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Premium domains mean nothing anymore
mike2010




msg:4640234
 2:02 am on Jan 26, 2014 (gmt 0)

Or at-least in Google they mean absolutely nothing.

You can have the perfect 1 or 2 worded domain...with perfect SEO on the main page..and still might not show up anywhere anymore due to Google's latest updates.

I think this is the most pathetic change they have ever made in years. And totally reverses what used to be the most important aspect of SEO for a domain. (having those specific keywords in the domain, and nothing else) It even destroys the value of these domains, as they don't show up within the first few pages anymore. Or you have to work really hard TO show up again for your targeted keywords.

So many instances I see these days, where a news article will show up #1, in place of the premium domain...for the keyword search. It's like news sites taking over the world now....they used to be isolated to just the 'news' tab...but not anymore. It's not just news sites though...like I say, the value of having the perfect 1 or 2 worded domain for a particular keyword / keyword phrase means absolutely nothing anymore.

I don't know what Google was thinking regarding this aspect. Thankfully other search engines like Yahoo/Bing still 'respect' these values.

 

aakk9999




msg:4640251
 4:55 am on Jan 26, 2014 (gmt 0)

Or you have to work really hard TO show up again for your targeted keywords.

And rightly so. Why should a site rank just because it has the right domain name, if it has mediocre content?

However from what I can see, keyword domains with a great content are just as strong as ever.

mike2010




msg:4640328
 8:41 pm on Jan 26, 2014 (gmt 0)

And rightly so. Why should a site rank just because it has the right domain name, if it has mediocre content?


Because it used to be a main rule for a decade, even on the white-label end, to get your site highly ranked. (having the exact keywords for that phrase and no other keywords...and no dashes, etc) The 2nd most important used to be the .<title>. tags.


However from what I can see, keyword domains with a great content are just as strong as ever.


I see many, many sites (not even my own) that are nowhere to be found anymore...which should still be in the top 5.

It should always be a key contributing factor.

Simsi




msg:4640329
 8:51 pm on Jan 26, 2014 (gmt 0)

I used to buy keyword domains for exactly that purpose and the content was pretty decent but probably not as good as some of my competitors sites if I'm honest. For some time, I out-ranked them, now I don't, but every dog has it's day.

Like aakk9999 says, a kw domain still carries some clout but the content needs to be quality now and that's how it should be. The days of SEO shortcuts are dying fast.

Awarn




msg:4640348
 10:09 pm on Jan 26, 2014 (gmt 0)

Ok, look if I am a spammer am I going to spend very much money for a domain name (a premium domain) on a throw away site? The rage is churn and burn and it works. So is Google fighting spam or enabling spam with these new rules?

lucy24




msg:4640350
 10:13 pm on Jan 26, 2014 (gmt 0)

Any idiot can buy widgets dot com. Why would that automatically make it a better site?

superclown2




msg:4640473
 10:23 am on Jan 27, 2014 (gmt 0)


Any idiot can buy widgets dot com. Why would that automatically make it a better site?


Possibly because that 'idiot' spent a great deal of money buying that domain so he or she would be more likely than the guy who bought cheapwidgetsrus-online.info for a fiver to put up a good, focussed website designed for the long term. And if the 'idiot' already owned it why bother putting a junk site on it when the domain was highly saleable. Add to that the fact that widgets.com is easy to remember and gives a degree of confidence to the potential visitor then I would still buy one if the price was right - but not at the ridiculous prices being asked by some speculators. A premium domain is only a part of the total equation for a successful site.

tigger




msg:4640493
 11:24 am on Jan 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

I've got a 12 yrs old quality site that used to be first ( and had been so for 6 rs) now 4th the top sites are youtube / tripadviser / blogspot and the site is nothing to do with holidays!

Google doesn't give a toss about quality its all about pushing its own products and messing the serps up so much that the only way to get traffic is to buy ads

randle




msg:4640558
 7:44 pm on Jan 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

Google doesn't give a toss about quality its all about pushing its own products and messing the serps up so much that the only way to get traffic is to buy ads

Well, I don't know about that - but it definitely is "all about" making their very particular view of the world of search your reality; how it should look, what people see and from that even what people think they want to see.

