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Google PANDA rolls out WorldWide
incrediBILL




msg:4295470
 4:31 pm on Apr 11, 2011 (gmt 0)

Today, for the first time, after checking daily, I can now see US Panda results on Google properties worldwide including but not limited to: .co.uk, .ca, .co.in, .com.au, .fr, .de, .se, etc.

Congratulations, it's no longer speculation if you have Panda, it's quite visibly there.

 

Swanson




msg:4295877
 12:05 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

Just for clarification - in travel there is a company called "fusepump" that scrapes their merchant sites to give you a datafeed as an affiliate.

The merchant allows it and it is distributed to affiliates - but it is duplicate content.

That is the sort of thing I mean - how the heck is scraping lastminute.com authorised by them the same as scraping sites for backlinks?

Swanson




msg:4295879
 12:09 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

Leosghost, I am only defending stuff against me - I only made a simple post about how duplicate content was working against unique. I thought my sample size would give help to people.

It wasn't me attacking someone else about how I was a spammer or something. How is it fair to stand up for yourself and then get lumped together with the protagonist - that can't be right surely the guy having a go at the one should be removed not both?

crobb305




msg:4295880
 12:12 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

We both probably misunderstood each other, but the term "scraping" is a sensitive issue right now. This isn't a competition. Or it shouldn't be, so let's get back to the discussion...

[edited by: crobb305 at 12:26 am (utc) on Apr 12, 2011]

kd454




msg:4295882
 12:16 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

Unless something happens very soon to change my opinion, Google no longer deserves respect. And for every site they knock down, we'll come back with 2 more. We'll build 'em quick & dirty.

It's all about survival now ~ the war is on.


@Reno

I am thinking the same thing, I am going to start doing some burn and churn myself. Going to start thinking "disposable" sites, instead of long term.

If they want a game, I am all in.

[edited by: kd454 at 12:20 am (utc) on Apr 12, 2011]

crobb305




msg:4295884
 12:19 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

Swanson, I offer my apologies for getting upset about the scraping issue. It's a sensitive subject. You clarified what you meant.

Back to Panda, I see COMPLETELY different results on Google India. Nothing like what I see on .es, se, de, nz, etc

dataguy




msg:4295885
 12:19 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

If they want a game, I am all in.


I can't help but think the same. Game on.

Swanson




msg:4295886
 12:23 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

crobb305, Ok fair points on that - I was referring to your comments and being flippant in reference to yours. I wasn't making comments to the general board I was being defensive about your comments that you made about me scraping etc.

I apologise for coming across like that.

My observation on the current changes is that duplicate content can outrank unique content. Keyword domains also hold a lot of weight.

Our unique content branded sites have tanked and keyword domains with content that is duplicate from their merchants do just fine.

sahm




msg:4295887
 12:25 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

I was almost afraid to look, haven't checked my rankings since this morning. I did not lose any traffic from Panda, but I was replaced by ehow for all of my good long-tail traffic. Where I was previously #1, they were not only #1, but #2, #3, and I was lucky to be #5. This change dropped my income by about 25% although overall traffic was about the same.

Just checked my positions, and for the terms I watch the most I am now on average #1 and #2 and outranking ehow again! My pages that are ranking well are not new either, most are at least 5 years old. Ehow is still in the top 10 and so is Yahoo Answers and Wiki Answers, we have just been shuffled around again, with my site ranking above them in most cases.

I have been deleting thin pages on my site during the past month. I used to have a very large message forum that no one uses now. It was about 2/3 the pages of my entire site. I have been deleting all those pages and taking useful content from them to create new articles. Several of these new articles are actually ranking in the top 10 already.

I have also been very active on Facebook and Twitter the past couple of months. Figure it can't hurt anything!

olias




msg:4295889
 12:26 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

Not that many changes overall in my niche.

Several small players, myself included have lost 10-20 places on manys SERPs and in general the big players have stayed where they were - and filled up the spaces vacated by the few that dropped. My traffic is down around 35% and the gains look to be spread fairly evenly across many sites that will not notice a difference.

