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Google AdSense Forum

    
Optimising existing pages or adding more
Dilemna of running a site with Adsense
level80

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 11:58 pm on Oct 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've been trying both strategies basically (although mainly optimisation of pages to produce better targetted ads on the basis that more relevant ads will increase clicks). However the downside to optimising pages is this. Eventually you reach a maximum as to what is possible. Anything else you do can effect things (eg increase CTR) but at the cost of something else (usually lowering CPC) which means you end up with a lower eCPM than when you started and might as well have just left them the way it was.

Example (first line is last 7 days second line is previous 7 days)

Page impressions Clicks Page CTR Page eCPM Earnings
x x x x x
0.94x 0.86x 0.92x 1.03x 0.97x

As you can see I've increased pageviews by 6%, however earnings have only gone up by 3% (despite a higher CTR) because of lower eCPM.

So basically I think that it's only worth my time adding new pages or making minor modifications to existing pages for SEO purposes as a means to increase Adsense revenue.

 

Genuine1

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 1:15 am on Oct 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

How much trsffc? The best way to optimise has nothing to do with ad oolours etc Its traffic. Not more but better targeted! More = less targeted? Usually.

Better click through due to colours/layout etc = smartpricing to allow for the fact that half your traffic clicked an add by mistake due to layout/blending.

Whats important is that your traffic really is correct/pre qualified!
Page and site keywords. and titles/metatags/alt image tags/ text etc needs to be narrowly and accurately targetted!

[edited by: Genuine1 at 1:18 am (utc) on Oct. 28, 2006]

Lovejoy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 1:20 am on Oct 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

If you optimize your pages you get pre qualified traffic. Just throwing pages up without specific content matching your keywords gets you traffic and likely smart priced ;~)

Lovejoy- Out

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 1:29 am on Oct 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Are you talking AdSense optimization of shuffling around ad placement, position in colors or SEO optimization of just tweaking the text to get the best keywords?

AdSense optimization has limited options, shouldn't take more than a few days of playing with any site to figure out where you get the best bang for the buck with ad placement and colors.

SEO optimization though is an endless game that has ever improving returns to your website as you observe new search patterns bringing visitors.

A good mix of channels and SEO can do wonders for a site.

level80

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 5:06 am on Oct 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

In answer to Genuine1 ~ 5,000 visitors a day. As most of the traffic is from search engines it's pretty much out of my control. The odd thing is though that the more narrowly I target my page (so the ads are more relevant) the lower my eCPM and CPC go. I'll give an example - there was a page on my site about the computer game Zeus: Master of Olympus that was showing ads for farm equipment and dairies because the page happened to have two cheats on the subject of dairy/cows/cheese. Despite optimising it to remove the ads (and renaming the page with the keywords), the new ads despite being more relevant and getting a higher CTR, have a lower CPC and therefore lower my eCPM.

I already use the search queries from Adsense for Search for suggestions for new pages to add (although this then results in fewer Adsense for search queries).

In answer to incredibill - I've done as much Adsense optimisation as is possible. I have ~ 1,600 pages on the site (some made with the old template). What I'm doing is copying over the info on them to the new template and sometimes renaming the filename too (with a 301 redirect from the old page as well as renaming the internal links to that page).

Regarding channels - it might be an idea to create new channels with the pages that the name has changed on. However you can only SEO on-page so much before you end up reaching the top 5 or so for common queries and you really should start concentrating on inbound links or creating new pages.

Genuine1

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 9:04 am on Oct 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>In answer to Genuine1 ~ 5,000 visitors a day.

I get only 2.5 amd 4.5k page views.

>>>As most of the traffic is from search engines it's pretty much out of my control.

No its not. The more targeted the text, links, url, file name, metatags, titles, alt image text, image file names etc the better and the more accurate the search result will be. You may get less overall traffic and lose out on the longtail stuff but that traffic is going to see exactly the ads your optimised page will get. Click through is improved, smartpricing loves you etc...

