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Google PANDA rolls out WorldWide
incrediBILL




msg:4295470
 4:31 pm on Apr 11, 2011 (gmt 0)

Today, for the first time, after checking daily, I can now see US Panda results on Google properties worldwide including but not limited to: .co.uk, .ca, .co.in, .com.au, .fr, .de, .se, etc.

Congratulations, it's no longer speculation if you have Panda, it's quite visibly there.

 

Asia_Expat




msg:4296556
 1:29 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

There are still some Google sites running pre-Panda English results such as Google Israel, Google Hong Kong

Yes, I can confirm this... all of my old positions are still there on google.co.th for example.

crobb305




msg:4296557
 1:30 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

Yes, I can confirm this... all of my old positions are still there on google.co.th for example.


Ok, thanks for confirming. I was looking for an explanation and I couldn't put my finger on it.

backdraft7




msg:4296560
 1:44 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

According to Alexa, Panda has definitely taken a bite out of ezinearticles.com - twice in fact. eHow remains remains unscathed. I wonder eHow that happens.

OldIrish




msg:4296566
 1:57 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

I wish that for once, just once, Google would come out and finally tell the truth. These hints, whispers, and partial truths that they keep feeding us hope with are beginning to feel like psychological abuse. Why can't they just come out and finally tell us the truth about their search results. I'm sure that it would read something like this:

"Sorry folks but our index and the influx of new content has just gotten too large to be able to properly manage. There's too much abuse and just too many variables to consider. It is with great regret that we have decided to restrict the exposure of smaller less trusted content providers. Panda has addressed these concerns by giving additional ranking weight to our larger more trusted partners (i.e. corporate brands). Thank you, Google."

Imagine the breath of fresh air that would sweep through the internet if Google stated the truth just once. No more small cuddly bears masking the corporate take-over of the search results, just the cold hard brutal truth.

Google obviously enjoys watching webmasters blame and torture themselves each and every time that their livelihood gets wiped out in the blink of an eye. If Google would just be honest about the "real search game" then we could finally take our websites and go find a new search engine focused less on corporate brands and more on real quality content (that would be a lucrative void to fill for someone capable of building such a search engine). Until Google is finally honest I suppose we'll just let ourselves be strung along with this circus of 1,000,001 ways to penalize a website into obscurity.

I remember years ago when being a webmaster felt like a real profession. Thanks to Google I now feel like an addicted gambler sitting at a roulette table. Sadly for this Google update my websites obviously landed on the wrong color (I'm not a million dollar corporate content farm).

And one last thing. It is appalling watching the masses sit idly by as Matt Cutts and Co. attempt to equate exact keyword match domains with search spam or something less than honest. I'm now a dirty person because I have exact keyword domains? Notice how in his YouTube video he used the "Viagra" example. What this company is being allowed to do to the internet is unbelievable. I really hope that people start standing up to this nonsense.

[edited by: OldIrish at 2:17 am (utc) on Apr 13, 2011]

crobb305




msg:4296575
 2:16 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

I remember years ago when being a webmaster felt like a real profession. Thanks to Google I now feel like an addicted gambler sitting at a roulette table. Sadly for this Google update my websites obviously landed on the wrong color


I agree. I know these dramatically announced algorithm changes, and pressing the big red button to initiate the big rollout, cause a huge adrenaline-rush power trip for Google engineers. They go home at the end of the day thinking "wow all these webmasters, thousands of them, are talking about something I did to them." It's a power trip. Reminds me of watching the TV show Cops when they get the adrenaline rush from turning on the blue lights. That's exactly what it is. There is no improvement to quality. It's drama.

Well, I have enjoyed taking a breather from programming and analyses today to discuss here, lots of good feedback and ideas... Now I am gonna try to get some coding done. One good thing about these updates is that it gets everyone working together. Sometimes working alone day in and day out gets lonely, so it's nice to have some chatter :)

[edited by: crobb305 at 2:22 am (utc) on Apr 13, 2011]

Reno




msg:4296577
 2:18 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

Imagine the breath of fresh air that would sweep through the internet if Google stated the truth just once.

I agree ~ I've lost my patience with this sick game they are playing. At this venue alone I've been calling for them to please define their terms ~ Spinmeister Matt Cutts and others have been heralding the ambiguous term "quality" without once (as far as I can see) giving a meaningful indication of what exactly this entails. It certainly is not going to collapse their empire if they actually explain themselves, and yet outside of GoogleLand, MANY real people have been seriously damaged. Much good could come from clarity ~ millions of websites could be improved, if only webmasters knew in no uncertain terms how exactly they viewed "quality". If in fact they are enjoying this outragous charade, as has been suggested, and if there's such a thing as "karma", then I hope they get their's.

