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Penalized site: what can I save?
MoneyHoney




msg:4284069
 8:54 am on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

Hello,

I guess my question is clear: if I have a penalized site from several months and I can't find a way out, what can I save?

I have a website with a minus 50 penalty for a year, with high quality contents and backlinks, a nice and useful design and it's 6 yo. I don't find a way out, so I intend to save as much as possible from it. What can I save? Just, take the contents and the design, put it on another domain and start again linkbuilding from the scratch? (I don't think it is an onpage penalty, it is really clear!)

I have another experience: I bought an old domain (2002) that used to be in english, I put on it quality italian contents, I bought high quality backlinks and after a while it disappears from the results. It isn't penalized (if you find namedomain.com+keyword it is first), but if you try to find a long page title with " ", it doesn't appear. In this case I guess I can save just the contents, the domain is compromised. But what would happen if I move the site with a 301? Same situation in the new one?



Thanks in advance and sorry for my english,
Jorge

 

maximillianos




msg:4284129
 1:33 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

Penalties expire depending on the severity. I've seen sites build link farms using hundreds of fake blogs get penalized and come back a year later stronger than before.

Penalties from G are just a slap on the wrist. They will never permanently ban you no matter what you do.

Kind of makes you wonder why we don't all just do black hat. It is the best way to gain ground in SERPS in the long run. Take the penalty and come back stronger than before.

MoneyHoney




msg:4284141
 1:46 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

@maximillianos you are right. But I've tried really every way, and the penalty is still there. Now, for my best site, it's 1 year that I try to find a way to get round of it, but, without any result! So I need to save as much as I can, and restart my job. As you can understand, I'm losing a lot of money!

walkman




msg:4284146
 1:52 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

If google catches you with bought links you'll need to clean them up and beg for forgiveness

MoneyHoney




msg:4284154
 2:02 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

@walkman you are right too :D the problem, as you know, is that in some field either you buy links or you can't rank. That's mine. Everyone, without any exeption, buy links..

I know, this isn't a good reason to do the same. Anyway, I think that no one is looking into my site, also if I sent many tickets by GWTool. So, the best way, it's to start my job again from the scratch. And here my question again: what can I save? :)

walkman




msg:4284155
 2:10 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

"So, the best way, it's to start my job again from the scratch. And here my question again: what can I save? happy!"

Not much, but keep the bought links and content on the old domain (maybe a noindex?) as this penalty will expire after 18 months. Since you need to buy links, be more discreet :)

MoneyHoney




msg:4284157
 2:14 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

sorry for my bad english. So, I have to keep the bought links and content on this old domain? Or can I put them on another domain? (an agency told me to take the contents, put them on another domain, and then put on the old domain just a page with something like "Coming Soon").. can you confirm that's a nice way?

walkman




msg:4284168
 2:42 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

No such thing as confirm because we only give guesses.

I said keep the links so when the penalty expires you have a good ranking domain. New links will cause you trouble, no?

MoneyHoney




msg:4284178
 2:55 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

If it will expire :D I didn't make more link building, I can't spend money on it at the moment.

I just want to know if I can save the contents/design, so put them on another domain, without have troubles. And then, put on the old site just a "coming soon" page, and wait the end of the penalty... are there better ways?

pageoneresults




msg:4284191
 3:15 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

According to a recent video from Matt Cutts, there are both automatic and manual penalties invoked. Algorithmic penalties typically give you a "time out", I believe MC used 30 days as an example. Manual penalties may be a bit more severe with an expiration date set by a human.

I have a website with a minus 50 penalty for a year, with high quality contents and backlinks, a nice and useful design and it's 6 yo.


I'm guessing it is an algorithmic penalty and there is something still triggering it after all this time.

I don't find a way out, so I intend to save as much as possible from it. What can I save? Just, take the contents and the design, put it on another domain and start again linkbuilding from the scratch? (I don't think it is an onpage penalty, it is really clear!).


Did you say link building? Well, that changes the ballgame. Maybe you've tripped an algorithmic penalty that looks at your link profile. If it is out of whack based on averages, there's a good chance that your link building efforts are the cause.

I have another experience: I bought an old domain (2002) that used to be in english, I put on it quality italian contents, I bought high quality backlinks and after a while it disappears from the results.


Hmmm, that's twice you've mentioned links. Bought links are signals.

It isn't penalized (if you find example.com+keyword it is first), but if you try to find a long page title with " ", it doesn't appear. In this case I guess I can save just the contents, the domain is compromised. But what would happen if I move the site with a 301? Same situation in the new one?


I wouldn't do it. That 301 tells Googlebot to permanently redirect the equity/history of one to the other. I personally believe you can transfer bad mojo from one domain to another in this particular scenario.

MoneyHoney




msg:4284200
 3:29 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

@pageoneresults thanks for your reply.

About the first site: yes, could be an algorithmic penalty caused by link building. As I wrote, it's strange, because all my competitors do it. Anyway, they are so many backlinks, so I guess I can't recover it (how can I cancel links from directories, articles etc..?).

So, I would try to set aside the domain (although old, PR4 on the home page and many internal pages, 6 years old, authoritarian), and try to save at least the design and contents. I've tried to search on this forum (and in Google too) some experience about it, but no results.

About 301, I guess you are right. So I won't do it.