I did at least get a smile when I found one new site that has been around since 2005 and had never been on my radar before. It hit top spot in one of the first test searches I tried, looked at it and it appeared to have almost no content. Had a look at the source and found loads of stuff with a class of "hide", when I examined the CSS found that there was a load of nonsense with an offset of -1000px.

Brilliant. Thanks for the quality update G!

incrediBILL




msg:4295891
 12:32 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

...somewhere in Mtn. View California we hear the furious clicking of a keyboard and in the spam dept. of Google Inc.

Code being reviewed:


// Complex Panda algo update so mind blowing complex...
if( content_scraper() || thin_content() || eHow() || content_farm() ) {
PromoteContent();
} else {
GiveANastyPandaPenalty();
}



... suddenly a shrill little mousy voice cries out...

"Um, Matt? I think I found the bug... Shouldn't this code say if NOT content scraper AND NOT thin content AND NOT eHow AND NOT content farm?"

... reviewing minor "bug fix" to panda ...



// Complex Panda algo update so mind blowing complex...
if( !content_scraper() && !thin_content() && !eHow() && !content_farm() ) {
PromoteContent();
} else {
GiveANastyPandaPenalty();
}



There, now THAT's a Panda update!

trying to lighten up the mood a bit

crobb305




msg:4295894
 12:49 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

The merchant allows it and it is distributed to affiliates - but it is duplicate content.


Swanson, I think the scraper update in January went awry. I mentioned on another thread that some freshly scraped copies of my articles (over 5 years old) were suddenly outranking my original. I kind of wish they would get one task right before they move on to the next one. Your situation is definitely an interesting case study, as you said.

[edited by: crobb305 at 12:54 am (utc) on Apr 12, 2011]

jmccormac




msg:4295895
 12:51 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

So scary it could be true. :) There is a possibility (after reading incrediBILL's post on the Larry Page thread) that Google has attracted the institutionalised mindset of the type that would bother getting a PhD rather than the innovator/inventor type mindset and this Panda update is the result.

I don't know yet if Google has jumped the shark with the Panda update but I do think that Bing and others have a marvellous opportunity to take market share away from Google. Google has committed the cardinal sin of search engines - it has pissed off the webmasters. This update may see webmasters moving towards optimising for Bing rather than Google and may have turned largely passive webmasters into active opponents.

Regards...jmcc

Leosghost




msg:4295899
 1:07 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

suddenly a shrill little mousy voice cries out...

I thought Eric had moved on ? ;-))

nice post Bill..;-) just the thing needed :-)

Reno




msg:4295900
 1:08 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

Google has committed the cardinal sin of search engines - it has pissed off the webmasters. This update may see webmasters moving towards optimising for Bing rather than Google

To be honest, I don't think they'd care one way or the other. But if many thousands of webmasters remove AdSense and substitute "BingSense", believe me, we'll get their attention.

.....................

crobb305




msg:4295905
 1:28 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

But if many thousands of webmasters remove AdSense and substitute "BingSense", believe me, we'll get their attention.


That's really what I have expected to happen since day 1. They told us to take a close look at our ad/content ratio, and that's what we're doing. The problem is, as people create new content or improve existing content, they aren't (as of yet) seeing any ranking improvement. So, the next rational course of action is to start removing ad units. Many of these sites that got hit are still doing well in Yahoo/Bing, so it seems to me that Google will ultimately lose on the Adsense revenue if they don't start letting some re-rankings take place. Webmasters are getting impatient. On the otherhand, E-how sits squarely in the top 5 for just about every possible query, and they run Adsense, so it's possible that it all comes out in the wash.

OldIrish




msg:4295908
 1:29 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

With Bing copying Google's results and in turn feeding those copied results to Yahoo, that means in a couple of weeks Panda should be in full swing across all three search engines. Can't wait for my 40% traffic loss to turn into an 85% loss.

