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A close look at what over optimization really is
brinked




msg:4442236
 1:51 am on Apr 18, 2012 (gmt 0)

I will not share my entire story about how I came into the SEO world, but lets just say that in order to have any type of success in this industry, I needed to overcome what turned out to be over optimization penalties.

Since then I have pretty much made a living at buying established sites that suffer from obvious on site over optimization, fixing them up and profiting big time. One site I paid $12,000 for and within 2 weeks it was recovered, making a good $400-$600/day. Thats what type of money people can be missing out on with a simple over optimization penalty.

But what exactly is over optimization? More importantly, what is Google's latest update all about? While I do not have the answer to everyone's questions, I have a lot of experience with over optimization and I think I might just be the most qualified person in the world when dealing with this type of penalty.

I know a lot of people feel vulnerable right now and that is why I am making this post. Looking over on the google help forums, many of the issues I am seeing have blatant over optimization problems on site. One lady had a site that offered free widgets for kids. How do I know this? When I went to her site, "free widgets for kids" was in the domain name, the page title, and every other sentence on the home page. I did not dig any deeper in her site and I am not saying this is the exact cause for her punishment, but I am pretty sure it is. If you read her content, it sounds spammy and unprofessional and I have no idea how this site managed to elude over optimization penalties earlier.

In any case, here is a list of over optimization factors. Some are tried and proven, others are semi proven and some others are just strong theories.


1. Keyword/phrase over usage. Known by seo experts as keyword stuffing. This is also the most commong form of over optimization and also the easiest to recover from. When you are trying to rank for a specific phrase, you want google to find that term. Many webmasters will do this by placing the same term in the page title, url's, meta tags, body text, anchor text, header tags etc etc. It is important NOT to do this. Google will know what the subject of your site is without having to repeat the same phrase over and over. That just gives a poor user experience. Not only that, google will know you're trying to game the system. You could possibly overcome this by strong content and a good backlink profile, but it will likely still hold you back in some way or another.

2. Redirects. I seen a major competitor just lose its number 1 position after holding it steady for 3 years. This site was not only number 1 for this industry, but its also one of the top 500 most popular websites in the USA. It is a huge huge brand and it has just dropped to position #7 after being #1 for 3 years. One thing I noticed about them is they redirect several domains to their main site and they have bought out competitors over the years and just redirected them to their main site. Be careful not to redirect too many sites to your main business, and if you do, make sure to follow recommended procedure as offered by google.

3. Same/similar anchor in back links. This is an oldy but a goody. The best backlink profile is a well rounded, diverse and natural looking profile that has links coming from many types of venues. If all of your links come from blogs, that looks pretty artificial, what are the odds that all of the sites linking to you all happen to be blogs? Top that off with if these blogs link to lots of other unrelated sites, it wont take google's algo too long to detect that. Aggressive reciprocal links can hurt you as well.

4. Same Niche same server - This one I truly believe in, or it could be me just being paranoid. I always believed that having 2 websites on the same server in the same or similar industries will cause 1 or both of them to be punished. For this reason, I leave no trail for google to connect any 2 of my sites together unless they are completely unrelated. I make sure to have different whois info, I never use GA, adsense or any other means for google to connect two similar sites. I have no concrete proof of this one, but its something I feel strongly about.

5. Doorway/thin affiliate - Is the main goal of your site to get people to another site? Then google may just decide to drop your site and favor the source site since that would provide a better user experience. Counter this by offering something truly unique.

6. Link schemes/cheap backlink packages - Quite simply, dont waste your time. This does more harm than good and even if you do get a good ranking fast, it will fade soon enough. Any back link package is truly ridiculous and you are playing with fire. If you see any package that is offering you more than 100 links for less than $10, you should stay far far away. it also goes unmentioned you should stay away from ANY back link building schemes that include gaining mass amounts of backlinks in a short period of time. Links are votes and should be earned.

This list was rushed and not proof read so take it as it is. I hope this insight can help some people. These are just the 6 most common factors that I see webmasters suffering from. Best of luck.

 

gouri




msg:4499082
 2:55 am on Sep 24, 2012 (gmt 0)

@Zivush,

Thanks for the explanation and the link.

I am seeing that some webpages that are over optimized for a particular keyword phrase in the way brinked described in No. 1 in the OP are ranking for that phrase, but I think that the affect of the over optimization is for keywords on pages that the over optimized page links to and maybe some overall affect on the site.

