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Google Updates and SERP Changes - November 2012
xcoder




msg:4514422
 11:23 pm on Oct 31, 2012 (gmt 0)

< Continued from [webmasterworld.com...] >

Today has just been a miserable day.


For us this whole week has been miserable.

Traffic numbers more or less unchanged but hardly any sales, online enquiries or phone calls...(except for loads of spam emails). The only sales we did get came from paid ads.... organic visitors all seem to be dead beats.

It is like someone or something is cheery picking all the buyers and sending our way only the crap. I wounder who it is...

Off to reducing our ad spend again... the till is simply empty!

[edited by: tedster at 4:05 pm (utc) on Nov 2, 2012]

 

ak_web




msg:4514698
 2:54 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

In fact mods/Tedster please do delete my account & all posts associated with it. The real web hero's can then get down to business and tell us all how to have a stable ecom business with modern Google. Good day.


I remember you left this forum already about a year ago.

The same way as SnowMan68 and others can read 5 out of 35, same way you can just delete your account by yourself (just a tip))

xcoder




msg:4514700
 2:55 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

I am done filling the thread with my own complaints about these certain individuals. I have been holding it back for months now and finally had to let it go


"these certain individuals" are real webmasters with real websites, real merchandise, and real families to support with real mortgages and other real commitments. Real professionals. The actual definition of a "webmaster". Not some smacks playing up with word press templates/rss feeds and counting a dozen viewers per day (if they're lucky).

A true professional would have tried and at least listen to these old veterans and maybe he/she would learn something real instead of just feeding on google's PR crap...

[edited by: xcoder at 3:19 pm (utc) on Nov 1, 2012]

SevenCubed




msg:4514701
 2:57 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

I bet I speak for a lot of people when I say I am sick of having to weed through their useless comments.


Maybe, maybe not. I'm indifferent to "useless comments". If it bothers you that much you should be able to just tune out the individuals that irk you and not even sift through their posts.

Yes, sometimes we can go on a bit much about certain trends but do you take into account the member's overall persona? If they are going through a rough period that is out of the norm for their typical posts can't you have some empathy for them? This is a community of web workers, many of whom work alone in isolation, sometimes we need family who we know hear our frustrations.

I welcome the freedom of expression in all its forms, from those who whine, from the optimistic, the pessimistic, those who glorify, those who dislike. It helps me understand the pulse of the bigger picture.

If all I read all day long is thoughts from happy shiny people then I would know this forum is censored and worthless. Long live Webmaster World and freedom of expression. Whine connoisseurs, not so much.

<edit reason: censured to censored>

TypicalSurfer




msg:4514702
 3:10 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

From what I can see in the SERPs I watch, Google has actually cranked the commercial intent dial all the way up, not down! It's Amazon all over the first pages again just as during the late Summer 2012 host crowding debacle.


Amazon is "special". For your own sanity it's probably best to ignore them and look for ways to get on the page, co-existing is what I would shoot for, you won't move them off the result page.

TypicalSurfer




msg:4514717
 4:16 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

The tension in regards to google and it's motives is really just what Matt Cutts has been marinating for some time now; the notion that a person who gets up in the morning and wants to pay their bills, feed their family, be productive in their chosen endeavor is somehow "bad" for trying to "manipulate" a search algorithm. Some here are all too comfortable in adding to that particularly heinous meme when a member has a ranking issue. I assume most posting here are providing a market worthy good or service and like any other business person is in need of getting the word out, there is no "bad" in that. That is simply what we do.

Maybe webmasterworld members could take a kinder tone towards other webmasters instead of adapting the us vs. them mentality fostered by industry mouthpieces. Google has always been a social success, the problem they have now is that their core discipline has morphed into something that is at odds with most webmasters, it's probably time to recognize that.

MrSavage




msg:4514720
 4:34 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

I've been guilty of having Google rants in the past. That said some of the posting here lately is complete garbage. A can't skim those posts fast enough. Is there any meat here? Some serious pruning is needed.

