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The State of the Internet (2013) - Summarised perspectives.
hitchhiker




msg:4583410
 11:11 am on Jun 12, 2013 (gmt 0)

My personal observations, and summary of information taken from a number of forums, and the personal observations of 20 or so webmasters with a combined traffic of 10s of millions of visits per day.

I've tried (my best) to summarise what I've seen in relation to this, and not editoralise too much.

Disclaimer to newer folk: Take this for what it is, a set of observations - somewhat muddied by our personal experience and expectations. We do not work for Google, we only have part of the picture.

Summary

A fairly clear pattern has emerged: The fight against spam was HUGE. At some level Google failed to react to the crossfire generated, and collateral damage. It hit widely, but no one more than UGC (User Generated Content). In part made possible by the narrowed gathering of, and seeming reluctance to consider, wider-perspective webmaster feedback.

Why all this UGC?

We are normally an order of magnitude bigger than everyone else. Things hit us first and more noticeably. Our area is 'gray', both quality and otherwise. We fight SPAM at the site level and tend to see updates before others do (due to our reach and size). In some regards, we may signal what's to come for SMEs (small and medium enterprises).

  • UGC site owners are hurting (pretty much across the board).
  • Even StackOverflow seems to have been hit in 2013 (according to alexa*)
  • "Too many updates, they're being careless." - 500 a year according to Matt.
  • WebmasterWorld (alexa* again) declining since 2011 (it's safe, don't worry, we all love it here!)
  • Reported: Perhaps a general decline in search traffic via Google (now at #2 spot on Alexa - Facebook #1)
  • Quality doesn't seem to be much of a factor. Many authorities hit hard.
  • No clear examples (so far) of older UGC that survived.
  • Examples of things like 'blank' sites, double H1, '2005 black hat SEO' making it into the top 10 (a lot of this seems to be done at the bottom of the page) Read the thread, it's quite entertaining*
  • Bing showing very different results.
  • Panda provided a boost for a lot of us UGC. I saw my traffic rise through 2011-2012. (21.5 nov 12 corrected that.)
  • (Unsure) Custom software, or updating your look may have resulted in another inadvertant penalty (*cross-fire, sticking your neck out)
  • Non-UGC: Manual adjustments for keyphrases patching and semi-correcting the problem here and there.
  • "Hard to say where traffic drops are occuring, it's just 'everywhere'"
  • Links are at the centre of this storm. UGC Webmasters forced to No-Follow everything meant organic user preference from the wider audience was lost. Hurts everyone.
  • The google product forums have unintentionally become an abysmal way to keep us from getting answers. (Our experience as we ventured in there recently to hunt down some answers)
  • Brands may not be favoured, but at this level of chaos - they're more likely to survive it.
  • According to some people: Black hat has become non-viable. If that's true, it may have been done by over-reaching on too many signal patterns.

    I've left a lot out (paid links), as I haven't personally been following it. This is just my own meandering personal perspective.

    * "Cross-fire collateral damage." In a time when bullets are flying around you, keep your head down. In web terms, that would mean blending in with the crowd. "Use traditional software, don't do anything custom-made. No-Follow every link." That's not a great situation, that hurts everyone.

    * Alexa works pretty well (in my experience) for large sites - those of us in the top 10,000

    * Some entertainment: [webmasterworld.com...]

    Fully personal opinion

    I'm a white hat SEO, for 15 years. First website made in 1994. IMHO: Good content has never been hit so hard, and to this extent. Some may argue, the current state of affairs will result in the loss of smaller deserving businesses, those without the deep pockets to survive turmoil to this degree.

    IMHO Focus on content, even now. Nothing else has a longer-term chance of survival.

    I don't believe any of this is intentional on Google's part, I believe them when they say they don't favour brands. PPC would be a better place for brands in general (they are used to that and can afford it, everyone wins). Leave organic to a fair mix of SME and brand - then the ad space used above the SERPs would be acceptable.