....................

OldIrish




msg:4296582
 2:29 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

In the last year and a half I've gotten so paranoid about Google that I wouldn't even update certain high traffic websites for fear of bouncing them into the sandbox for 6 months (something that would randomly happen to me every now and then). And bear in mind that these are old authority trusted websites.

Nothing with Google Search makes sense anymore in my opinion. I have never once been banned or penalized by Yahoo or Bing. My users love my content. And yet here I sit having been hit by a massive Google tsunami.

crobb305




msg:4296589
 2:41 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

Do you guys think html sitemaps should be noindex? I wonder if they are considered 'thin' since they are just a list of links to internal pages. I know we're forgetting about the user nowadays, so I am thinking about noindexing the sitemap (which is linked from every page via top nav). I read another member had noted their top-level directory pages seemed to take a big hit. I hate to start noindexing my pages, but my html sitemap page doesn't get a lot of entry search traffic.

brinked




msg:4296591
 2:46 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

I dont mind when google makes updates that knock down useless low quality websites. But to replace those useless low quality websites with other useless low quality websites is kind of pointless.

Google says this update effects about 12% of search queries, well if you ask me, that number is much much higher.

As for trying to get websites with quality content to rank higher, then why am I seeing a website rank very high for a popular term that has one of those landing page, "this domain may be for sale" type of deals.

Google always responds to an algo change with something like "we are seeing great results with the latest algo change to eliminate spam etc etc". There is no denying that these updates do improve some searches, but to me, for every search they improve, there is a search query that takes a hit.

Its kind of like trying to get rid of a pest problem, you blow up areas in your house where the pests are coming from, you killed the pests but now you have a ton of property damage, so you essentially replaced one problem with another.

Leosghost




msg:4296592
 2:47 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

I still think that the best chance anyone has of reversing the effects of panda or mitigating them is to analyse what didn't get hit or stayed stable or rose ( even if it only rose a little )..
And it may well seem like I'm "harping on" on some points..but it is what I see ..as usual YMMV ..but it is all data.

Some peoples direct experiences may well contradict what I find ..but these are general observations over many months and years and many niches and more than just the English language..and with regard to nav and design ..are the fruit of hundreds of hours of watching how "non web" people react with sites..don't ask your family how they find your site ( you will get flattery or fights ..neither is of use to you ;-)..watch strangers ..if needs be, pay people to spend 10 minutes trying to use your site and watch what they do

Fora and sites with UGC didn't get hit so hard ..or stayed stable.or rose ..the more posts ( directly related to the site or page topic..ie; the clearer the signal and the association with the site ..and the more posts or traffic the fora have ..the more apparent "votes" it gets ) UGC and like signs of "engagement" may be taking over as a parameter from "links".
Because links can and are bought and sold and exchanged etc ..Google brought this upon itself ..it's stated "best metric" was turned against it ..unless they are from highly relevant sites or pages ..they may no longer be given as much weight as they were ..its easier to buy or "make" 10K links than it is to get 1K post that mention your site ( and actually talk about it , as opposed to just "spam" about it .. in fora ) ..facebook shows the power of "like" .its like average internet user "trust" for a site ..

G thinks it can believe this more than it can believe links in many cases..yes it can be abused ..we've speculated how ..but it will be harder to abuse than "links"..so they are shifting the "weighting" ..

And to those who have loads of inbound links from all over the place..and even those who have "relevant" inbounds..if the sending site ..or the sites that link to them got "revalued" enough ..you will fall ..through no direct fault of your own...Wheel started 2 threads recently that show how to be less affected by algo change..I didn't post in the second one ( because the first one got trolled ..so thought why bother ..in case ) but he matched something I see with my sites ..unique links that the other sites cannot get or don't even think of trying for because they don't know the subject inside out and can't think of some of the more "off the wall" links ..can protect a site..they appear to read as more "real" ..because they actually are ..the quality of links ( not the often irrelevant PR of the sending page which may not be relevant to your site's subject ) "count"..a "golden link" or a handfull of them, or a forum that talks about you and then links to you from inside a post or two ..can keep you treading water or floating along when all around are drowning or swirling about..because their back links or some of them just re not passing the "smell test" ..and G appears to be saying "humans posting is worth way more than site owners linking".

