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Amazon's Omakase System (beta) .
Compatible with Google Adsense?
swa66

WebmasterWorld Senior Member swa66 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 10:09 am on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Omakase Links let Associates automatically feature products that visitors to the page are most likely to buy. With Omakase Links you do not need to chose which product, product line or even keyword that best fits a page. Our algorithms will optimize product offerings based on what the Associate has been successful with in the past; what that user has been interested in; as well as what the site is about. Omakase Links - leave it up to us! At present we are offering Omakase Links as a BETA to our Associates.

It would seem with my limited understanding of the ToS that it's not sensing what the page is about and as such would be allowed with a *very* thin margin, but others might have differing opinions.

It for sure looks pretty borderline.

I'm not really ready to let Amazon do this on my site, but they have in the past forced their way, so one might end up with less choices due to the restrictions in the ToS of Adsense.

I'll send off a note to the adsense team and will report back if and when they grace me with an answer beyond "read the ToS".

 

Hobbs

WebmasterWorld Senior Member hobbs us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 10:26 am on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

[as well as what the site is about]

reads: contextual to me, I'd put it on a separate page.

swa66

WebmasterWorld Senior Member swa66 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 11:08 am on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I'll add one answer from the amazon faq:

Can I use Omakase Links with other ads on my site?
Amazon.com does not require exclusivity for the use of Omakase Links. That means, Amazon.com does not prevent associates from using other companies advertising schemes (such as Google AdSense) in conjunction with Omakase Links. If you have questions as to whether another provider of advertising permits the use of its advertising on the same page as Omakase Links, please contact that provider. Amazon.com does not require of its associates that they use the Amazon.com advertising exclusively.

I wish Google would take the same relaxed approach.

frakilk

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 11:22 am on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've read about people who have emailed AdSense about this and they have ok'ed it. In fact I have just added it to my pages also running AdSense.

bird

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 12:29 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Did Google really give a blanket permission, or were they looking at a specific implementation? I'm asking because Omakase allows for a lot of customization, and the ads can look either like image banners, or like text ads very similar to AdSense. I don't expect Google to be happy with the latter on the same page as AdSense ads, but would love to hear otherwise.

Car_Guy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 12:56 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I'm not really ready to let Amazon do this on my site, but they have in the past forced their way...

I don't understand this. Mind explaining? Thanks.

dirkji

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 2:08 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I just emailed Google and got a "Can't do" for answer.

rden17

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 2:22 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Just tried it on one of my pages and I must say I have never seen worse targeting in my life. Amazon says you need to wait until there are at least 3-4 page views before you see targeted ads, but after refreshing about 15-20 times, I'm seeing camera ads on a health site.

hunderdown

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 2:27 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

rden17, that might be because it was YOU refreshing. Supposedly the ads will actually match to the visitor's interests, if Amazon can figure out who the visitor is, and not just to the page or site content.

I'm curious about it, and may try it on some pages that aren't working for AdSense or straight affiliate links, but I'm not putting it on an AdSense page.

farmboy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member farmboy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 2:58 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I just read this on another site:

Update: Point #2 is not true, as it happens. I have communicated with the Google AdSense team and they assure me that "According to our program policies, Omakase may be displayed on the same page as Google ads on your site."...

So some people seem to be getting a "Yes" and some a "No." Therefore, I declare the answer to the question of whether it can be used with AdSense is clear...as mud.

And if you get a "Yes" from AdSense, Omakase allows a lot of customization. If you make it look just like AdSense, you violate that AdSense "ads that mimic" stipulation.

And if you get a "No", there is always the question of is that "No" on each page or "No" on my entire site.

Glad I could help everyone.

FarmBoy

youfoundjake

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 3:01 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Just tried it on one of my pages and I must say I have never seen worse targeting in my life. Amazon says you need to wait until there are at least 3-4 page views before you see targeted ads, but after refreshing about 15-20 times, I'm seeing camera ads on a health site.

Is it in the Proctology section?

rden17

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 3:39 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

youfoundjake, glad you could contribute your knowledge to this thread

swa66

WebmasterWorld Senior Member swa66 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 4:09 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I got back from adsense:
We generally do not provide guidance on third-party networks while they
are still in beta launches.

Which clearly is not an OK in itself.

It goes on:

I can provide some clarification on our competing ads policy. To be more
specific, we do not permit Google ads to be published on web pages that
also contain what could be considered competing ads. This would include
all content-targeted ads as well as text-based ads.

So I think it's basically a no I got there.

Perhaps it's time for ASA to step in and clarify? The diverging results we get from the support people?

david_uk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 4:11 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

We've discussed this before. As it's contextual, the answer is NO.

The problem is that Google don't really keep up with what the competition is doing, so when you email them and ask they sometimes don't have a clue. Last time this was discussed I got a yes the first time round, then emailed them to tell them they are contextual and got a no. I'd go with the no, and be safe personally.

swa66

WebmasterWorld Senior Member swa66 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 5:22 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

As it's contextual, the answer is NO.