>>>The odd thing is though that the more narrowly I target my page (so the ads are more relevant) the lower my eCPM and CPC go. I'll give an example - there was a page on my site about the computer game Zeus: Master of Olympus that was showing ads for farm equipment and dairies because the page happened to have two cheats on the subject of dairy/cows/cheese. Despite optimising it to remove the ads (and renaming the page with the keywords), the new ads despite being more relevant and getting a higher CTR, have a lower CPC and therefore lower my eCPM.

Well thats not exactly what I meant but even so its contrary to what I see on my own pages.

>>>In answer to incredibill - I've done as much Adsense optimisation as is possible. I have ~ 1,600 pages on the site (some made with the old template).

How is it possible to have 1600 pages of genuinely useful content? You would need an awful lot of knowledge and time! Here is your problem? I only have a hundred or so and it earns 3k plus per month for 3 years. Filler isnt content. Maybe you do have 1.6k pages of genuinely interesting content but its not text or its a forum?

>>> What I'm doing is copying over the info on them to the new template and sometimes renaming the filename too (with a 301 redirect from the old page as well as renaming the internal links to that page).

Templates and site design dont really matter. Mine is crap! basic, amateurish will errors, bad links and STATIC HTML. And its unlikely that any of it validates, or even works in other browsers apart from internut exploder. And I dont use real hosting, but the free space isp give you. No domain names even. All that matters is quality content. Nothing else!

>>>Regarding channels - it might be an idea to create new channels with the pages that the name has changed on. However you can only SEO on-page so much before you end up reaching the top 5 or so for common queries and you really should start concentrating on inbound links or creating new pages.

Good content creates its own inbound links that are more real and natural than you can aquire otherwise. I use no channels at all. I have not created a new page since adsense was added.

level80

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 9:41 am on Oct 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>As most of the traffic is from search engines it's pretty much out of my control.

No its not. The more targeted the text, links, url, file name, metatags, titles, alt image text, image file names etc the better and the more accurate the search result will be. You may get less overall traffic and lose out on the longtail stuff but that traffic is going to see exactly the ads your optimised page will get. Click through is improved, smartpricing loves you etc...

Actually optimisation has the opposite effect - greater search engine traffic. Otherwise it would be deoptimisation. So far today, CTR is 3% above monthly average and eCPM 71% of monthly average. So yes it increases CTR - but by increasing the relevance of the ads on the page lower cost ads are being shown (which are then clicked on). This leads to a lower eCPM. Either that or I'm making changes to the site faster than the Adsense bot can figure them out.

How is it possible to have 1600 pages of genuinely useful content?
Some of it is forum pages I admit (which do get quite a lot of search engine traffic) - maybe it's these pages that are not helping. I should create a channel for the forum to see if it's performance is affecting things. The rest are pages added over time - text about computer games - cheats, passwords, hints, tips - it's all useful to someone.

You would need an awful lot of knowledge and time!

Yes, although I'll admit some are "filler" pages. However a site in the video games category will get the $0.02/$0.03 ads. I'm sure if it was a topic with higher paying ads (say finance, travel etc) I'd be making more money too.

Templates and site design dont really matter.
They do if you want to slow the user down going through the site so they have a better chance of clicking on an ad. Broken links are unavoidable. I try and make sure the code validates.

And I dont use real hosting, but the free space isp give you.

Yeah well, I wouldn't do that because it would tie me down to a particular ISP.

No domain names even. All that matters is quality content. Nothing else!

Maybe if I do a second site (learning the lessons from the first). However personally I think it's useful content that matters. You can have really high quality content but if nobody wants to read it - like a lot of high quality books it'll just gather dust on a shelf.

Good content creates its own inbound links that are more real and natural than you can aquire otherwise. I use no channels at all. I have not created a new page since adsense was added.

Well yes, I agree. Hence according to Google 1,690 links to the site. I also wrote a snippet of javascript code that provides the code for people to copy and paste to link to each page. There's also an email a friend bit which has about 4 people emailing their friends with pages on the site. Not creating any new pages though would make the repeat visitors think I don't care.