The look and feel of a site ..I'm "harping on" again ;-) ..the first impression is critical and they ran "preview" to test reactions...No one can read your expert text nor decipher your graphs etc in "preview" ..they can however see if it looks like it is just loads of ads ( and apart from those of us who make all or some of our living from ads ..everyone else on the net hates ads..and G knows that..) ..but people like images..but not images that look like ads even when seen in "preview" ( thinking about header ads here ) ..I sell direct ad space on my places ..with some adsense ..I make the ads ..they don't look like ads ..they look like photos or illustrations with text ..when seen through "preview"..

The first glance and the first impression someone gets via preview is not text with ads ..its text with pictures ..and talking to others who haven't been hit and who have images on page ..they give the same impression viewed by "preview" ..and still do when the visitor arrives ..unlike the pages of the builder or even of one of our older members here whose site was mentioned ..the ratio of text content to obvious ads was not high enough to pass the "its all ads test" ..especially recently ..

This does not mean it has to be all arty designer stuff ..the opposite in fact ..rocknbill who comes from the same type of print and design and art background as I do, frequently is on the same "design" threads here as I am, and we are forever telling people KISS..read him..again the sites that I know were not affected including my own are simple and easy to use ..clear nav ..you cant get "lost" in them if you don't know what nav looks like..Simplicity gets you through many "updates" if the rest of the mix is there.

Keywords in domain name ..yeah OldIrish ' like the name BTW ;-) ..keywords in domain name do count ..and should .. it shows commitment ..it "themes" ..it shows you have thought about what you are doing..it shows "serious" ..can't get the keyword you need ..be inventive ..or buy it ..again it shows serious commitment or imagination ..and it's easy to remember for visitors or links from non webmaster people..that's why domain names were started ..to save the non geeks from having to remember all the numbers..

And apart from the tiny number of the population who are webmasters the rest are definitely non geeks..who need easy to remember relevant names to go to..' ( branding is totally different .. takes mega money and time ..and if you are reading this thread looking for ideas ..you already don't have that kind of money ) ..and search engines will always give keyword domain names a "leg up"..not just Ford and GM but "leosonlinelemonadestall" is more relevant the "leosonlinecirusbasebeveragestand"..even if you put hyphens in ..;-)

I have single page 5 and 6 and 7 letter keyword domain names that are in the top 3 consistently of hundreds of millions of returned searches..that haven't moved in years ..before or after panda..in more than just English..and some of them have just one or two inbound links ..and they are from other sites I own..older sites with "trust" are the best to use to point links from like this ( they also have very tight on page SEO ..but read naturally )..But if you don't have your other ducks in a row ..or you have a huge back link portfolio that suddenly went south because Google devalued the sites that linked to you or the sites that linked to them..the the positive effects of keyword in domain ..or better yet "exact match keyword domain"..( some times might take me 48 hours without sleep finding a good one that is actually not already taken ..well worth the effort ..even at my age ) won't save you from being "lost in serps".

Directories..got some .very tight niches ..again stable ..why? ..because they are not just lists of sites..each entry has an optimised ( by me ) description , based on the submission and my visit to the candidate site ..admission is hard to get..they run ads for revenue ..some of the sites also pay for ads ..again I control/make the ads ..lot of work ..yeah ..but the control is IMO the secret ..and I promote them..not via paid ads but via deals with other relevant sites for ad space swaps or other deals ..( again the kind of thing wheel talks of )..No adsense on the directories ..because I can't control completely what G might put there.

There are other things ..but it's near 04.30am here and I have things to do later in the day so am going to have a nightcap and read and get some sleep ..remember what I've written may very well not be relevant for many ..and is not a "guaranteed way" ..but is based on real observations of my own stuff and others ( some of them members on here ..who have not been hit and who are like me not normally affected by what Google gets up to ..although at least one of them frets about their adsense almost hourly ;-))..hopefully it may be of some use to those of you who I know are not spammers and who help out others here ..and who could use some ideas as to why ..even if your solutions turn out to be totally different ( as well they may ) this may give food for thought..

Even disagreeing with me might make some "light bulb" go off, and thus help someone to turn their sites fortunes around.

HTH ;-)

apologies also thats it is a bit of a rambling tome ..and probably full of speeling errors ..takes forever to type and correct English on French keyboards, especially when you are dog tired, and don't want to disturb the family ;-)

[edited by: Leosghost at 3:41 am (utc) on Apr 13, 2011]

Leosghost




msg:4296600
 2:59 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

Reno and OldIrish ..re "quality"

I just read rest of the thread that was posted while I was typing my "doorstop" ;-)

"Sorry folks but our index and the influx of new content has just gotten too large to be able to properly manage. There's too much abuse and just too many variables to consider.