    Question to the community

    Do we need, as a community, to establish better dialogue with Google? If so, a proper way to do that. To keep the signal to noise ratio down. Real Googlers participating, hundreds (not 2). I believe some inside the web-spam team might agree, please speak up.

    [edited by: goodroi at 1:18 pm (utc) on Jun 12, 2013]
    [edit reason] per author's request, added question to the community [/edit]

  •  

    hitchhiker




    msg:4585029
     6:54 pm on Jun 17, 2013 (gmt 0)

    Thanks for that @totalodds - I just tweeted it also. It's strange having to work like this in 2013 - I really thought it would all have been worked out properly by now :(

    ho hum.

    mcneely




    msg:4585034
     7:03 pm on Jun 17, 2013 (gmt 0)

    I still don't see how any of Google's search strategies are supposed to be forcing us to buy Adwords


    Interesting that right around the time all of this Panda Penguin came along, there was an ad blitz for adwords .. we got calls from every corner of the globe it seemed (from Google subs and resellers, to actual paper mail in the mail box) encouraging, and rather strongly, that adwords needed or should be used -- "give it a try" they said .. "it will increase your traffic" they said and on and on.

    Nope .. I'm of the opinion that Google knew exactly what it was doing, and how it was going to do it .. Adwords played a major role in the marketing strategy.

    hitchhiker




    msg:4585065
     8:19 pm on Jun 17, 2013 (gmt 0)

    The shocking reality of how easy it is to spam these SERPS is now bordering on ludicrous: [webmasterworld.com...]

    Whomever is doing it, started by using 'MrCutts' in the url (as seen here: [imgur.com...] ) and is now randomly making his point by putting dupes of it up all over the SERPS.

    This is messed up, our business are being handled by this algorithm. We should be screaming at the top of our voices. I've never seen anything like this in 19 years of working on the internet.

    Totally sick. Please follow the advice given earlier and tweet this thread (or make a better one and tweet that!)

    hitchhiker




    msg:4585105
     10:37 pm on Jun 17, 2013 (gmt 0)

    Well, I think i have to throw in the towel. Before this I had no idea how bad it had gotten, weeks later I'm really broken. I've pushed and pushed, there doesn't seem to be anything on the other side.

    Cheers to everyone who spent their time posting, contributing and otherwise helping out. Sorry we couldn't get a better result.

    I spent a bit of time in the black-hat forums, to see their viewpoint:

    "They know they'll be able to keep setting up shop (it's easy, cheap and fast)" Result: The Webspam team will keep coming at them with everything they can, and people who can't defend themselves will be the only ones to pay the price.

    As I mentioned elsewhere "What they're doing is like solving internet-piracy by poisoning the population's water supply."

    I don't think they're evil, or doing any of this on purpose - I think this is just the beginning of them 'dropping the ball'.

    Here's to the de-centralised
    crowd-funded, open-source
    search + peer to peer app layer
    of the future! (5-10 years max).

    seoskunk




    msg:4585112
     11:23 pm on Jun 17, 2013 (gmt 0)


    Well, I think i have to throw in the towel. Before this I had no idea how bad it had gotten, weeks later I'm really broken. I've pushed and pushed, there doesn't seem to be anything on the other side.


    Why are you giving up now?

    hitchhiker




    msg:4585116
     11:44 pm on Jun 17, 2013 (gmt 0)

    I don't like the sound of my posts anymore - I'm getting depressed the more I analyse.

    I didn't assume it could ever get this bad. The 'payday' hacks threw me over the edge. It's easier for them, nothing to carry.

    I look at my competition, they're all gone. I look at the 'replacements' they're all *meh*. I think back to fighting for 2 weeks on GPF, having to explain why forums aren't all useless on a forum - It was silly.

    I realised they use twitter announcements to source questions, then cherry pick them. It's not useful.

    I'm one of those 'mildly autistic' Asperger types - this is everything I don't enjoy about the world we live in.

    Honestly?

    Probably 'sadness'.