Have you seen this or has the affect of on site over optimization that you have seen been only for the keyword phrase that is over optimzed?

Zivush




msg:4499116
 5:06 am on Sep 24, 2012 (gmt 0)

I have never stuffed keywords (repeated the same KW) on purpose, so I canít tell but people guess that -
1. Since Panda and Penguin, a site ranking is taken as a whole. Poor/shallow pages might have a negative ranking impact on the other siteís sections (if they are linked).
2. Before Panda and Penguin, strong pages had a positive ranking impact on the other siteís sections (if they are linked).

Thatís why so many affected sites deleted/merged pages and have taken a close look at quality, including over-optimization.
You never know how Google measures page quality as you donít have their tools. For them, itís a math science, while for us, it is subjective.

gouri




msg:4505719
 2:54 am on Oct 9, 2012 (gmt 0)

On a page of a site that I am working on, the meta description is very similar to the first paragraph of the body text.

Could this be considered duplicate content and be affected by Panda?

Also, since the meta description and first paragraph contain keywords that the site is trying to rank for (not this particular page, but another one), could this be considered over optimization as well and be affected by Penguin?

This page also has a link in the body text (anchor text is the url) to another page on the site and that page is not getting a lot of traffic. Could the similarity between the meta description and the first paragraph of the body text of the page that is linking to it be the reason for this?

The keywords that are in the meta description and the first paragraph of the body text are keywords that the page that it has a link to is trying to rank for.

I would appreciate your thoughts.

tedster




msg:4505723
 3:14 am on Oct 9, 2012 (gmt 0)

Could this be considered duplicate content and be affected by Panda?

No - duplicate content means two different URLs contain substantially the same content. Your question is about "duplication" in two places on the same URL.

It is very common for a meta description to be substantially the same as copy somewhere in the body. In some automated CMS systems, the meta description just picks up the first sentence (or the first N characters) verbatim.

Natedog




msg:4505850
 9:05 am on Oct 9, 2012 (gmt 0)

I am looking after a website with an EMD for the keyword too. the site sat on the 1st page of google for a while but then drop of the face of the planet! after a while it came back but then dropped again. I'm Positive over optimization is not the cause for the rank loss, but puzzled why it will fluctuate like that?

Only a beginner in the dark arts of SEO and still learning here

gouri




msg:4506559
 4:40 pm on Oct 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

I have done the following on a website because I thought that it would help my visitors but now I think that it might be over optimization.

I would really appreciate your opinions regarding if the following could be seen as over optimization.

(1) On several pages of the site, I have done the following a couple of times on the page:

<h2>Tips to Build Widgets</h2>

Paragraph all in bold describing the types of tips that are provided. The paragraph contains keyword phrases and related keyword phrases that the page and the site are targeting.

Bullet point list of the tips. Each bullet point is a couple of sentences and the first sentence is in bold.

So it is h2, paragraph in bold, bullet points several times on a page on several pages.

Could the bold paragraphs be seen as over optimization?

(2) On pages with images, the paragraphs that describe the images (the paragraphs are generally before the images) are in bold and they contain keyword phrases and related keyword phrases that the page and site are trying to rank for. On some of the pages, the first paragraph in the body text is among the ones in bold.

Could the bold paragraphs be seen as over optimization?

(3) On a couple of pages, I have the following:

<h2><strong>Text here</strong></h2>

and keyword phrases or related keyword phrases that the page is trying to rank for are among the text in the h2 tag.

Could the addition of the strong tag inside the h2 tag be seen as over optimization?

I would appreciate your thoughts on whether you think that I am over optimizing in the 3 examples above. It would help me a lot.

Zivush




msg:4507879
 5:34 am on Oct 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

Sorry I missed your post,
I think, the reason you haven't received answers from anyone is because it's controversial.
(1) + (2): Bolding a paragraph to highlight a section of your content is a good practice IF you want to regard this section with high importance over other paragraphs of the content.
It's OK.
However, look at it from a machine side (Search Engines algorithm), when doing so (systematically), the content become unbalanced. The algo may contain some code to protect itself from tricking it against such content structure, especially when it contains targeted keywords in bold. It becomes a risk. They may call it over-optimization or suspicious content or whatever.

I'd rather treat it this way: If the paragraph can live without making it bold, don't put it in bold.

(3): It is also true in case # (3). Why do you need to tag <h2><strong>Text here</strong></h2> instead of <h2>Text here</h2>?
Don't let the algo push the wrong button and just try to be on the safe side :-)

P.S. -
A site with too many similar pages may be categorized by SE as machine-made site (an auto-content site).
Such sites are the target of Panda.
Therefore, try to structure each page slightly different from the rest.
Hope I helped.