I guess this is the memo that small content publishers are no longer welcome at the watering hole.

I was just over at the largest black hat SEO forum to see what those people are saying and most are reporting traffic gains. Check that out for yourself people, it's actually true.

crobb305




msg:4295910
 1:36 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

Google has committed the cardinal sin of search engines - it has pissed off the webmasters.

I just saw an interesting article on Mashable a few minutes ago showing projections of Bing overtaking Google in 2012. With thousands of pissed off webmasters, and E-How dominated SERPS, this trend could accelerate. I hope Google makes some changes, quickly. Panda was just too much all at once.

Leosghost




msg:4295918
 2:07 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

To be honest, I don't think they'd care one way or the other. But if many thousands of webmasters remove AdSense and substitute "BingSense", believe me, we'll get their attention.


bing or Y would have to expand instantly to outside the USA with their programs in order to get any International traction in any backlash ..the reactions so far seen in the USA haven't apparently given G cause to massively rethink ..although they may be tweaking round the edges ( but that may be part of a plan and not related to any webmaster feedback at all )..bing and Y missed the opportunity to influence webmasters outside the USA when they both spent years ignoring us as publishers, except if one has truly massive volume and a direct line to their inventory via server.

A little or reduced revenue from G is better than a slammed door ( "go away you are not based in the USA" ) from Bing and Y ..will, I'm sure be the attitude of webmasters who depend on contextual advertising revenue , even if they have been hit ..when they think about it after the shock has worn off...and SEOing for bing ?

G has near total control of the surfers eyeballs outside of the USA with the exception of the far east.

SEOing for bing and not G would be commercial suicide outside the USA and or the far east unless the sites don't need traffic.

Asia_Expat




msg:4295919
 2:09 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

I take back my previous post... my rankings indeed 'appear' to be tanking...

Now, I've never actively sought links, I just let them come naturally.
I've never copied content... it's all my own work.
I've never played with grey-hat tricks, don't interlink, or do anything 'strategic'... it's all natural.
Where I've been in any doubt, I'll check Google's guidelines, and respect them

What is my reward?... tanking SERP positions it seems. Pffffffft.

HuskyPup




msg:4295920
 2:17 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

If they want a game, I am all in.


Trust me on this, IF you do not know what the game is and how it is done to the rules, and this includes Yahoo!/Bing/whatever...you will lose!

Reno




msg:4295922
 2:27 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

you will lose!

The key I think, is to not care. That is a big part of my problem and perhaps others as well ~ we put our hearts and souls into our sites and feel personally betrayed because we followed the guidelines and have been slapped down by others who play loose & fast with the rules ~ apparently with Google's blessings.

So if I go the route of lots of affilate-database type sites ~ and I very well may after Panda ~ then it will be with the understanding of making some money, then moving on. Get in, get out: "Wham bam, thank ya' ma'am".

...........................

Leosghost




msg:4295926
 2:36 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

Just noticed ehow sliding slightly in France lost their number 1 spots to youtube ( previous number 2 )..ehow now at number 4 ( I moved up to the number 2 ) test run on what is, for me, one of many "yardstick" queries in English. run on Google dot com..

same test on Google.fr ehow dropped to #2 ..youtube moved to number 1 ..( I am number 3 ) ..

note both of the sites above me have UGC ..I dont ..some of those below me do ..but not many , and not much.

another 7 letter KW test English word that French use from France via G.com..results of about 400,000,000 top site is a french forum , second is me ( English site version ) third is ehow English language page.

Same query on G.fr ..same sequence ..except that my French language page takes the place of my English language one ....

running this test at 5 minute intervals ..the first test group results stay as they were ..the second group I appear to yo-yo around the top slot with the french forum , I get #1 more than they do ;-)) ..but ..UGC appears to have some effect.( they have absolutely no SEO ).tiny sample I know ..but as on the whole I've stayed stable or slightly gained throughout panda in all my niches and areas..I'm not running the tests for my own benefit, just for info.