Every single thing they do has a purpose, each brush stroke they make is a part of the picture their painting. The trick these days is to keep your capacity to step back from the painting, look at it and make your own decision about what their motivation is.

I will agree with you though, that the first thing that comes to my mind when I stare deeply into the results these days, is not impressions of "quality".

RedBar




msg:4640559
 7:54 pm on Jan 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

make your own decision about what their motivation is.


It's certainly not about accuracy nor quality in my sector of the Net, it's simply diabolical, I honestly do not believe they comprehend the searchers' questions at times even for very simple terms such as:

keywordwidget1 keywordwidget2 keywordwidget3

Bing seems to nail it every time, I've given-up using Google however do keep checking it to test its accuracy but, unfortunately, they are usually totally irrelevant results.

JD_Toims




msg:4640704
 9:37 am on Jan 28, 2014 (gmt 0)

You can have the perfect 1 or 2 worded domain...with perfect SEO on the main page..and still might not show up anywhere...

I think the problem so far I'm seeing in this thread [I haven't made it through the whole thing] is people are delusional about SEO these days. The evidence being so many posts like the above, which are totally contradictory -- If you don't even show up in Google [obviously] the SEO of the site is not perfect.

superclown2




msg:4640719
 11:24 am on Jan 28, 2014 (gmt 0)

I think the problem so far I'm seeing in this thread [I haven't made it through the whole thing] is people are delusional about SEO these days. The evidence being so many posts like the above, which are totally contradictory -- If you don't even show up in Google [obviously] the SEO of the site is not perfect.


The SEO may have been perfect for the last Google incarnation and may be for the next one but it isn't for the present one because the SERPs are, at the moment, in a mess.

However, to get back on topic; I'd welcome a downgrading of premium domains at present, it may bring some back on the market. Many of the desirable UK domains have been held by foreign speculators for years and the prices they are asking are frankly ridiculous.

Awarn




msg:4640752
 2:15 pm on Jan 28, 2014 (gmt 0)

I guess that all comes down to how you define SEO. The norm had been clear, concise, highly targeted information so the user could find the information fast. And the right domain name in many ways helped. I still think it matters. I know at times I will type in a URL thinking surely with a company that big this should be the domain. Then I find out it is completely different. I can't be the only person that does that.

The issue today is what is preached about making a site for the user, speed, descriptions, pictures, items in stock and on and on is basically what Google ranks. It strikes more like if a person is shopping for something and Google had the choice between sending them to a very nice mall and the State fair midway, they would choose the Fair midway. The reason is clutter or information overload. So many of the sites at the top seem like they have so many links doing different trivial things. flashing images, social media, movies etc. This reminds me of the fair where you have that same information overload with the crowd, different options, food, rides, the people sites, the feeling of which way should I go first. So you stop look around and take it all in before you move any further.

I think this is exactly what is happening with these sites. People stop and read these main pages and study all these ads, links etc. That translates into them being on the page a long time. Google sees that as an important page and they rank them. It wasn't a good shopping experience but it took time and they stayed on the page. So maybe JD Toims is right. Don't get a good domain because it helps the user find you. Maybe all that is needed is to create a carnival on your homepage with a lot of little distractions that baffle the user.

superclown2




msg:4640769
 3:22 pm on Jan 28, 2014 (gmt 0)

Maybe all that is needed is to create a carnival on your homepage with a lot of little distractions that baffle the user.


Dunno. I had a top 3 site for a certain term on a hot premium domain that I put a really cool, relevant video on. Within a week it vanished from the SERPs. A few weeks later I took it off and within days the site was back in the top 3. I put it back, the site disappeared again. I took it off again, .........

If I have any underperforming sites right now I take off any flash or videos and it often - but not always - helps.

mike2010




msg:4640913
 4:06 am on Jan 29, 2014 (gmt 0)

quality has definitely been utterly degraded with these penguin updates. no name bs sites that spammed their way to the top, or fortune 500 companies own Page 1 nowadays...regardless of how keyword specific your domain is.


