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A Good Panda... Google confirms a softer, better targeted update
whatson




msg:4594367
 9:31 pm on Jul 18, 2013 (gmt 0)



Finally a more targeted panda update. One that is intelligent enough to leave good sites out of the "penalty".

I was nearly going to post this yesterday, as wife's blog was suddenly ranking well in Google, but I couldn't find any posts about Panda anywhere, so wasn't sure if that was the case. But it would appear so, Google are refining their Panda algo, so other sites, that may not have the best design, etc, still dont suffer. [searchengineland.com...]

 

purplekitty




msg:4597066
 6:43 pm on Jul 27, 2013 (gmt 0)

I wonder how that would compare with, say, the impact of a boost from Page 2 (or even from the bottom of page 1) to the top three results on Page 1?

Well, I'm sure that would be even better! How much so, I don't know. I don't see myself ever unseating the majority of the websites on page 1. In the meantime, I'm pretty happy where I am landing now as compared to the beginning of the month. I am always up to being happier though should I move to the first page!

Martin Ice Web




msg:4597077
 7:49 pm on Jul 27, 2013 (gmt 0)

I don't think the activity level in this thread is indicative of anything. Many website owners were commenting about their recoveries when the changes started in a different thread a week before this thread existed.


Please have a look at the member post counts of this recovery stories. 9 out of 10 are new members with only 1 post! It seems like google employees have created accounts to make some good weather. I sticky mailed one and got no answer at all.
And I dindīt see one recovery story in other german forums.
I donīt believe this recovery stories for just 1 cent. Meanwhile I see amazon + ebay ( ebay.d_e/bhp ) took over the serps again. And forum posts from 2002!

purplekitty




msg:4597113
 12:59 am on Jul 28, 2013 (gmt 0)

Please have a look at the member post counts of this recovery stories. 9 out of 10 are new members with only 1 post! It seems like google employees have created accounts to make some good weather. I sticky mailed one and got no answer at all.
And I dindīt see one recovery story in other german forums.
I donīt believe this recovery stories for just 1 cent. Meanwhile I see amazon + ebay ( ebay.d_e/bhp ) took over the serps again. And forum posts from 2002!


Well, I'm real and my site recovered, so....feel free not to believe it?

It's pretty conspiratorial and not realistic to think that Google cares enough to create aliases on WebmasterWorld this time solely for the purpose of bolstering what some webmasters are seeing.

That said, the recoveries do seem to be concentrated in the U.S. or at least North America.

purplekitty




msg:4597117
 1:06 am on Jul 28, 2013 (gmt 0)

So I just went and looked at the recovery stories and I didn't see one person with only 1 post, much less 9 out of 10. Most people have more posts than me.

SEOPTI




msg:4597123
 1:32 am on Jul 28, 2013 (gmt 0)

All fake, there are no recoveries, better get some soft ice instead of soft panda.

turbocharged




msg:4597137
 4:10 am on Jul 28, 2013 (gmt 0)

If Google's updates were a secret plot to sell more AdWords, Google wouldn't favor commercial results in so many searches that could be either informational or transactional, depending on user intent.

I could not even begin to compare informational queries/websites to those who physically manufacture the products they sell. For many informational queries, Google has the destination websites monetized with Adsense. For those who produce the products they sell, many are finding themselves competing against super affiliates of the likes of Amazon or auctioneers such as eBay.

Regardless of the above, I can see why Google would display some commercial sites on informational queries. Users seeking information are likely attempting to solve a problem or determine a solution to a defined set of criteria. So while a user is merely seeking information at that moment, an algorithm would attempt to predict the next step in the purchase cycle for how that consumer would act on the information they have now been empowered with.

I tend to look at most informational sites and affiliate marketers as the same. Both often have collected information from other sources and present it to users in a different way in hopes of either generating a sale or producing a click on an Adsense ad. Although both have their roles in the consumption cycle, I base my opinions on seeing many reputable businesses that produce, ship, support and warranty products who are fighting for visibility in a search engine that has picked winners and losers based on their extracurricular relationships with Google.

Google has and does treat informational queries much differently than those of businesses who sell physical goods. Quite simply an informational query can't be monetized by Google in the same way as a product. Comparing information based sites to those of brick and mortar businesses is like comparing an apple to a 14 ounce strip steak IMO. Granted, they are both edible but they are not even in the same food groups.