Robert Charlton




msg:4507887
 7:05 am on Oct 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

Could the bold paragraphs be seen as over optimization?

gouri - Time for a very brief note only... but all the things you describe, bold text, the <strong>, etc, are all intended for emphasis. The headings... h1, h2, etc, are structural elements, essentially to emphasize the divisions in a hierarchical structure.

When you emphasize everything, though, there is no longer any differentiation. Ultimately nothing is emphasized because it's all the same. This is probably very bad for your users, too. It's like having them confront a page that's written all in capital letters.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're doing, but it sounds offhand like you've gone wa-a-ay over the top. I can't say whether any of these things are actually hurting you, as Google may be ignoring these signals entirely since so many people misuse them. That said, your approach needs to be adjusted. What you're describing sounds like a late-1990s spammer's mindset.

diberry




msg:4507953
 2:34 pm on Oct 14, 2012 (gmt 0)

What Robert Charlton said.

In any case, it is tricky to know how to employ emphasis without falling afoul of the algo. From a user's perspective, if headers and bold font make it easy to scan the article and get just the info you need, then you've done a great job. If the headers and bold font, however, are kind of distracting or confusing, then tone them down.

That said, unfortunately there's no way to be sure how the algo will read it. I remain convinced that Google believes *wrongly* that Penguin and Panda can tell the academic and appropriate use of keywords/headers/etc. from a spammy use of the same.

I've recently noticed some top websites NOT putting keywords in bold or header print, so maybe that's the solution. Maybe you need something like this:

Title: How to trim widgets with a spork

Header 1: It's not what you think

Paragraph explaining that you use the spork in a manner different than the user probably expected.

Bullet 1: {bold}Working The Tableware.{/bold} You can use your spork to blah blah blah...

See how the word "spork" is never in bold or header, but just regular text? I have no idea how that works for targeting keywords, but since targeting keywords=SEO and Google seems to be on the warpath against any form of SEO, maybe this is the new right way to go about things? Dunno, it's just something I've been seeing.

gouri




msg:4508069
 3:03 am on Oct 15, 2012 (gmt 0)

I wanted to say thanks to all of you for your suggestions. They are very helpful.

@Zivush,

If the paragraph can live without making it bold, don't put it in bold.

That's good advice. I am going to look over the bold paragraphs and see which ones I can make regular text.

Don't let the algo push the wrong button and just try to be on the safe side :-)

I think that I'll write the h2 tags without the strong tag.

@Robert_Charlton,

When you emphasize everything, though, there is no longer any differentiation. Ultimately nothing is emphasized because it's all the same. This is probably very bad for your users, too. It's like having them confront a page that's written all in capital letters.

That's a great comparison.

That said, your approach needs to be adjusted. What you're describing sounds like a late-1990s spammer's mindset.

By bolding the whole paragraph, I am probably overdoing it and this is probably not helping my visitors as much as I would like it to.

@diberry,

Title: How to trim widgets with a spork

Header 1: It's not what you think

Paragraph explaining that you use the spork in a manner different than the user probably expected.

Bullet 1: {bold}Working The Tableware.{/bold} You can use your spork to blah blah blah...

This is a good format. I think that I'll try this. Thanks.

Can you guys tell how much of an impact the three things that I mentioned can have on a website? Even though it wasn't my intention, I might have over optimized a lot.

tedster




msg:4508077
 5:39 am on Oct 15, 2012 (gmt 0)

The minus 950 penalty [webmasterworld.com] was the first of many over-optimization efforts from Google, back in 2007. Matt Cutts once described it something like this: If you're the kind of webmaster who hangs out at SEO forums and does everything you read about, this penalty might affect you.

Here's the way things seem to be with Google today. The things that we webmasters can control directly only take us part of the way. If we only try to "do SEO" - creating all the technical signals that we've heard about over and over, and we do that for a site without also directly addressing things like content quality, user experience etc - then at some point we cross the line and lose the benefit of the technical signals that we originally tried to send.

Here's the way I see it: most Google users don't care which website does the best SEO. They just want a really good answer for their search query, and that's the way I see Google aiming. They don't always hit their intended target, that's for sure, but they are getting better at it.