Ok, look if I am a spammer am I going to spend very much money for a domain name (a premium domain) on a throw away site? The rage is churn and burn and it works. So is Google fighting spam or enabling spam with these new rules?


It encourages spam. As the owners of the 1, 2 worded premium domains obviously invested more to get those domains....much more than spammers that practically hack their way to the top.

more power to the hackers / spammers...and fortune 500 companies that buy their way to the top. And less power to the rest.

All that's in my mindset right now = "what the HECK was google thinking"

projectmanuk




msg:4640981
 11:53 am on Jan 29, 2014 (gmt 0)

Spam your way to the top or buy your way to the top, what's the difference?

projectmanuk




msg:4640983
 11:56 am on Jan 29, 2014 (gmt 0)

So called premium domains are sold at that premium because "they used to rank", not the other way around. In this logic all those big companies deserve the top rankings now because their domains are worth way more than others, even they are not selling them. Why would they put crap content on their valuable domain right? So they should rank!

CaptainSalad2




msg:4640985
 12:06 pm on Jan 29, 2014 (gmt 0)

premium domains are still a good buy in some cases, not for SEO but general marketing. I'm looking at one myself now for £450!

P.S is anyone else starting to have dreams about Google and Matt cuts? (no not like that) Im wondering if I read to many forums about G or G is now targeting our dreams with adds somehow jk

aakk9999




msg:4640986
 12:12 pm on Jan 29, 2014 (gmt 0)

Why would they put crap content on their valuable domain right? So they should rank!

I have seen many whose content was not all that great - there were many better sites. At the end, it comes back at this:

Or you have to work really hard TO show up again for your targeted keywords.

Having a premium domain does not mean a ranking entitlement. The fact that the domain cost more does not automatically mean the owners will put more effort into creating content.

CaptainSalad2




msg:4641000
 1:21 pm on Jan 29, 2014 (gmt 0)

I was just looking at some backlink profiles and onpage factors of sites that are doing fairly well, unless you’re a brand the little sites that are currently at the top of local SERPS seem to have done liitle/no on and off page SEO when looking at their backlink profile and on page factors, minimal mention of the targeting phrases if that.

SEO 2014 could just be don’t pick up a penalty, don’t try to hard, could be as simple as that!

I also note that when I type in “widget service AREA” I get different sites when I type in “widget service(s) AREA” and “widget service in area”. It’s like G either doesn’t understand variations of the same question or purposely keeps things shaken up so the sites at the top get a taste of the cake but to have the whole cake need PPC? It makes sense for them to do this from their point of view, annoying from ours.

Awarn




msg:4641004
 1:46 pm on Jan 29, 2014 (gmt 0)

Well if I look at a site from the start I consider the key words I expect the user to search with. Then I search for a domain name. Generally there is one domain I want because that is what I expect people to use.

Tell me about content. I think potentially that is the problem. Blogs, blogs blogs. Little content factories but what is the purpose? I see news articles all over google with the same AP article. All these blogs and articles talk about one single product. This article goes into why the Martian community is upset about this product. There are 12K products made this company and the only thing you can find is why the Martians are offended. But you know why that is all you can find. CONTENT. Somebody wrote a few thousand words about a product and how it offended somebody, probably them. Now really is that content that is relevant? Those poor people that want to buy the item have a hard time because they can't even find the product for sale. But oh you can find the article 25 times from CNN, ABC huffintonpost etc (all basically the same). But that is CONTENT. No really it is DUPLICATE content like 24 times over. Lets look at blogs. What are they? What level of knowledge do the people have that create this CONTENT. Do they really know the subject? Many times the answer is no but it is thousands of words of CONTENT.

So on another thread it was discussed by Goodroi how much description should be used to describe a product. It appeared the majority favored something less than 100 words. Maybe closer to 50. So going back to this CONTENT theory how will a site listing 12000 products ever outrank blogs and news articles if Google is so hung up on CONTENT. I take it at Google they all read the 30 page documents instead of the executive summaries. There you have some CONTENT.