    [edited by: hitchhiker at 11:52 pm (utc) on Jun 17, 2013]

    seoskunk




    msg:4585117
     11:51 pm on Jun 17, 2013 (gmt 0)

    Your thread has provoked response throughout the webmasterworld community. That's a great achievement but perhaps we should learn a lesson from blackhats. A more proactive stance if you like..........

    Feelings are running high among webmasters as Brands dominate Search and specialist websites and SME's take massive damage.

    I suggest we vote with our feet and call a flash day to turn off our ads.

    Awarn




    msg:4585122
     12:09 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    hitchhiker nothing is achieved by running. You asked what is the state of the internet. Even that shocked me, a little. But like I said before we need to learn to adapt. We need to know more of how these blackhats achieve this in order to get Google to change. Personally I am a huge baseball fan. If the ump is calling strikes way off the plate you don't throw over the plate. You throw where they are calling it. Same with Google. If they reward these techniques then learn them or fail with foolish pride. I seriously would like to know how this was achieved and so fast.

    Play_Bach




    msg:4585126
     12:11 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    > there was an ad blitz for adwords ..
    > we got calls from every corner of the globe it seemed

    @mcneely - As someone who went to see 'The Internship' (a really bad movie, probably the worst I've seen in years!) - selling AdWords is what the objective/plot of the movie is all about. Just a big infomercial for Google.

    Business is business, and advertising revenue is Google's primary focus. Period. Anything that interferes with that will be mercilessly dealt with by Big G. A website like yours or mine, is but a drop of water in a vast ocean as far as Google is concerned. Be realistic about your site, not delusional.

    hitchhiker




    msg:4585130
     12:28 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    hitchhiker nothing is achieved by running

    yeah, you're right - but I'm freakin' knackered - I need to back off for now :( Anybody can pick up this torch, we'd all benefit from that.

    Feelings are running high [..] Brands dominate [..] specialist websites and SME's take massive damage.

    There are 10, 20, 30, 40 of us? actively posting about this.

    It's the Niemöller quote, but in a small community, highly specialised, only effecting the future, in a world we, as people, already barely understand. Only those currently hit have time to join in. It's damn-hard to gain any mass-traction for that.

    For various (non-evil) reasons, it's simply easier for them like that.

    Awarn




    msg:4585132
     12:43 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    Well look at that website (paydayloans....)whats in it that makes it rank? There has to be clues there. Now I am just a guy that has been hit by Google. Some of you truly understand this stuff. I just see a lot of blogs and url and file names saying payday loans. Is there a common denominator? Google related products? what's there? Is Google branding their products what?

    HuskyPup




    msg:4585134
     12:50 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    There ya go hitchhiker, they've beaten you without doing anything!

    Only concerted legal action against Google for Copyright infringement will stop this however this would have global ramifications for every search engine.

    Do Google stockholders actually realise that Google is stealing copyrighted material?

    Does every search engine doing the same realise this?

    Some of us are concerned, many do not even comprehend what it is that Google are doing with hardly anyone questioning their actions and other companies, Wikipedia especially, in ripping-off original material and presenting as their own.

    Questions should be asked now as to precisely what is this so-called new "knowledge engine". Is it going to be a re-hash of what they've copied from our sites? Is it going to be a Wikipedia info fest? Or will it be more of the same?

    Google ripping off sites/webmasters for free meanwhile raking in billions from advertising OUR knowledge?

    mcneely




    msg:4585141
     1:02 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    @Play_Bach ..

    heh .. I know what Google is .. Adservers are what they are ..

    goodoldweb




    msg:4585173
     4:44 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    I don't like the sound of my posts anymore - I'm getting depressed the more I analyse.

    I feel your pain. Im a webmaster/SEO since 1997, never have i seen the state of the SERPs so bad. Traffic to my websites continue to fall in both numbers and quality and is quite anemic in most cases nowadays. I run a number of ecom sites as well as stores on ebay, ecrater etc. It is DEAD all around.

    It looks and feels like the web's main traffic driving source is no more.