I do actually think that you may have part of it there ..they may not know any longer what quality is ..and do not have the means to sift and weigh to find it ..and even if they threw all their machines at it ..it would still be just their idea of "quality ..so they have "crowd sourced it"..something Larry in particular likes ..they decided that it is in the eye of the beholder ' the average surfer..

And they are content to steer it as one guides the flow of water but let it in essence find its own way and level and be affected by the end user..rather than try to grasp it and decree it..easier on the hardware ..and the eventual result satisfies the end client ..who is not us...

Fits what I see..and have seen for a while with them.

again touches of Foundation and Heisenberg

indyank




msg:4296630
 3:40 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

Keyword domains and domains focussed on a single topic are dominatig the SERPS in google right now.I am not sure why people are seeing it otherwise.But it is very obvious in my part of the world.

For eg., if your domain name has "bill payment" in it and the site has several pages on that topic, then google has given it a hard upward push.

Those with keyword domain names and yet finding themselves "pandalized" may do well to see whether you have faltered at something else like having too many ads or having pages on unrelated topics etc.

But apparently, sites with keywords as domain names or sites focused on some very specific topics are doing extremely well for keywords related to those topics.

bluntforce




msg:4296632
 3:42 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

I've been watching a "site" for about six months that turned into a parked page about a month and a half ago. There is no content, there's an iframe which has links and limited text but there's nothing of significance outside that iframe.

It would be hard to consider that quality.

What it does have is over 400 inbounds, some built over a period of years and a lot built fairly recently with profile links and spamblogs. It's been slowly moving down over the past month from page 1 to page 2, but it is still fairly stable.

Single word search term generates 80MM+ results so it is competing with "real" sites.
So, I believe that links still have a significant impact, evidently enough to over-ride no onpage content, at least in this one instance for some time period.
Good post, Leosghost.

justawriter




msg:4296637
 3:47 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

I'm with Leosghost - somewhere in there is an answer. Why did some keyword domains get clobbered and others didn't?

Why did some content rich sites get whacked and others didn't?

Why did one of IncrediBill's directory sites get hammered in the first Panda update but my very thin local directory site seem to escape unscathed?

Somewhere in there ... if you can look past the pain ... there are answers and finding them will do lot more for your business than ranting at Google and threatening them with legal action and gaming their own system.

Stuart

viggen




msg:4296640
 3:51 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

..its easier to buy or "make" 10K links than it is to get 1K post that mention your site ( and actually talk about it , as opposed to just "spam" about it .. in fora ) ..facebook shows the power of "like" .its like average internet user "trust" for a site ..


...sorry to burst your bubble, but its just as easy to get 1k posts, likes, tweets than to make 1k links, actually its much easier and much faster...

cheers
viggen

justawriter




msg:4296641
 3:51 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

Keyword domains and domains focussed on a single topic are dominatig the SERPS in google right now.I am not sure why people are seeing it otherwise.But it is very obvious in my part of the world.


It's interesting you say that Indy because I'm from the same part of the world and seeing the same with some of my sites.

Stuart

koan




msg:4296652
 4:30 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

but its just as easy to get 1k posts, likes, tweets than to make 1k links


"Click on the LIKE button to participate in this free contest!" You get 10K LIKES in one week, for what, the price of a small prize. Getting 1K legit links would be far far more expensive.

viggen




msg:4296657
 4:37 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

"Click on the LIKE button to participate in this free contest!" You get 10K LIKES in one week, for what, the price of a small prize. Getting 1K legit links would be far far more expensive.


....thats my point, if social noise is (becoming) an integral part of the algo, than good night serps, its spammers paradise, 10.000 fans/likes you can get for 30 bucks...

potentialgeek




msg:4296683
 5:51 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

> According to Alexa, Panda has definitely taken a bite out of ezinearticles.com - twice in fact. eHow remains remains unscathed. I wonder eHow that happens.

One site (see home page link) is now reporting eHow has just been hit - more than 50% traffic cut. This is the Google Tsunami of 2011.

> "Click on the LIKE button to participate in this free contest!"

When the G-Men and -women (Google Engineers) catch it, we'll have the Like For Real Update. ;)

indyank




msg:4296686
 5:59 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

I am waiting for the sistrix report and I am still not convinced that eHow has been hit as hard as that report says.