[edited by: goodroi at 6:28 pm (utc) on Jan 29, 2014]
[edit reason] Making examples more generic [/edit]

EditorialGuy




msg:4641030
 3:54 pm on Jan 29, 2014 (gmt 0)

So on another thread it was discussed by Goodroi how much description should be used to describe a product. It appeared the majority favored something less than 100 words. Maybe closer to 50. So going back to this CONTENT theory how will a site listing 12000 products ever outrank blogs and news articles if Google is so hung up on CONTENT. I take it at Google they all read the 30 page documents instead of the executive summaries. There you have some CONTENT.


Google [organic Web] Search isn't Yelp, Angie's List, or the Yellow Pages. It's a spidered search engine, and spidered search engines have always been about content.

EditorialGuy




msg:4641037
 4:20 pm on Jan 29, 2014 (gmt 0)

Getting back to domains, some EMDs (location-based EMDs) seem to be doing very well in Google.

But let's look at the bigger picture: Should a site get a "go to the head of the queue" pass from Google because it contains the right keywords? That seems excessive to me. Just because a domain name includes the phrase "red widgets" or "saint catherine of siena" doesn't mean it's the definitive site about either of those topics. (Besides, Google claims to have more than 200 ranking factors in its algorithm, so why would anyone expect domain name to trump everything else?)

Another thought: If I were running a search engine, I'd probably vary the amount of credit given for those keywords according to a site or page's other quality signals. In other words, a site or page would need to pass the smell test before credit for those keywords was awarded. This would help to keep sites from rising to the top, regardless of quality, just because their owners had bought "premium domains."

Awarn




msg:4641048
 4:47 pm on Jan 29, 2014 (gmt 0)

It should not trump by any means but it should carry weight. Other things like an SSL should, a shopping cart. Potentially EV SSL only because it does provide for some external verification. Dedicated server etc. Things that show professionalism and the willingness to spend money for the benefit of the consumer. And lets face if some of those factors were included a lot of the garbage would drop. How many of those blogs would disappear if they had to pay for server space etc.

EditorialGuy




msg:4641132
 2:02 am on Jan 30, 2014 (gmt 0)

Other things like an SSL should, a shopping cart.


A shopping cart? Well, there goes Wikipedia. :-)

superclown2




msg:4641183
 11:39 am on Jan 30, 2014 (gmt 0)

It should not trump by any means but it should carry weight. Other things like an SSL should, a shopping cart. Potentially EV SSL only because it does provide for some external verification. Dedicated server etc


I've tried SSL and tried dedicated servers. Dunno what results other people have had but I didn't see any difference at all. In theory it should but Google and logic don't seem to go together very well these days.

aristotle




msg:4641221
 2:26 pm on Jan 30, 2014 (gmt 0)

i wonder how the search engines will handle the new special domains that started rolling out yesterday (1-29-2014).

Starting today (Jan. 29), the first seven of hundreds of new generic top-level Web domains—the suffixes that appear to the right of the dot in a domain name address—will go live on the Internet. If all goes as planned, hundreds of new domains will roll out all year representing the largest domain name expansion in the history of the Internet.

What's rolling out?

Donuts, the largest registry for new gTLDs is introducing: .bike, .clothing, .guru, .holdings, .plumbing, .singles and .ventures. The registry, which applied for more than 300 gTLDs, plans to roll out an additional seven on Feb. 5: .camera, .equipment, .estate, .gallery, .graphics, .lighting and .photography.
[adweek.com...]

From what I've read, most of these new domains will be very expensive, which could be a "signal" that whoever owns one is a "serious player", and therefore merits a higher ranking just on the basis of having the money to pay for it.

I've also read that some big brands have been given an opportunity to buy these domains ahead of time in a special private auction.

netmeg




msg:4641247
 3:18 pm on Jan 30, 2014 (gmt 0)

God I hope not.

.guru

<snort>

EditorialGuy




msg:4641293
 6:08 pm on Jan 30, 2014 (gmt 0)

i wonder how the search engines will handle the new special domains that started rolling out yesterday


Isn't it reasonable to assume that user testing and behavior will influence the amount of weight (if any) that the search engines give to those new, high-priced TLDs?

IMHO, that's a more likely scenario than a search engineer's saying "Wow, these guys are paying $50,000 and up for their TLDs, so their sites must be worthwhile."

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