SERP wise, wow. I must say it's a muddled mess. I was going to take a screenshot of some of this but I won't. I see the same site and page taking the first 6 results! The image search is bizarre to say the least also. Overall I've never seen such hodgepodge. Why now am I getting all the foreign (non english) sites? Frankly it seems a bit crazy. Never ever seen this type of thing before. Dare I say incredible. Again, not all searches of course but where I typically look, these are my observations. I've never had to click on "show english only" results as much as lately. Why is that?

The fact I see such a bizarre SERP does keep me optimistic. Certainly this can't be a proud circumstance for those responsible for the quality. I hold out hope that the washing machine type results is going to settle down into something better. A state of flux? Yes. It's because of the mess I see, there needs to be another shake up and from there I'm hoping for brighter days personally for my sites.

SnowMan68




msg:4514722
 4:40 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)


"these certain individuals" are real webmasters with real websites, real merchandise, and real families to support with real mortgages and other real commitments. Real professionals.

A true professional would have tried and at least listen to these old veterans and maybe he/she would learn something real instead of just feeding on google's PR crap...


Then maybe these "real webmasters" can start providing "real GOOD insight" instead of the same old thing over and over. After reading the same old thing for 3 to 4 months, a "real" person will get tired of it. True story.

I promise that I feel bad for anyone who is down, and even more for someone who is part of this community. I never said I didn't. That is why I try to provide good insight to what I see happening when I notice a change. Any insight I can provide to to other webmasters when I can, but I don't continue to repeat the same thing over and over again. That doesn't really help anyone and that was the point I am trying to make.

The actual definition of a "webmaster". Not some smacks playing up with word press templates/rss feeds and counting a dozen viewers per day (if they're lucky).


This last comment is especially funny if it's directed at me. You have no idea who I am or the businesses I run. Good try at taking a shot though :)

Wilburforce




msg:4514751
 5:55 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

Certainly this can't be a proud circumstance for those responsible for the quality.


One would think so, but I'm not sure how much of it they see. The number of possible search terms is effectively limitless, and if they are rolling out algorithm changes every couple of days they can't have time to look at much of a sample.

Couple that with their current geographical focus - unless I use a proxy I get results based on my ISP server's location - and what they actually see is probably not at all representative.

I may look at my own sector's main money term and think whoever came up with those results must have gone back to work before they had recovered from brain surgery, but the fact is that whoever came up with those results probably hasn't seen them: he has just seen what his code did to the spammers in high-street retail, and is patting himself on the back.

backdraft7




msg:4514762
 6:31 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

Geeze, besides all the crap being thrown our way with G, now we have to endure arrogant WebmasterWorld members who think they know it all.

seoskunk




msg:4514767
 7:08 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

have to endure arrogant WebmasterWorld members who think they know it all.


Nothing new there then!

gehrlekrona




msg:4514771
 7:36 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

I might be one of the "whiners" with nothing much to add and I am sorry for that. I think most of us whiners are at a loss, both financially and logically about what Google is doing. As for me nothing makes any sense. If I look at the SERPs I see search term that always gave sent me visitors, and it still does but it is like the visitors never reach my site or they don't select my site. I have checked SERPs from different source and they look almost the same. I have had theory that they have tons of "ready made-" SERPs for certain (suggests?) queries that they serve. SEO is dead. I could probably write a book now what not to do because everything I have done has made it worse. I have listened to everything here from backlinks to duplicates to anything you can think of but no change have helped. So where do we go from here?

seoskunk




msg:4514775
 7:46 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

@gehrlekrona, Was your site penalised?

gehrlekrona




msg:4514779
 7:47 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

@seoskunk, OH Yes.... Every darn iteration hit me...

seoskunk




msg:4514780
 7:55 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

@gehrlekrona LOL at least you still got your sense of humour.

I would love to see the site someday... but draw up an action plan.

1. Disavow bad links
2. Review your internal linking
3. Prune your site, Combine content and get rid of the not so good stuff.
4. Review your site structure
5. Get some good links in

Lastly don't be afraid of creating new content and new urls from some of the stuff you pruned.

gehrlekrona




msg:4514787
 8:15 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

@seoskunk, two things. First you got be quick because I don't know how long if will last. Second I used to be proud.. well a little at least, of the site but Google have told me if is crappy so I am not sure if is worth a visit. If you still dare take a look, I'll sticky you. The only (?)thing I haven't done yet is to get new links. I get new links every day from spammers to a (now) non existent blog which probably hurt me...

randle




msg:4514789
 8:24 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

The web is very fluid and what people like (trust) changes.