Outside of the scant number of recoveries noted, particularly among those who do not sell physical goods, soft panda has done little to impact those businesses/sectors I monitor. These are real businesses, with real employees who service the customer from the first contact to well beyond the sales with product support and warranties. We could compare this to Amazon who simply presents products to consumers, takes their money and ends their relationship with the customer for that transaction at that point (excluding the opportunity to leave a review). The user experience does not end when the product ships and the consumer has questions, needs a replacement part or must send the product back in for warranty service.

The implications of Google's algorithm and market dominance leaves many small businesses in a difficult dilemma. Do they spend more on Adwords to be seen or sell their products on a whitelisted property (Amazon) to recover a portion of their lost sales over the last year. Already faced with significant financial pressure from global competition, these businesses now must consider cutting even deeper into margins for their survival. Most information based sites do not have this problem as their staff, if any, is relatively small in comparison to what it takes to bring manufactured goods from the factory floor to the market.

Some of the business owners/execs I know had hopes that the softer panda would help their sites. I did my best to temper their expectations because I feel that the current trends in Google organics is following a path many have predicted - the end of organic search except where Google has no other options to monetize that specific query.

Just as there is plenty of information to support conspiracy theories with Google, there is also an equal amount of information to support the contrary. Google Compute Engine will compete with Amazon's AWS. Google's Nexus tablet competes with Amazon's Kindle Fire. Despite that, both Google and Amazon are both pushing products/services to support a warehouse shopping experience that originates online and ends when the customer picks up their goods in a locker (Google's BufferBox and Amazon's Locker). Although I have my own theories, the fact remains that Google is extremely profitable while Amazon continues to generate losses. At one point or another, Amazon could become a prime target for a takeover. Who would be better positioned, with similar assets and the money to buy, than Google? Granted, such a takeover would have little impact on informational sites. But for the manufacturing industry, which has seen its heart ripped out by unfair trade agreements, such a merger would devastate those manufacturers who are now struggling to hang on.

EditorialGuy




msg:4597183
 3:41 pm on Jul 28, 2013 (gmt 0)

Comparing information based sites to those of brick and mortar businesses is like comparing an apple to a 14 ounce strip steak IMO. Granted, they are both edible but they are not even in the same food groups.


Yes, and that's one of the reasons why Google's SERPs are often so bad. Google may try to divine user intent, but if Joe User is searching on "ms monster of the seas," how does Google know if Joe is a ship fan, a potential cruiser who's looking for a Monster of the Seas cruise review, or someone who's ready to book a cruise? If the SERP is based on Google's guess about user intent, the results may be totally wrong, and if the results are designed to cover all the bases (as they often seem to be), they'll be a mish-mash of pages from--to use your term--different food groups.

There may be a way out of this quandary, but if there is, Google hasn't found it.

breeks




msg:4597193
 5:03 pm on Jul 28, 2013 (gmt 0)

All fake, there are no recoveries, better get some soft ice instead of soft panda.


Recovery here, starting on the 12, leveling off on the the 16th, and then moving up slowing since then. Traffic is now 20% above same time 2012 after being down 25% all year.

I have tried so many things could not say what worked and what didn't.

All I know is most of my top results are back. Even have a couple of number 1 and 2 spots.

Results have been holding for two weeks now.

purplekitty




msg:4597196
 5:34 pm on Jul 28, 2013 (gmt 0)

Recovery here, starting on the 12, leveling off on the the 16th, and then moving up slowing since then. Traffic is now 20% above same time 2012 after being down 25% all year.


Similar story here.

chalkywhite




msg:4597342
 8:16 am on Jul 29, 2013 (gmt 0)

@whitey sorryry for the late reply had IT free weekend.

this graph is better, shows the dip on may 9th and recovery last week, its still holding.Looks around 20% at the mo.

[tinypic.com...]

[edited by: chalkywhite at 8:21 am (utc) on Jul 29, 2013]

Martin Ice Web




msg:4597343
 8:19 am on Jul 29, 2013 (gmt 0)

@purplekitty, then you are the 1 out of 10. In Germany i canīt see one qebmaster claiming a recovery, no stories at all. Not even a new form-post about soft panda. Maybe the softened Panda in english queries? And then roll it out for different languages?

ecom, germany

smithaa02




msg:4597398
 2:03 pm on Jul 29, 2013 (gmt 0)

We're experiencing some sort of recovery...but it is slow and erratic. Sometimes we'll drop down a bit...sometimes we'll spike up...but overall trend is upwords...maybe a spot up every 3 days on average?

turbocharged




msg:4597569
 2:56 am on Jul 30, 2013 (gmt 0)

but if Joe User is searching on "ms monster of the seas," how does Google know if Joe is a ship fan, a potential cruiser who's looking for a Monster of the Seas cruise review, or someone who's ready to book a cruise? If the SERP is based on Google's guess about user intent, the results may be totally wrong, and if the results are designed to cover all the bases (as they often seem to be), they'll be a mish-mash of pages from--to use your term--different food groups.