Zivush




msg:4508080
 6:18 am on Oct 15, 2012 (gmt 0)

I'll try to sum it up my way.
Believe it or not, you can make a top SEO optimized site and .. fail!
Yet, you can make any SEO mistake, including over/under optimization, and Ö succeed. Because it all about quality and the readers reaction:
If they love your site, Google will notice that and reward it.
If they donít, youíre screwed no matter what you do.
Therefore, watch closely the user engagement and work hard to increase the percentage of returning/direct/referral visitors, by making your site well-written and well presented.

Natedog




msg:4508086
 8:17 am on Oct 15, 2012 (gmt 0)

All comments and posts have been really helpful here

Can't thank you guys enough.. WebmasterWorld great forum..

gouri




msg:4508445
 1:35 pm on Oct 16, 2012 (gmt 0)

If I reduce the amount of bolding that I have in some of the areas where I have too much bolding, can you tell me how long it may take to see the effects of those changes?

diberry




msg:4508485
 4:35 pm on Oct 16, 2012 (gmt 0)

Gouri, I don't think ANYONE is sure how long for changes to help in the post Penguin environment. One person around here who knows much more than I suggested a couple of months, but cautioned that it's all an educated guess with these new algos.

gouri




msg:4508561
 7:50 pm on Oct 16, 2012 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the response.

Do you think that there needs to be a Panda or Penguin run to see the effects of reduced bolding?

diberry




msg:4508566
 8:17 pm on Oct 16, 2012 (gmt 0)

If it was Penguin, then yes, I suspect there will be a Penguin update before anyone recovers from Penguin. As far as I know, no one's saying they have yet (and there hasn't been an update). As for Panda, it's probably the same, but it usually updates within a month or so.

storeowner




msg:4508663
 11:00 pm on Oct 16, 2012 (gmt 0)

Hi All,

My question concerns Brinked's #1 point of Keyword over usage.

I have an ecommerce site (hosted in US) with 7000+ products and each product has its own page and titles. I only carry two types of these products I'll call Type1 and Type2. So, naturally I would insert the words "Type1" or "Type2" into the titles to help prevent visitors from buying the wrong type.

With thousands of titles with the words "Type1" or "Type2", is this considered keyword stuffing?

A side note, when listing my products I have the main on-page title (H1) and meta title. The meta titles appear in the serps. But both of these titles are exactly the same.

Zivush




msg:4508756
 5:23 am on Oct 17, 2012 (gmt 0)

Using too many similar titles for pages, looks spammy. How do you expect them know/decide which page to send traffic to? So, in this case, they (Google) drop it all together.

KW Type1 and KW Type2

I have seen similar title structure in one high traffic sites that was heavily impacted by Penguin (lost ~50%). They used KW sample1 and KW sample1. It seems the owners have already changed these titles along other changes. Now, they put KW + [unique description] for each page's title to make it different from the rest.

on-page title (H1) and meta title .. both of these titles are exactly the same.

I think, this is not an issue. Many websites/blogs work exactly the same. Meaning H1 = Title tag.

You may want to change only the title tag for each page and leave the KW-type# as is, in order to give 'more strength' to the KW.

storeowner




msg:4508839
 10:58 am on Oct 17, 2012 (gmt 0)

Thanks for replying Zivush.

Actually all the titles are quite differnet except the words "Type1" or "Type2" are inserted into the titles, like so:

Descriptive Title (Type1)
Another very Good Title Here (Type2)

Zivush




msg:4509021
 6:26 pm on Oct 17, 2012 (gmt 0)

Now I get you.
Keep in mind that you work in front of a software (G crawler/algo). Probably your popular KW is "type" located in the most important tag, which is the title tag. [Look in WMT - optimization/keyword in the content and it's importance. See if "type" is listed there]
You may consider doing something like this:
Title tag: Descriptive Title
H1: Descriptive Title (Type1)

Title tag: Another very Good Title Here
H1: Another very Good Title Here (Type2)

gouri




msg:4509178
 3:49 am on Oct 18, 2012 (gmt 0)

On pages that contain images on a website, I have several paragraphs in the body text that are in bold and have in them keyword phrases and related keyword phrases that the page and site are trying to rank for.

Although it wasn't my intention, when I look at some of these paragraphs now, I think that it may appear that there is keyword stuffing in them.

So I have paragraphs that are both in bold and keyword stuffed.

I feel that this is being seen as over optimization. I can go ahead and change the bold text to regular text, but I will be working on the content later on.