When it comes to search, what people like and trust follows what Google likes and trusts.

If your Joe searcher, what Google returns you just naturally assume are the best sites.

If your an internet marketer, you dont have any choice but to craft your sites in the manner Google wants them (or you dont get rewarded).

What you see in search today, including the very nature of the web sites found, is very different than it was 5 years ago, in both the organic and paid space, and its a lot more the result of Googles vision than popular reaction.

seoskunk




msg:4514791
 8:25 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

I am always up 4 a dare. Sticky me

Wilburforce




msg:4514793
 8:28 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

@seoskunk

1. Disavow bad links


How? I can do this in Bing's WMT, but not Google's.

Other than that, I agree: starting in May I applied what you recommend to my site (and removed or nofollowed a lot of outward links), which has restored position on a lot of search terms and brought referrals back to about 80% of pre-April level.

The main money term, however, went from #3 (it had been #1 for several years) to oblivion, and while it is now on page 3 (so has affected some recovery), I won't think of it as recovered until it gets to page 1 again, and I'm not sure it will. A couple of other terms are in still the same kind of state, too.

Also, some of the changes, while improving Google results, have had the opposite effect on Bing/Yahoo, Yandex, etc.

seoskunk




msg:4514797
 8:32 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

@Wilburforce

For disavow Google see this page

[googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk...]

Wilburforce




msg:4514803
 8:41 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

@seoskunk

Thanks! If they had introduced that before Penguin it might have saved a lot of people a lot of trouble.

diberry




msg:4514813
 9:31 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

The tension in regards to google and it's motives is really just what Matt Cutts has been marinating for some time now; the notion that a person who gets up in the morning and wants to pay their bills, feed their family, be productive in their chosen endeavor is somehow "bad" for trying to "manipulate" a search algorithm. Some here are all too comfortable in adding to that particularly heinous meme when a member has a ranking issue...

Maybe webmasterworld members could take a kinder tone towards other webmasters instead of adapting the us vs. them mentality fostered by industry mouthpieces.


Very, very well said. For all the anti-Google sentiment around here, there are also some posters who tend to dismiss anyone who's not thrilled with their Google traffic as a "whiner" or "spammer." Both views tend to be unsubstantiated, and neither are helpful for those who are just trying to figure out what Google is looking for and how to give it to them.

xcoder




msg:4514816
 9:47 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

You have no idea who I am or the businesses I run.


No i don't, and frankly don't really care. But one thing i will tell you, your posts/point of view sure show a lot of inexperience in web marketing and/or the "real" business world.

You have no idea who I AM am or the business I RUN.

Then maybe these "real webmasters" can start providing "real GOOD insight" instead of the same old thing over and over. After reading the same old thing for 3 to 4 months, a "real" person will get tired of it. True story.


There is no real insight and that's the whole point. We are all blind folded by google (hiding the keywords in the search referral is one example). Not realizing that this is a big part of the problem, scream "inexperience". They are hiding the evidence, making it extremely hard to prove.

You can not recover from this crap... that's the real "insight".

Shift through the thousands of posts made this year by hundred of affected webamsters. You will not find even one definite remedy except for "i'm out of panda" oopps "I'm pandlized again" a few days later.

The only true "insight" is that we are all being played for fools. The "mayhem" is random, and engineered to demote small businesses and make them spend on adwords as much as possible.

Not rocket science really...

[edited by: xcoder at 10:27 pm (utc) on Nov 1, 2012]

seoskunk




msg:4514817
 9:47 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

People aren't anti-google there just trying to make a living and to ignore the fact or call them "whiner" or "spammer" just adds insult to injury.

seoskunk




msg:4514818
 9:49 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

Oh it was a typo PMSL. See he said Rain

seoskunk




msg:4514820
 9:53 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

Not run

garyr_h




msg:4514829
 10:25 pm on Nov 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

Can we please get back to talking about SERPs?

