i wouldn't even reply ...
if someone wants to buy then they've gotta know how much they want to pay (even if they don't offer it)!
sounds to me like they are fishing to see the kind of money you make for other reasons.
>>If you do want to sell
if this is the case look for a buyer elsewhere,
>>I'm interested to hearing how the experienced webmaster has handled this.
i'll admit that i'm not that experienced in selling websites, but i have been in the buying/selling game all my life and the product doesn't much matter the process is always similiar.
I recently got one of those "offers" or "expressions of interest" that started off offering 3Xs my annual earnings. I have no idea if they had a reasonable guess as to how much that might actually be, and I don't care.
Like the others I get, I ignored it. I don't reply to these things.
(for God's sake, don't sell before November 18th!)
There are a lot of people who do indeed buy and/or sell websites. I commonly see people buying/selling for five digits, and it's not that uncommon to see it in the six digits range. If someone paid me three times what I could make in a year, I'd sell my site right now. Use that money to pay off our land, build a house, and start a new site from scratch.
BTW, if you want to buy my site, the 3X annual rate would creep into the six digits range. If you have deep pockets, I'll definitely help you lose some of that weight in your wallet!
Edit: Apparently three Xs in a row is censored, had to edit the money figures.
|for God's sake, don't sell before November 18th!) |
Yes, just curious, why we don't sell our site until November 18.
|and start a new site from scratch. |
True, but it takes quite a while for a web site to get some Google love...
Yeah, I'm nosy, why not before November 18th? ;)
Never heard of November 18th being special. Personally, I wouldn't want to sell mine until right after Christmas, I think advertisers pay more for ads then, or there's more advertisers, or something. While I do see an increase in traffic, there's an even higher increase in earnings (i.e., traffic may go up 10% but earnings go up 20%, just some random numbers I threw together).
If the sale is big enough, get with a tax adviser, and see if it'd be better for you to sell this year, or next year. If this year, I would sell at the very end of December. If next year, then January 1st would be perfect. Be sure to explain your entire situation. For example, you're not employed elsewhere and your site is your entire earnings. You plan on taking a big break next year, for many months or even take the entire year off (i.e., you have no more sites, and don't plan on finding a job). I bet it'd be better to sell it next year. If you sell it this year, then the money from the sale AND the money you earned from ads is reported to the IRS in a single year, bumps you into a higher tax bracket, and you get a lot taken out. If you sell next year, then for this year the IRS only sees what your ads made, keeping you in a lower tax bracket. For next year, the IRS only sees the sale of the site, which may be a lot of money, but still less than the sale + earnings from ads, and may keep you in a lower tax bracket.
Sorry for rambling, but if you're seriously considering selling your site now, it may be something worth looking into.
I buy sites. 10-12x monthly is pretty standard.
It's risky to have to work a site for 10-12 months before even seeing a profit, with all the seo variables as they are.
3x yearly is insane unless youtube kind of site
The significance of November 18th is only specific to Hubie's site.
If you enjoy working on it and it doesn't cut in to your life too much and it the revenue seems to be growing, then why sell, unless you are offered an insanely large sum of money?
(and as I mentioned before, I would NEVER give any kind of a sum first - if they're really interested, they already know how much they are willing to pay, even if it's only a ballpark)
Lets say for example, someone wanted to buy all of my sites. I would try to sell them for about 1-years worth of gross earnings.
Then, I would start up some new sites, and do the same in a year or two.
This could be a great way to make some fast money, but who would the buyers be?
A good strategy might be to buy websites which are older, have fairly good evergreen content, and appear to be not have been updated for some time. If a site like that still has good traffic/serps, and the owner doesnt care about it anymore, it might be a good thing.
I would never divulge earnings to someone that approached me regarding one of my sites.
On the one occasion that this has happened I did reply with an "as is" sale price. Any serious buyer already knows what the site (or domain) is worth to them.
If you are actively trying to sell a site that is entirely a different matter. You pretty much have to justify it's worth, and the only way to do that is by disclosing revenue.
I think 10-12x is pretty standard, but again it depends on a lot of factors.
A site making $10 a month can not be bought or sold for $100, it's not fair price at all.
A site making $100 a month can however be sold $1000-1200
and similarly a site making $1000 a month can be sold for close to $10k
I hope you all agree to me, and know why.
There's loads of factors related to the value of a site. They include the domain name (length, single word, short phrase, etc), how long the site has been operation, how many registered users it has, its position in search engines, its monthly turnover, the quality of the production, any 'brand' value (ie, is it well known), etc. At the end of the day, a site is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I wouldn't sell mine for less than 10 times it's yearly profit. But then I really like my site.
I've been buying and selling sites for years. Yes, many of the sites you see being sold in some of the webmaster forums are proxy, myspace bling, turnkey... and for some of them 12x is too much.
|If you do want to sell...what do you sell for? |
As stated before a site is worth only what someone will pay for it. So, start high, if it doesn't sell keep lowering the price. :)
I'm always on the lookout for quality sites and have paid upto six figure sums and 30x multiples for the right properties.