This is the problem for product based queries where there is no guessing. Google is not forced to provide a diverse set of results for products as they might be for someone searching for "ms monster of the seas." Instead of diversity for product based queries, there is domain crowding from major players like Amazon and eBay, who happen to outrank even the manufacturers of the products themselves.

There may be a way out of this quandary, but if there is, Google hasn't found it.

Diversity is the first step in finding their way out of this mess for product based queries, if they really want to get out. Seemingly something as easy to correct, such as domain crowding, I am left with the impression that Google does not want to change. Profits at Google are rising at a good pace, user defection is minimal and the latest customer satisfaction survey shows Google dropped some but is still slightly in the lead. The financial incentives for Google to change are not there, and in fact reinforces what they have been doing.

purplekitty




msg:4597579
 4:45 am on Jul 30, 2013 (gmt 0)


@purplekitty, then you are the 1 out of 10. In Germany i canīt see one qebmaster claiming a recovery, no stories at all. Not even a new form-post about soft panda. Maybe the softened Panda in english queries? And then roll it out for different languages?

Where are you getting this 1 out of 10 number? Or 9 out of 10 only have 1 post? I posted that I went back and looked and don't see anyone with only 1 post and virtually all people reporting recoveries here have more posts than me.

And again, I also said it does appear that the people posting about recovery are from the U.S.

Martin Ice Web




msg:4601467
 8:03 am on Aug 13, 2013 (gmt 0)

Are there any REAL recoveries since this panda?

Dindīt hear of any on WebmasterWorld and nothing german forums. In my niche its has nothing changed, brands , amazon, ebay and new crap. No old former established sites are back.

So what did this panda?

ecom, germany

Whitey




msg:4601474
 8:37 am on Aug 13, 2013 (gmt 0)

Are there any REAL recoveries since this panda?

I "believe" there were many, but also for many the increase may not have amounted to much. If the initial % drop was say, 80% and the May recovery was say 50% on a base of 20, the improvement isn't going to set the world on fire with excitement. You can play with the maths and come up with different scenarios. Some complete one's may have occurred, but I'm sceptical of this and haven't heard such reports en-masse.

That's why I think you aren't seeing [ perhaps ] a lot of change in the SERP's. Recoveries might have been in the long tail as well, so all you have to go on are 3rd party traffic monitoring tools and "buzz" in these and other forums.

Even, if there were recoveries, such sites should be investing in redesigns etc [ if they have any resources left and haven't been burned for good, or indeed still have the confidence to continue ].

One of my mantra's is that Google needs to do more to encourage diversity of search results with success stories that provide confidence to enable en-masse re investment. We are seeing a big sea-change from Google in communications [ despite the sceptics saying "ni" ]. It just needs get much better IMO.

Whitey




msg:4619729
 6:19 am on Oct 29, 2013 (gmt 0)

I just noticed a site that lifted in the same pattern as in July, almost a month later in August . Same % lift approx , same code etc.

Probably many folks are not going to analytics as much for affected sites, but I wondered if anyone experienced a similar lift not yet reported.

Bewenched




msg:4619906
 11:37 pm on Oct 29, 2013 (gmt 0)

@Whitey,
We had lifted back in July for our now 16 year old ecomm site , but the last couple of weeks have been horrible.

Whitey




msg:4619926
 2:11 am on Oct 30, 2013 (gmt 0)

@Bewenched - Does it seem like an another Panda cycle hit you?

Martin Ice Web




msg:4631757
 7:46 am on Dec 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

@Bewenched, we see the same, growing traffic since 4 month and since mid of November it is declining every day. In last two weeks we lost every day 10% from whats left.
We have a >90% bounce rate now, from less than 20%. Serps in our niche look like pre "a good panda". Same old brands, amazon, ebay. Lots of domain stuffing.
Results for "synonyms" are way up, google keeps guessing what the users searches as long as it can not find it on amazon or ebay.
It is a shame whats left from a search engine that was great to use.

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