are doing arbitrage in a way to maximize traffic rather than profit.
| 1:13 pm on Feb 19, 2007 (gmt 0)|
To be more specific, you can't compare search engine arbitrage to stock arbitrage. If you buy a company in London and sell it in New York to profit on the discrepencies in prices, your only gain is the cash gain. These are websites. You gain a unique! Therefore, if you can break even, why wouldn't you be buying 1 million keywords?
| 2:19 pm on Feb 19, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Arbitrage must succeed rather nicely with the traffic generated from parked domain names, because I'm seeing more players and bigger players jostling for position on the landers associated with my domain names. Hint: I have no doubt, based upon a year's observations and who is doing what, that it's working like a charm.
I suspect that the move is a function of a) the highly focused nature of direct navigation traffic; b) the filtering, smart-pricing and anti-clickfraud measures undertaken by the larger, first-tier parking players (Google, as overseeing feed provider to parked domains and the first tier parking companies, as self-interested defender of their business model); c) the low cost of traffic generation associated with an inefficient market, a marketing space about which many people aren't aware of how well it can work or who have acted based upon rumor rather than direct testing with first tier providers; and, d) the industry reports that upwards of 15% of the major search engines PPC traffic is derived from direct navigation parking systems, i.e., that's a lot of very focused traffic, particulary traffic focused on 'real deal' domains (non-trademark typos and like ilk).
I'm not sure I should publicly acknowledge this situation - the growing evidence of arbitragers targeting parked domains - because I'd rather see more direct first tier advertisers appearing on the landers - but if I'm going to be a victim (I park domains) of those seeking maximum advantage from lowest cost traffic sources then letting the cat out of the bag is in my own interest.
Free markets and efficient pricing are only efficient when and where there's equal access to information. To whatever degree more people wake up to what others are doing to gain an advantage by exploiting inefficient pricing of direct navigation traffic then all the better for the free market - and me.
[edited by: Webwork at 2:28 pm (utc) on Feb. 19, 2007]
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