[edited by: oddsod at 11:02 am (utc) on Nov. 10, 2006]
What fuzzyfish said. I have an 8 year old authority site, making 5 digit income a month, with close to 100,000 registered users with 100 a day coming more.
It's just not the income that counts. I saw somewhere that registered users are valued 4$-10$ each (depends on type of site of course). On established sites like mine even projected income is a factor. There isn't a formulae that you can use to determine a site's value, there are too many factors to consider.
I've had many interesting offers and buyers, but still not selling. I'd sell for maybe 5 or 6 years income right now. Also could buy a house and start working on a new site. I have plenty of ideas but no time. :/
Sounds like a fishing trip to me - throw out a line and see who bites. Unless someone approached me with an opening offer, I wouldn't take them seriously.
|The significance of November 18th |
I thought maybe you were suggesting Hubie hold out till this date to sell for enough to buy a new Mini which is launched on the 18th ;)
I've tried to buy some sites with this approach: I don't want to know the price but how much times the last month income will be the price.
No one responded.
Maybe they're waiting the yuotube-like offer... and I'm too waiting to have the G pockets. Maybe in our next life.
[edited by: Lexur at 12:34 pm (utc) on Nov. 10, 2006]
|how much times the last month income will be the price. |
If you asked exactly so, I wouldn't reply too because I didn't understand what that means. :) Even if I extrapolate a meaning from this sentence, that can't be the value of a site or a method of calculation.
[edited by: Alioc at 1:04 pm (utc) on Nov. 10, 2006]
Never respond to a question of "how much do you make". The quote still holds true, "He who talks first, loses."
|10-12x monthly is pretty standard. |
what standard? i'd never sell my site for this ridiculous amount.
moreover, there are some questions that need to be answered:
- how does the site monetize currently: adsense? affiliates? both? none?
- content structure: maintenance? cms or customized? evergreen content?
- what about the user base: visitors? subscribers? paying customers?
- quality of traffic, amount of fresh/repeat visitors, market share, growth rate?
- options and potentials how to further market the site: in the next months? in the next years?
and on and on it goes...
i also have reflected on what to tell a potential buyer. i came to the conclusion that it's perhaps more reasonable to link the price to the number of current unique visitors per month. what do you think of that?
|i'd never sell my site for this ridiculous amount. |
The operative word there is "my". The multiple itself is not ridiculous; in fact it's too much for some of the sites I see advertised.
|it's perhaps more reasonable to link the price to the number of current unique visitors per month |
Why? It's difficult to choose a single factor as sites may differ in what their main selling point is - from domain .... to opt-in subscribers - but if you had to choose one single factor it's not uniques, it's income.
The #1 reason people buy sites is to run them as businesses. Businesses have to make a profit. The price paid for a business is justified by what the buyer reasonably expects to make from it in the near future. Traffic is worthless, useless, a waste of time, bandwidth and money .... unless you can convert it to something you want.
Like converting it to money. Income. As stated previously. And if you don't have those earnings it's likely you have that worst kind of traffic - the type that eats up your resources but isn't capable of giving you much in return. Why should I invest money in a such site?
|I thought maybe you were suggesting Hubie hold out till this date to sell for enough to buy a new Mini which is launched on the 18th ;) |
|I'm interested to hearing how the experienced webmaster has handled this. |
Delete the email and report is as spam ;)
>>>I buy sites. 10-12x monthly is pretty standard.<<<
sell a site for what it earns in a year or less? that's way too low for quality content with natural traffic, because it's too difficult to replace... it could easily take you more than a year to build up a replacement site.
i can see selling a site like that if it's profitable from paid traffic and links, because that can be duplicated easily.
When I do A valuation for a purchase I do some simple stuff to get a guild line rate.
a) what's the monthly income from advertising ( web page )
b) what's the subscription value of the members
c) what's the income of the e-mail list
A = I look to price this at a 8% to 15% yield ( cash flow yield over 1 year )
b = do the members buy anything, are they repeat clients, do they purchase what refer on the site, what would it take to duplicate the trust of this list.
c = is the e-mail making any money? if so then I assign a value
just these basics will give you a simple idea of the possible value.
As far as evaluating a site goes, I wouldn't SELL for less than 3x annual, otherwise it's a why bother as I can keep it and the cash flow continues. My biggest fear is what if I can't reproduce that cash flow and that 3x sale cash has run out in year 4, yuk.
Speaking of buying sites...
I got an even wilder request this week, someone I know that runs a site that compliments mine and fits like a glove was interested in retiring, didn't want to sell out, just wanted me to take it over and split the loot.
Took about half a day to evaluate the situation before I jumped all over it.
The thing is this, the other site doesn't have AdSense on it, probably never will and doesn't need it! Probably the main reason I was so hopped up on the idea as it will even further diversify my income.
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