I wanted to ask you guys if you think that making the change from bold text to plain text can help me even if all the over optimization is not addressed (The bold text would be addressed, but the keyword stuffing wouldn't be.).

gouri




msg:4509646
 3:06 am on Oct 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

In addition to what I have written in the above post, I also wanted to mention that the alt text for the images on the pages that I am referring to contain related keywords and when I combine that with the keyword phrases and related keyword phrases in the paragraphs on the pages, I might have a high keyword density (this is in addition to the keyword stuffing issues mentioned in the post above this one).

I wanted to ask if you think that I am facing keyword stuffing issues and could this also be over optimization?

tedster




msg:4509652
 3:37 am on Oct 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

From everything you've described I'd say yes - this all sounds like over-optimization to me.

I doubt that just changing bold text to plain text would make much difference on its own. And don't worry about some keyword density percentage, either. Just make it read naturally and let go of any search for "the formula". SEO is more and more of an art, rather than a science.

Zivush




msg:4509743
 8:32 am on Oct 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Bolding a paragraphs where you stuffed too many keywords is as "telling Google where to hunt you".
As tedser advised, addressing only the bold text issue would be like giving an headache pill for a dying patient.
The main problem is probably paragraphs that are badly written.

Tonearm




msg:4510816
 1:55 pm on Oct 22, 2012 (gmt 0)

You may consider doing something like this:
Title tag: Descriptive Title
H1: Descriptive Title (Type1)

Title tag: Another very Good Title Here
H1: Another very Good Title Here (Type2)

I'd like to do the reverse of this and remove keywords from my H1 only, not from my title tag because I want searchers to get as much pertinent info about the page as possible in order to entice a click. Should that work well?

I did a round of deoptimization a little over 3 months ago by greatly reducing the repetition of the main keyword on each page. Google seemed to react quite positively. I've read that Google watches for site changes and will penalize you if you make too many. Has enough time passed so that it's OK to make more changes?

gouri




msg:4510880
 4:18 pm on Oct 22, 2012 (gmt 0)

I did a round of deoptimization a little over 3 months ago by greatly reducing the repetition of the main keyword on each page.

@Tonearm,

Can you tell me where on the page you deoptimized? Body text, heading tags? Other areas?

Also, did you replace the main keyword with a related word?

Tonearm




msg:4511300
 2:15 pm on Oct 23, 2012 (gmt 0)

I think I both reduced duplication amongst my H1, title, and meta descriptions tags, and deoptimized by removing each page's main keyword from regular text and anchor text on the page.

gouri




msg:4511419
 7:48 pm on Oct 23, 2012 (gmt 0)

I had a couple of questions about markup and the possible over optimization that it could lead to, and I was hoping that you guys could help me with this.

On several pages of a website, I have the following in the body section of the HTML source code:

h1 tag (in its own block) and then Chapter 1, body text, link to another page in the body text (Chapter 1, the body text, and the link are in the body text block, separate from the block that the h1 is in)

I am thinking of coding this in the following way:

<h1>Build a Great Widget</h1>
<h4>Chapter 1</h4>
<p>Text here</p>
<p>Text here</p>
<p>Text here</p>
<h4><a href>Building Red Metal Widgets</a></h4> (There is a link to another page within the h4 tag)

(1) Would it be ok to do the above or should I use span tags where I have the h4 tags?

In the h4 tag at the top, I donít have keyword phrases that I want the page to rank for, but in the h4 tag at the bottom, the link within it is often a keyword phrase that I want the page that it links to to rank for. Could having a link with keyword phrases within an h4 tag be over optimization? Also, I have heard that it is okay to put a link in a heading tag but can you tell me if it is okay to do this?

(2) If using the h4 tags is not over optimization, would there be some benefit of using h4 tags instead of the span tags?

(3) If using the h4 tags is over optimization, can I perhaps use the h4 tag at the top and at the bottom, where I have the link with the keyword phrase, use the span tag instead of the h4?

(4) Is it ok to use an h4 tag after an h1 and not have h2 and h3 tags on the page? h2 and h3 tags, I think, are good to use for sections of a page, but when a page only has paragraphs and you are saying something like Chapter 1, it is better to use an h4.

On other pages of the site, I would like to make the markup in the following way:

<h1>Build a Cool Widget</h1>
<h4>Chapter 2</h4>
<p>Text here</p>
<h2>New Methods<h2>
<p>Text here</p>
<h2> Older Methods</h2>
<p>Text here</p>
<h4><a href>Building Smooth Green Widgets</a></h4> (There is a link to another page within the h4 tag)

(1) When I did some research on the internet, I mostly read that heading tags should be in order. Would it be okay to have the h4 tag before the h2 tags?