KW in domain appears to still help ..

and running a test on the KW "finance" in both G.com and G.fr ( the word is the same in both languages ) the results are KW in title..and / or massive back links..UGC doesn't enter the equation for certain terms..it isn't a simple algo by any means.

scuse typos ..and weird syntax ..typing/reading in one toungue and posting rapidly in another ;-)

AG4Life




msg:4295928
 2:47 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

Had two sites, both designed using the same linking structure. One was hit when Panda first rolled out (in the US), the other was fine.

Today, both were hit (well, actually, one was already hit, but now hit more thanks to Panda rolling out worldwide, and the other took a hit as well).

CainIV




msg:4295929
 2:55 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

keyword domains with content that is duplicate from their merchants do just fine.


There seems to be a significant way in which Google looks at comparison pricing engine websites.

It is almost as though they snapshot the quality of content against the "big guys"

Since most of the big players simply mashup their content by blending in POI's, reviews and various other elements, it might be a case of not having alot of high quality text to "score" and therefore demote against.

Let's face it, most of the those websites simply collate already existing results.

Interesting note how unique content websites have tanked. Seems like an about-face considering the mashups and duplication we see currently

Broadway




msg:4295930
 3:07 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

I'm getting spanked today. I have a US based general information site, with 20% of traffic from international sources.

I fared well with Panda US. Evidently I'm tanking in the SERPS with Panda world-wide (English).

SirTox




msg:4295931
 3:09 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

I have taken a 50% hit today. Since noon I've been stumbling to figure out what I did to piss off the Google gods. I started reading this forum and the comments about how the lighter/scraped content is paying off way better. Originally I called BS. Then I looked at may Analytics accounts and realized my the posts with less words are performing much better. The info is accurate and unique, just a little scant on details. Stuff I really put my heart into have fallen to page 2.

This is also true when comparing to my competitors. The less they wrote about a topic, the higher they ranked. Most of the higher ranking stuff is also inaccurate, so I don't see how user feedback via the BLOCK button could be making any positive difference.

Yeah. I'm done caring. Short and sweet from now on, and possibly not even correct. My posts now will be almost the size of a tweet.

AG4Life




msg:4295932
 3:11 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

Observing two websites in my niche, both are *official* websites for software products, that have download pages. When you search for "download ###", where ### is the software name, their official download pages no longer rank as the top result. Instead, one is taken by a major file download website, and the other is taken by a keyword domain that is actually hosting an outdated version of the software from 2 years ago. At least it's not malware (thankful for small mercies).

Results still make sense on Bing.

kd454




msg:4295934
 3:12 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

Trust me on this, IF you do not know what the game is and how it is done to the rules, and this includes Yahoo!/Bing/whatever...you will lose!


Well that depends on what you call a losing.

I have a lot of sites (if I did not have so many I would be screwed now) and play with different things , but I try to keep my main sites as "clean" as possible but this does not matter to Google anymore they will burn them anyway.

I am going to start not caring if a site gets taking down will spend less propping it up so it will not hurt so bad when it goes. Will just replace it "disposable" sites is the new catch phrase for 2011 :)


If anything the Panda is making me think much smarter going forward.

OldIrish




msg:4295936
 3:17 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

I have an abandoned half finished 3 year old website that floats around out in Google. I forgot to add noindex,nofollow to it. Was just checking the traffic stats on it and today it's pulling in record traffic numbers. What a day this is turning out to be.

Is this the Monty Python Update?

[edited by: OldIrish at 3:21 am (utc) on Apr 12, 2011]

netmeg




msg:4295937
 3:20 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

I think they'll probably deal with the scraper content eventually. Maybe even eHow. Another shoe has dropped, but I doubt it's the last one. (This beast probably has a lot of shoes)

OldIrish




msg:4295939
 3:24 am on Apr 12, 2011 (gmt 0)

@netmeg I'm sure they'll get to the scraper content eventually but first they have to ban or penalize every clean high quality original content driven site.

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