    Buy adwords?...who can afford those crazy prices...except for big brands.

    Actively spreading the news to everyone we know may be our only salvation. Let everyone know about the alternatives and the massive damage Google is currently causing to this once great echo system.

    They've sold out and unfortunately there is no turning back... ...so while we are waiting for answers(?)..and buy ads ELSEWHERE...spread the sad news!

    mrguy




    msg:4585182
     5:47 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    While I feel for hitchhiker, this is not a new trend with Google. If you look back years, you will find many of the same types of threads started by those who where decimated with a change Google made.

    Although, I am happy to see that at least now when it happens, I see a lot more resentment among the community towards Google whereas before many would just shout the “don’t put all your eggs in one basket phrase” when back then they were really the only viable basket. In today’s world, they are no longer the only basket you can put your eggs in.

    We among this community helped Google get to where they are. In the beginning, we spread the word. Google never had to advertise. Google guy could actually give valuable information and take action against certain things because he didn’t have to consult the attorneys first.

    Unfortunately, once they went public, that was the beginning of the end for any two way real communication.

    The state of Google search is what it is. There is no way possible to have real dialog with the spam team because as a public trading company, they cannot say anything business related that has not been vetted by lawyers. So, I would not count on anything of that nature ever happening with any meaningful outcome.

    Now is the time to re-invent yourself and find another way. Don’t just give up and let Google win.

    Play_Bach




    msg:4585183
     6:12 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    @mcneely

    Sorry if my post seemed directed at you, it wasn't my intention (I blame too many beers at the pub if that's how it came across). Rather, I'm in agreement with you. My advisory that webmasters be realistic about just how much weight they think they have regarding Google was meant for all, not you in particular. My apologies.

    mcneely




    msg:4585187
     6:35 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    No worries @Play_Bach .. I understand -- upon after years of making it thru the dance time and again, I too became somewhat taken aback by the seemingly sudden downturn thrust upon me by the Bobbsey Twins (Panda/Penguin) ..

    Google once was .. but is no longer ... IMHO .. I'm just really glad that I worked the exposure of my web properties in a much more diverse way, and didn't depend so heavily on just one source.

    ColourOfSpring




    msg:4585296
     9:52 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    Google would only listen if we started something like a "click strike" for a day where we encouraged people not to click on ads. At the same time we would encourage SMEs to pause their Google Ad campaigns for the same period of time. Strike action is the only thing that gets attention because it hurts Google's revenues.

    HuskyPup




    msg:4585299
     10:16 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    Is Google playing a double bluff game and hoping that this will all peter out and go away if they leave it long enough?

    Their really sensible and logical course of action would be dialogue since that, assuming they gave us some really sensible and helpful answers/assistance, would stop this thread and the thought of any concerted action immediately.

    Google's problem would be if this discussion were to grow louder and longer and picked up by the mainstream press and governments, then they would have to take action to placate the growing volume of complaints and actually answer questions. Remember this is already happening in the UK Parliament with regards to their taxation, it wouldn't take much more of a push to get this thrust under MPs noses and the the EU for an even more in-depth investigation to take place.

    At the moment my guess is they're sitting with crossed fingers since it would undoubtedly cost them a lot of money once this can of worms is opened, realistically it probably would be more like Pandora's box!

    I was thinking last night, several have posted here about forming a "union" to fight Google, surely there must already be an international publishers' alliance or something that we could prod into action regarding copyright infringement?

    I've found one or two however we need someone well-versed in this sort of thing to advise the best course of action, after all, it would be a darned sight cheaper for all of us if there's something already there waiting to go rather than having to create something from scratch.

    ColourOfSpring




    msg:4585305
     10:30 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)


    Google's problem would be if this discussion were to grow louder and longer and picked up by the mainstream press and governments, then they would have to take action to placate the growing volume of complaints and actually answer questions. Remember this is already happening in the UK Parliament with regards to their taxation, it wouldn't take much more of a push to get this thrust under MPs noses and the the EU for an even more in-depth investigation to take place.