This begs for the question to define contextual ...
- is it checking to see what the site is about (we all do that manually somehow before we do anything)
- is it automated checking that;s makes it contextual (I' see no reason to, but ...)?
- is it only contextual if it targets what's on the specific page?

Since Adsense does the latter, I presume that they mean things that target what the PAGE is about as being contextual.

Amazon says (now need to believe them ... they target what the SITE is about ... Now any other advertiser does that in some form so if they consider that contextual they can ban all other advertising.

youfoundjake

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 5:44 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

youfoundjake, glad you could contribute your knowledge to this thread

In response to farmboys question..
And if you get a "No", there is always the question of is that "No" on each page or "No" on my entire site.

Per Googles TOS
We do not permit Google ads or search boxes accessing Google search services to be published on web pages that also contain what could be considered competing ads or services. If you have elected to receive contextually-targeted Google ads, this would include all other contextually-targeted ads or links on the same page as Google ads. This would also include ads throughout the site that mimic Google ads or otherwise appear to be associated with Google on your site.

I'm reading this as you cannot have contextual ads from another advertiser on the same page as adsense, but you may have it through out your site provided that they do not look like google ads.

This begs for the question to define contextual

i think that if a bot such as adsense visits the page, it is grabbing keywords to best determine what ads go there. If amazon has a bot visting each page that their ads appear on, it would seem to be contextual.

bird

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 5:47 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Amazon says (now need to believe them ... they target what the SITE is about ...

I played around with Omakase a bit (actually with the german language version, which they have given the english language name "Self-Optimizing-Links"), and there is clear evidence that they establish context by page and not by site. Any page they haven't crawled yet will show generic ads, and some of the others are very specifically targeted to individual terms only present on that page.

rden17

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 6:04 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

hunderdown, looks like you're right, its not pulling from my page, it's pulling from my amazon search history. I was creating amazon links for a client earlier for a topic that is pulling up on my page now. No indication that it is reading anything from the page as of yet

rden17, that might be because it was YOU refreshing. Supposedly the ads will actually match to the visitor's interests, if Amazon can figure out who the visitor is, and not just to the page or site content.

Clark

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 6:07 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

When YPN comes out beta, they can differentiate by stopping these ridiculous anti-competition measures that Google started. There will be more of these okinawa associates type offerings from other companies.

If Adsense and YPN have similar payouts, but I don't have to worry about what else goes on my page, I'll stick w/ YPN and drop adsense instead of programming my site to NOT god forbid display a competitor's product on the same page as Adsense.

OptiRex



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 6:28 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I played around with Omakase a bit

Call me stupid if you like however where can this thing be found?

rden17

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 6:31 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

login in to your amazon account and it should pop up in front of you

youfoundjake

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 6:31 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

OptiRex, you are not stupid, ur one of the smarter ones. but ehh...
when you log in to amazon affiliates you should see it at the very top of build links.

rden17

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 6:36 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

From Amazon's description of Omakase

Our algorithms will optimize product offerings based on what the Associate has been successful with in the past; what that user has been interested in; as well as what the site is about

OptiRex



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 6:42 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

login in to your amazon account

Aha! So it's not on general view to play around with...:-(

Erku

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 8:14 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Has anyone heard from Adsense any further?

Can we use this or no?

I would like to ask one more question. Let's say you put one Adsense unit and one Amazon Unit. Obviously you will loose some Adsense clicks correct? (if they targeted).

So what I am saying how do you use this in such a way to increase your overall revenue. Because some of the people who will go to amazon may not buy at all.

hunderdown

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 9:05 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Erku, I would only use this on a page where AdSense isn't working for me. But that's partly because I generally avoid having more than one adblock or banner on a page.

If I were you, I'd test a page with AdSense only, and then Omakase only, and then use the one that works best.

developerz

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 9:10 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I actually emailed the Adsense blog about this very issue early today asking them to make a post about this issue to clarify things. We'll see if they respond.

I've noticed that some bloggers have been writing about getting conflicting statements from Adsense support. This is something that they need to take a definitive stand on.

Personally, I think Omakase should be allowed with Adsense.

farmboy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member farmboy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 9:11 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Our algorithms will optimize product offerings based on what the Associate has been successful with in the past...

Assuming the Associate has more than one site and the sites are on different topics, I wonder if Amazon is able to determine what the Associate as been successful with on each site individually and display ads accordingly?

I might have sold a lot of baseball books for Amazon on my site about baseball, but I wouldn't want baseball book ads on my widgets site.

FarmBoy

gamiziuk

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 11:04 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I dont see what the big deal is with the new ads. I have been using the old keyword/category based Amazon ads for a while.

Most of my sites are about travel/tourism, so I will put an Amazon rectangle with cameras or camcorders (something people will take on a trip with them) next to an Adsense rectangle.

I think the two rectangles complement each other nicely. The Adsense ad box has 4 text ads, while the Amazon box has 4 products listed with nice thumbnail of each. (Saves me the trouble of hunting for photos for my pages.) I think my pages actually look BETTER with this setup.

Erku

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3032661 posted 11:20 pm on Aug 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Have you lost Adsense clicks due to implementing amazon?

This 48 message thread spans 2 pages: 48 ( [1] 2 > >
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