Another thing that I had a question about is the signature. I am thinking of coding my signature on the contact page in the following way:

<h4>
Name
www.buildinggreatwidgets.tld (in link form and there are keywords in the domain. The domain is also in link form in the footer of the website.)
name@buildinggreatwidgets.tld (in link form and there are keywords in the domain name portion of the address)
</h4>

(1) Could I put my signature in an h4 tag or would this cause over optimization? Should I use a span tag instead?

(2) If putting the signature in an h4 tag is not over optimization, is it still better practice to use span tags for it?

I know that I have asked a lot of questions, but I want to code my pages properly and donít want to over optimize.

I would really appreciate your responses.

MrSavage




msg:4511585
 8:31 am on Oct 24, 2012 (gmt 0)

@brinked, I've been around the forums for a good number of years and read about and received incredible insight, wisdom and guidance. I mean no disrespect to the many valuable contributors here, but your thread here has to be for me, the greatest thing I've ever read here. You've struck a chord with me personally.

Short story. I've had the many ups and downs over the years. Many devastating days that's for sure. This latest spell, the end of September has essentially been the dagger in my heart. I won't get dramatic but on a scale of 1-10, August was a 12 for achievements personally. Today I can say what I have is 1 on that same scale. Completely torched and smashed to bits. I'm talking about a best Adsense day of XXX in late 2011 and 2012, down to an average now of X, with an absurd daily total just this past week. Making in one day what I might make in 30 minutes in 2011. It's more than just Adsense though, it's everything.

So I've pretty much been without hope all this month until I read this thread. I'm late to this discussion! The point is that what you've said has provided plenty of hope to me lately. I have a lot of pride in what I do and when the entire castle made of sand crumbles into the sea, it makes me question the time I've invested in all this.

I have no idea if you're checking into this thread still. I will mention a couple areas which haven't been discussed. I would be grateful for any insight. I don't beg but I bow to wisdom!

In your opinion, when you have named a url with the keyword phrase, is it the kiss of death to have this same phrase or virtually the same keyword phrase in the title? Is the url really enough. In other words, is there a belief that having the keyword phrase in the url is enough information for Google to digest your page? So if you have blue-widget-breakfast.htm, having a page title as Best Blue Widget Breakfast is risky? In the same way an EMD, if it's widgetbreakfast dot com, starting your homepage as Widget Breakfast is a no no?

Regarding images. Does image naming, image alt tags, and image folders and keyword usage play an important role in over optimization? If I used keywords in the folder holding the images and name the image according to what it is (which is most times the keywords of the page) and then add an alt tag with conservative keyword mention, is this a kiss of death? I'm just wondering to what extent you've tinkered with images on sites that suffered over optimization penalties. For myself, going with the advice of naming your images clearly etc, it could be a LOT of work to rename or change structures like moving images from a folder such as blue-widgets-images to simply images folder. Am I alone in naming an image blue widgets and placing it in a folder named blue-widgets-images?

This thread has provided me with a real boost of hope and brinked you're the reason for that. I have a few sites which I can really work over here because frankly they are dead dead dead. There is zero risk in me reducing some elements on these sites and seeing what happens.

I should also mention here that it's only been the past couple of weeks when I read about looking at the end of Google search results and see if you're site is there. If there is a contest for who has the most there, I may be a clear winner. It's been a HUGE eye opener for me. No idea. I never understood this -50 or -950 or whatever those things meant. The bottom line is what I've done is bad in a lot of instance. My work is literally sitting at the bottom of the ocean. That's my advice to others. Not sure what's going on? Start on the last page of search results and see what you find. In a lot of ways I've been very very stupid.

Thanks for this thread.

bekyed




msg:4511607
 9:12 am on Oct 24, 2012 (gmt 0)

Hi Brinked.

Our website is 10 years old has the keyword in the domain and we have completely tanked to page 5 from no1 position and lost around 80% of traffic from Google.

I sent in a request to Google who came with 'no spam actions found'

I have de-optimised the website by removing the search term from the drop downs and the site has dropped lower now.

The keyword is still in the heading 1, but no longer in the title.

I have also noticed that no sites in our niche appear in the top 20 with the main keyword in the domain.

My next move is to remove the keyword from the page completely as the domain holds the strength.

Ironically we are no1 in Bing for most terms.

Can anyone suggest more as I am completely lost.

Bek.

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