    HuskyPup, I think this is what Google worry about - a collective voice, officially represented, critical of Google's motives with regards to how they rank organic listings. At the moment, this is all "under the radar" - the algo is a business secret and Google are a private company. Google don't do dialogue, they do monologue (via carefully crafted "questions" to Matt Cutts). Dialogue will open a door Google do not want opened.

    Savanadry




    msg:4585309
     10:48 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    Google's problem would be if this discussion were to grow louder and longer and picked up by the mainstream press and governments, then they would have to take action to placate the growing volume of complaints and actually answer questions. Remember this is already happening in the UK Parliament with regards to their taxation, it wouldn't take much more of a push to get this thrust under MPs noses and the the EU for an even more in-depth investigation to take place.


    This is my tactic, don't get me wrong, I've experienced up and downs with G over the years, but this is the first time I've ever felt so strongly about it.

    It's the feeling of injustice that is driving me on.

    Why on earth did google allow negative SEO to become so easy.

    The case of the payday loans embarrassment for M Cutts just illustrates this perfectly for me - we all giggled when it made it into the top 5, but then 'poof' it was gone, never to return - well, what if that was your site? What if the blackhatters decided to take your site out of the serp's? It's so easy for them now.

    I dislike the monopoly, I dislike the complete disregard for the economic impact of ousting small and medium businesses from the SERP's in favour of big brands. I dislike the constant shortsighted, desperate algo updates which only seem to make things worse.

    I've been lobbying my MP to ask questions in the house of Commons about google's dominance in the UK market, and their grip on small / medium businesses.

    There's more than one way to skin a cat, think about what is important to your political rep's, what makes a good story for the press.... start piling on the pressure.

    goodoldweb




    msg:4585316
     11:14 am on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    I've been lobbying my MP to ask questions in the house of Commons about google's dominance in the UK market, and their grip on small / medium businesses.


    They are in bed with the regulator.

    content32




    msg:4585342
     12:13 pm on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    GREAT THREAD... good thing i came across this forum most other forums are just full of third world spammers....

    anyway, I agree about getting MP's involved especially in England its about time they actually did something for small businesses for once.

    Some serp results iv seen for some products are basically 4 ebay listings and 5 amazon listings (includes ad's)

    Also i think that google is a coercive monopoly created with no government backing which must be a first but it has been made because the internet is like its own country.. and google is the government.

    Alos another thing i have noticed is if you go on a blackhat forum there is hardly any complaining... when some one says they got penalized they just move onto another website......"churn and burn!".... and just replace the website. if 10 people do this and keep replacing there website after a penalty then nobody will get on the first page.

    All so with adwords introducing images into the ads as well you will basically have a whole ton of huge ads before the actual serp results....

    google is misleading searchers.. since google shopping results has changed to paid for status they haven't changed the sponsored info

    "Based on your search query, we think you are trying to find a product. Clicking in this box will show you results from providers who can fulfill your request. Google may be compensated by some of these providers.
    Prices do not include shipping costs. Additional shipping costs may apply. Prices shown include VAT and applicable fees."


    some<<< implies that some are not paid for....


    and also think about this when the adwords get images

    google adwords text ad
    google adword image ads
    google shopping results
    google side bar ads
    serp results

    currently one of my keywords with shopping results and adwords has

    10 organic results and 15 ADS!

    lol

    Alex997




    msg:4585352
     1:02 pm on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    I watched a SEOmoz Whiteboard Friday video a year or so ago, where the guy said that Google were so big now and had such a monopoly that the only people that can bring down Google, are Google themselves.

    Reading this (excellent) thread, I guess that's just what is happening.

    Our small business is fed up with Google throwing up garbage before us in the SERPs, so we are telling every business/person we talk to to switch to Bing. And given we are a hub for other medium-small businesses of every type, that's a big reach! Penguin 2.0 was the final straw.