Shatner




msg:4296695
 6:30 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

>>Somewhere in there ... if you can look past the pain ... there are answers and finding them will do lot more for your business than ranting at Google and threatening them with legal action and gaming their own system.

I realize a lot of you guys just got hit by this today, but a lot of us here have been trying to do just that for going on 2 months now... and have been unable to find those answers.

They don't exist. No site has recovered, no one has found the answers.

Shatner




msg:4296696
 6:31 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

>>I am waiting for the sistrix report and I am still not convinced that eHow has been hit as hard as that report says.

That report is only international search too right?

Why would they be hit internationally but not at all in the USA? That makes no sense.

ohno




msg:4296703
 6:44 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

Looking at the stats this morning makes we wish I hadn't woken up :( ZERO sales converstions yesterday, I can't even recall when that last happened. Safe to say for whatever reason Google has completely wiped our ecommerce site off their search. What I can't understand is it still appears in the SERP's when checked by various sources. Another member commented on this, looking at the SERP's we should be home & dry yet we are no where near. Oddly the .com site that was always much quieter is much busier(well that wouldn't be hard would it!). I'm gona sit tight for a week or so, if nothing happens then I'll start again with a fresh domain employing the most dirty tactics possible. Jumping through every Google hoop for the past 10 years has got us no where now!

Tashi




msg:4296720
 7:53 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

Google is ranking my pages completely wrong: My "blue widgets" page ranks high for the keyword "pink widgets", "square widgets" ranks for "circle widgets"...

Google, there's something wrong with your search engine.

incrediBILL




msg:4296724
 8:15 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

Google, there's something wrong with your search engine.


It's called Panda.

Do not be afraid.

NetsocietySeo




msg:4296730
 8:27 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

Possible 'positive' factors in my opinion:
- textual content above the fold
- focus of page layout should be on content, not on ads
- strong social media presence helps
- low quality content pages should not be noindexed or removed
- broad linkprofile (not dependend on a particular type of links)
- high user engagement

Would love to hear everyone else their thoughts.

steerpikegg




msg:4296737
 8:42 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

I was just thinking - if Google intend to go down the user feedback route, why not just give us a 'Hate' button similar to the facebook 'Like' button - we can then save them the bother.

stukerr




msg:4296743
 9:03 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

Apparently this update has hit reviewcentre.com and dooyoo.co.uk quite hard (source: [blog.searchmetrics.com...] - I wonder if google will still be including their reviews in their google shopping reviews ?

ohno




msg:4296745
 9:07 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

Looking at the stats this morning makes we wish I hadn't woken up :( ZERO sales converstions yesterday, I can't even recall when that last happened. Safe to say for whatever reason Google has completely wiped our ecommerce site off their search. What I can't understand is it still appears in the SERP's when checked by various sources. Another member commented on this, looking at the SERP's we should be home & dry yet we are no where near. Oddly the .com site that was always much quieter is much busier(well that wouldn't be hard would it!). I'm gona sit tight for a week or so, if nothing happens then I'll start again with a fresh domain employing the most dirty tactics possible. Jumping through every Google hoop for the past 10 years has got us no where now!

denisl




msg:4296747
 9:17 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

@NetsocietySeo
"- textual content above the fold
- focus of page layout should be on content, not on ads "

Don't know if it is in Panda but G should appreciate this - create pages for the user. Yes we need to monetise but that is not necessarily what the user wants. An important point IMO.

"- low quality content pages should not be noindexed or removed "

Don't know about this one but I expect G may look closely at changes made to sites in reaction to Panda - they may see too many changes as gaming the system. That of course creates a catch 22 but it may ge better to focus on improving thin pages instead of removing them

Khem




msg:4296750
 9:29 am on Apr 13, 2011 (gmt 0)

I look after a few sites, none of which seem to have been majorly effected - a few place changes here and there.

The one thing I have seen is a few of my sites have been leap-frogged by Keyword domains. The sites themselves that have ‘jumped’ mine are badly put together, and don’t offer anything unique, are not kept up to date - but have jumped over me and taken the #1 #2 spots.

On one of my sites that this happened to, the site now at number 1 for a 2 keyword phrase - has always been the bottom of page 1, this has the exact 2 keyword search phrase in its domain.

The other site that jumped mine and took the #2 spot has come from nowhere, I follow my competitors very closely and this site has not been in the top 5 pages until Tuesday morning - this site has 1 of the keywords from the search phrase.

The sites I run have no Ads, clean and simple navigation, are kept up to date with news breaking blogs (from its niche) and have a pretty varied backlink profile - 90% of which all natural. – Just my observations.

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