Anyone seeing something different?

Martin Ice Web




msg:4514957
 8:13 am on Nov 2, 2012 (gmt 0)

@Typical Surfer,

one social point from me. I like they way you show the balance between "whiners" and "professionals". Both typs are adding value to this forum. With "whiners" ( and i am one of them, too ) I know in a fast way that something changed on goog, "professionals" try to examine the ne goog order.


What i am interste in, is, if someone did NOT change anything on his site after panda/penguin late april. How does this site do?

Jez123




msg:4514967
 9:21 am on Nov 2, 2012 (gmt 0)

I think most of us whiners are at a loss, both financially and logically about what Google is doing


Well said. I for one am in real danger of losing my house and business (the 2 are tied together to some extent) due to Penguin.

The tension in regards to google and it's motives is really just what Matt Cutts has been marinating for some time now; the notion that a person who gets up in the morning and wants to pay their bills, feed their family, be productive in their chosen endeavor is somehow "bad" for trying to "manipulate" a search algorithm. Some here are all too comfortable in adding to that particularly heinous meme when a member has a ranking issue...

Maybe webmasterworld members could take a kinder tone towards other webmasters instead of adapting the us vs. them mentality fostered by industry mouthpieces.


The infuriating thing with google is that people look at the sites who ARE doing well and emulate what they have done. Copy methods, backlinks etc and get penalised for that all the while, the site that they emulated sits pretty and does not get touched.

Google are not consistent and it forces people to bend the rules (and justify bending them due to the amount of sites that slip the net thinking google must be OK with this) to get their new, niceley made, decent content, better than the rest, sites into the field of vision.

Who wouldn't be frustrated? This is exactly what (I assume) has happened to me. Penguin has killed me but left the REAL spam behind. Not just content with leaving it behind, it now loves and rewards it even more. Level playing field? I think not.
.

[edited by: Robert_Charlton at 9:27 am (utc) on Nov 2, 2012]

petehall




msg:4514988
 10:55 am on Nov 2, 2012 (gmt 0)

@garyr_h I thought a Panda update had started here in the UK on Tuesday, however I now don't think so. I watched a couple of sites jump several pages, but nothing else has happened since then.

They are still sat in the same places now, so whatever changed on Tuesday has remained.

Typical that this whole year I have dreaded Panda updates and now that I want one to happen they have decided to skip a month!

Martin Ice Web




msg:4514989
 10:59 am on Nov 2, 2012 (gmt 0)

@garyr_h, since wednesday i see the old serps from for two weeks. All the referrers from blogs and forums are back but direct google traffic has been gone again.We gained about 40% the last two weeks in direct traffic, conversions, time on site very significant up, bounce rate down. Since wednesday the 40% are gone, time on site is very low, bounce rate is very high, conversions slide to Zero. I think there has not been an update but a pull back of what happend two weeks ago on that tuesday/wednesday, where we even donīt know what happened.
-i see a lot of junk
-very unrelated sites in serps
-brands, amazon ,ebay ( also haevy unrelated ) are back on page 1
-search for "searchterm" brings all but the searchterm
-also we are #1 for a kompetetive key we donīt get traffic, that wasnīt so the last two weeks.
-we get lot of foreign traffic and image search
-google shopping ads now in row with serps, oragnic listings are down the fold ( googles own algorithm would kill this site )

My opinion: all but good for the user but good for google income. We did not here many from Cutts in the last time, did we?

backdraft7




msg:4515021
 1:25 pm on Nov 2, 2012 (gmt 0)

As long as we're already off topic and October is over - regarding "Whiners vs. Professionals" - anyone arrogant enough to call valued situation reports "whining" and themselves a "professional" better start coming up with some solid "professional" explanations and facts that hold water before they discount our observations. No professional would omit conversion rates from their analysis. If they know it all, why are they even reading these forums?

Keep in mind, Google is a complete mystery BY DESIGN! The day we figure it out is they day they'll change it up again. All we can do is report what we observe. I for one find it of great value to know how algo updates are affecting the rest of the community. Speculation is fine, but don't pass it off as fact.

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