    Hopefully with Apple iOS7 embedding Bing even more than before, (eg. default for Siri) Google's monopoly will start to crumble and they will have to move to a more 'quality content' based algorithm.

    [edited by: Alex997 at 1:49 pm (utc) on Jun 18, 2013]

    Savanadry




    msg:4585353
     1:11 pm on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)


    Our small business is fed up with Google throwing up garbage before us in the SERPs, so we are telling every business/person we talk to to switch to Bing. And given we are a hub for other medium-small businesses of every type, that's a big reach! Penguin 2.0 was the final straw.


    For those that remember, this is exactly how Firefox broke into the browser market and cracked IE's dominance - internet savvy people telling everyone who would listen over many months to switch from IE.

    Imagine an internet where search wasn't dominated and nobody held over 50% of the market? More choice for the consumer, more stability for businesses - win win.

    When you're recommending Bing, don't forget duckduckgo, ixstart, and other up and coming engines. A varied choice is what the internet needs.

    Savanadry




    msg:4585354
     1:13 pm on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    @ hitchhiker - please don't give up, your input is valuable. Maybe take some time away from it for a week or so and come back stronger. This is going to be a long fight, don't burn yourself out.

    steve40




    msg:4585361
     1:33 pm on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    @ hitchhiker don't give up, Big G must know there are some serious flaws currently in the results, ordinary consumers are beginning to find out, black hatters are getting in top ten results consistently and people are being ripped off when purchasing because the product does not exist, I do not believe this is good for G or for the internet but G has a problem do they only show brands ( safe but why should the consumer use G to search when they could just go to Amazon etc. straight off) but not what the internet was built for or do they go back to the drawing board and take some time to rethink how they rank pages and how to solve the current mess.

    From a purely personal perspective I would like to see G admit they need to have a rethink but they never will because of share prices, If they keep going and making the results more and more paid or own properties THEY WILL LOSE MARKET SHARE , LYCOS ALTAVISTA even Yahoo show that consumers expect adds but not when they become most of the results above the fold,

    So my advice is hunker down to survive things will change

    Steve

    Play_Bach




    msg:4585363
     2:06 pm on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    Imagine an internet where search wasn't dominated and nobody held over 50% of the market? More choice for the consumer, more stability for businesses - win win.


    Much as we'd all like to see this, it's just fantasy. Wishful thinking with about zero chance of happening anytime soon. Is Google manipulating results or is their algorithm broken? Welcome to the black box. Google is the dominant search engine by a huge margin and has been for years. That is the reality I continue to focus my energies on being successful in, not some fictional universe.

    HuskyPup




    msg:4585389
     3:29 pm on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    Much as we'd all like to see this, it's just fantasy.


    I'm fairly sure that in some countries it is actually illegal to have more than 50% of the domestic market.

    In the UK we can look back at the break-up of the brewing industry simply because of a few brewers' monopoly, whether that was good or bad depends on one's point of view however the government did drive it through plus Europe is supposedly not keen on monopolies, for example the insistance that LloydsTSB bank be broken up.

    If Brussels suddenly decides G IS a monopoly then they'd better start quaking in their boots.

    Savanadry




    msg:4585417
     5:29 pm on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    Much as we'd all like to see this, it's just fantasy. Wishful thinking with about zero chance of happening anytime soon.


    Absolutely no offence intended but how old are you? I've seen this happen before, so I know things like this DO happen.

    I'm not even mid 40's yet and when I was at school the internet hadn't been invented, Nelson Mandela was still in prison, the Berlin Wall was still up, I could go on but you get the gist. When you're young you think things are unsurmountable and the current situation will go on forever. Get a few more miles on the clock and you see nothing stays the same - whether you like it or not.

    Play_Bach




    msg:4585437
     6:28 pm on Jun 18, 2013 (gmt 0)

    @Savanadry

    I did say 'about zero chance of happening anytime soon' (not never in a million years). If you think Google is going down, just let us know what your ETA is so we can look for it.

    This 281 message thread spans 10 pages: < < 281 ( 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 > >
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