Genuine1

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 11:23 am on Oct 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>>Actually optimisation has the opposite effect - greater search engine traffic. Otherwise it would be deoptimisation.

You misunderstood
If you have a page about widgets most people optimise it for all widgets. This way you get search referals for green, blue, pink, pointed, heavy, squashed etc widgets. You get MORE traffic.
I do the opposite. I optimise only for pointed widgets. No variation. I get less traffic overall. But the traffic I do get is highly targeted for that term. Hence the ads on the page also will be. Result = better click through and better conversion = more cash and happy smartpricing!

>>>Yes, although I'll admit some are "filler" pages.

Well google search will tar your whole site with the same quality score. You are not gaining traffic by doing that. You are losing places for your good pages.

>>>Maybe if I do a second site (learning the lessons from the first). However personally I think it's useful content that matters. You can have really high quality content but if nobody wants to read it - like a lot of high quality books it'll just gather dust on a shelf.

Good content, useful content, content that naturally makes you forward a link to your friends, content that makes you bookmark the site, stuff available nowhere else. Someone bought that dusty book though! Yes REAL content.

level80

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 11:38 am on Oct 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

You misunderstood
If you have a page about widgets most people optimise it for all widgets. This way you get search referals for green, blue, pink, pointed, heavy, squashed etc widgets. You get MORE traffic.
I do the opposite. I optimise only for pointed widgets. No variation. I get less traffic overall. But the traffic I do get is highly targeted for that term. Hence the ads on the page also will be. Result = better click through and better conversion = more cash and happy smartpricing!

This is exactly what I am doing, it's leading to increased, less targetted traffic though (I think partly because optimising individual pages for specific terms means the site is ranking higher now for popular, yet less relevant terms). Traffic goes up, CTR goes up but because the ads are now targetted to very specific keywords/phrases the bid price they need to win is lower. In the long term I want traffic to increase yes, but not ad revenue to go down.

Well google search will tar your whole site with the same quality score. You are not gaining traffic by doing that. You are losing places for your good pages.

Nope, individual pages get their own Pagerank in Google. The good pages have only gained places. Although some pages may temporarily disappear (because I've renamed them), once Google spiders the 301ed page it ranks that page even higher thanks to the optimisation.

Good content, useful content, content that naturally makes you forward a link to your friends, content that makes you bookmark the site, stuff available nowhere else. Someone bought that dusty book though! Yes REAL content.

Good and useful are entirely subjective. What's useful today might not be tomorrow. Personally I don't forward links to friends and don't bookmark sites (that's what a brain is for). As to stuff that's available nowhere else - well even if I write the stuff myself (and yes I have done that) it's not what I'm best at. Hmm, new site - hundred pages of real unique content on a topic I know plenty about that can easily be monetised with Adsense. Should be easy enough to do. In fact I can think of two and it would avoid getting duplicate content penalties.

Genuine1

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 11:59 am on Oct 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Exactly! Write a lot in detail about something only you can do/understand/know about! It pays. You dont need many pages but good pages.

linuxguy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 11:45 pm on Oct 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Optimizing should be an easy process if you are using a CMS, so you can use most of your time to add more content.

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 1:54 am on Oct 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

>> I've done as much Adsense optimisation as is possible.

If that's all you can do, then you really do have a problem. I can see the cheats and not even see half your adsense ads - why bother having them way down on the screen when the rest of that screen is blank?

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 1:57 am on Oct 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>How is it possible to have 1600 pages of genuinely useful content? You would need an awful lot of knowledge and time! Here is your problem? I only have a hundred or so and it earns 3k plus per month for 3 years. Filler isnt content. Maybe you do have 1.6k pages of genuinely interesting content but its not text or its a forum?

Maybe it's me, but I've got 1,100 pages of real content (700 - 1,500 words per page) that only took me two years to write...

level80

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 2:29 am on Oct 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

If that's all you can do, then you really do have a problem. I can see the cheats and not even see half your adsense ads - why bother having them way down on the screen when the rest of that screen is blank?

OK, perhaps I'd better explain better in detail. The 160x600 2nd and 3rd adblocks on the right don't perform very well - but they do get some clicks. The reason for the third 160x600 ad is that some pages are a lot longer.

If you look at the forum for example, you'll find that the three 160x600 ad blocks stacked vertically below the left navigation bar don't even come to the end of the page.

However in answer to your question I've thought of getting rid of the second 160x600 ad block and replacing it with a 728x90 leaderboard at the top. I've also thought of moving the 160x600 ad that would be left up the page to where the ebay ads are currently. My point is that I optimised things to the point whereby making further changes recently (whatever I did) just decreased Adsense revenue rather than improving it.

Maybe it's me, but I've got 1,100 pages of real content (700 - 1,500 words per page) that only took me two years to write...

Yeah well, Google seems to like short pages with not much content on for some peculiar reason. Don't ask me why. Some of the pages have 700-1500 words per a page - for example the GTA Vice City PS2 page has 811 words. If I was aiming for 700-1500 words per a page I'd be writing reviews of the games, not just codes for them.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 3:20 am on Oct 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

for example the GTA Vice City PS2 page has 811 words.

Hey, aren't you afraid that, just for fun, some jerk is going to read this thread, check your profile, and run a bot on your site until you're booted from AdSense?

It's not unprecedented and people do much worse to each other offline.

It's your business and income and you're free to do whatever you want. But just wanted to make sure you were aware of possible consequences.

level80

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 3:51 am on Oct 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I wasn't until you pointed it out. I'm sure Google have systems in place to discount such activity anyway. Personally I think they wouldn't succeed. What would be the point of them doing that anyway other than just sheer maliciousness? People round here are here to help each other, not get each other booted out of Adsense just for kicks.

It's not unprecedented and people do much worse to each other offline.

Well perhaps so far I've escaped the worst of human behaviour online then as I've been using Adsense on the site for over three years.

It's your business and income and you're free to do whatever you want. But just wanted to make sure you were aware of possible consequences.

Thanks, although my earnings from non-Adsense advertising on the site and non-earned income exceed any I get currently from Adsense anyway. I do have a backup plan in case of problems and other stuff I do. As a precaution though I've removed it from the profile.

ronburk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 6:25 am on Oct 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

What would be the point of them doing that anyway other than just sheer maliciousness?

True. That's why the system hasn't completely fallen apart.

OTOH, in some surely small but non-zero number of cases, a real aggressive (or just plain malicious) AdSense publisher might decide a few less competitors would increase his share of the pie.

What we do know for sure (from court-mandated documents) is that the # of 100% automated no-human-looked-at-your-case terminations of AdSense publishers is "growing".

We can also reasonably infer something from the fact that there's not a single post here of the form "I got booted from AdSense but it was easy to get back in -- I just explained to them that I didn't do anything wrong."

If the AdSense publishing culture leans towards a "don't let people know about your site" policy, it is surely not without at least some justification.

BigDave

WebmasterWorld Senior Member bigdave us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 7:17 am on Oct 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Maybe you do have 1.6k pages of genuinely interesting content but its not text or its a forum?

Maybe in your world, but there are an awful lot of websites with millions of pages of real, useful, individually written content pages. I'd bet that intel goes over a million pages of real content on their site. Hell, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they had over one million pages available in PDF of their data books.

My large review site has 6105 reviews, increasing by over 100 per month. Not total pages, but actual reviews. The short pages have around 20k of text, not page size but text content. The largest pages have over 100k of text, and they rank better than most smaller pages (page size is a small factor compared to some of the others)

Lots of us have sites that are team efforts. 1.6k pages isn't that much at all.

Genuine1

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 6:32 pm on Oct 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

1.6K pages maybe not. 1.6 good pages is. I doubt there are that many on the web!

level80

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3137641 posted 6:50 pm on Oct 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I tend to nod off and lose interest around the 1,599th page of good content, which is a shame as the 1,600th page explains how it all ends! ;)

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