MoneyHoney




msg:4284201
 3:31 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

A thing that I didn't write is: the site is multilanguage, and the other versions are on subdomains. They are penalized too. Also if I try to create a new subdomain, it is penalized as well..

trakkerguy




msg:4284267
 6:22 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

MoneyHoney - I've 301'd many penalized domains to other sites, and never seen the penalty follow.

I've also 301'd HEALTHY domains that were top 5 for smaller keywords, to stronger sites I own. 12-18 months later, removed 301 and the origional domain REGAINED its former positions.

Planet13




msg:4284270
 6:33 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

Algorithmic penalties typically give you a "time out"


I thought that for Algorithmic penalties, the only way to get out from them was to modify the site so that they no longer fell under that penalty.

Then it would just require that googlebot recrawled the "clean" site, and the customary lag time for the site to re-appear in the SERPs.

Please look at about the 45 second mark of this video:

[youtube.com...]

Where Matt Cutts addresses algorithmic penalties.

To me, it doesn't sound like there is an additional time period added on after the site has been recrawled - just a normal lag time for the rankings to be updated.

But I could be wrong.

Nagani




msg:4284297
 8:06 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

My understanding of the Matt Cutt's video is about on-page penalty, Not off-page penalty such as bought links and the same keyword on several incoming links.
They give a hint that off-page penalty exist in this video
- Tips on Google Reconsideration Request -
[youtube.com...]

MoneyHoney




msg:4284325
 9:50 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

MoneyHoney - I've 301'd many penalized domains to other sites, and never seen the penalty follow.

That's really interesting! What kind of penalty?

I've also 301'd HEALTHY domains that were top 5 for smaller keywords, to stronger sites I own. 12-18 months later, removed 301 and the origional domain REGAINED its former positions.

Sorry, my english is SO bad. The "stronger sites" where penalized or the "smaller" ones?

Thanks again for your reply!

tedster




msg:4284330
 9:56 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

I believe that comment said "never" saw a penalty - in other words, there was none. I worked with one client that had 301s from over 1200 domains to their main domain - and never a penalty there either.

Some redirects were from other businesses that they bought, and others were from domains that had never been developed but were owned to guard against trademark violators and typos.

MoneyHoney




msg:4284331
 9:57 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

I thought that for Algorithmic penalties, the only way to get out from them was to modify the site so that they no longer fell under that penalty.

Then it would just require that googlebot recrawled the "clean" site, and the customary lag time for the site to re-appear in the SERPs.

Please look at about the 45 second mark of this video:

[youtube.com...]

Where Matt Cutts addresses algorithmic penalties.

To me, it doesn't sound like there is an additional time period added on after the site has been recrawled - just a normal lag time for the rankings to be updated.

But I could be wrong.

Thanks for your reply.

I'm noticing that Google is really really slow to recrawl my site. For example: I've excluded by robots ".php" pages, to avoid duplicate, and... after several months, they still indexed.

MoneyHoney




msg:4284334
 10:01 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

My understanding of the Matt Cutt's video is about on-page penalty, Not off-page penalty such as bought links and the same keyword on several incoming links.
They give a hint that off-page penalty exist in this video
- Tips on Google Reconsideration Request -
[youtube.com...]

Really interesting video. Thanks.

We've wrote really complete tickets, but maybe nobody check my tickets, because it is algorithmic (?!). We did a very huge effort to resolve many many problems on the site, and we did our best to avoid guidelines infringiments. (except link building).

I'm seeing some penalty because backlinks. But they have penalties about a specific keyword or page, never for the entire site. I don't know :S

MoneyHoney




msg:4284335
 10:06 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

Paying more attention in [youtube.com...] it seems that ALL the manual penalties will expire. is it correct? but not the same for algorythmic penalties..

aakk9999




msg:4284347
 10:57 pm on Mar 19, 2011 (gmt 0)

@MoneyHoney,

I have a website with a minus 50 penalty for a year

Why are you so certain you have penalty? As you say in this thread [webmasterworld.com ], and also in a separate thread on "Review my site" forum, you had quite a bit of issues in the last 12 months, from redirecting your domain to non-www, then redirecting it back to www, all within last 12 months - the exact timeframe where you say you got penalty.

Is there something else that makes you so certain that it is penalty and not suffering from technical issues?

trakkerguy




msg:4284428
 3:40 am on Mar 20, 2011 (gmt 0)


MoneyHoney - I've 301'd many penalized domains to other sites, and never seen the penalty follow.


That's really interesting! What kind of penalty?


These were mostly -50 penalties. search for "domain.com" the sites were #50.
After 301, the NEW domain was not -50. And new domain would show some strength in ranking for keywords that carried over from the old domain.

Also, have 301'd sites that were deindexed entirely. New domain didn't appear to be penalized, but also didn't SEEM to benefit.



I've also 301'd HEALTHY domains that were top 5 for smaller keywords, to stronger sites I own. 12-18 months later, removed 301 and the origional domain REGAINED its former positions.


Sorry, my english is SO bad. The "stronger sites" where penalized or the "smaller" ones?


These are TOTALLY SEPARATE from first examples. None penalized. Just 301'd some domains to others. Then, removed 301 much later. Domain came back to life every time.

MoneyHoney




msg:4284500
 9:27 am on Mar 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

Why are you so certain you have penalty? As you say in this thread [webmasterworld.com ], and also in a separate thread on "Review my site" forum, you had quite a bit of issues in the last 12 months, from redirecting your domain to non-www, then redirecting it back to www, all within last 12 months - the exact timeframe where you say you got penalty.

Sorry, I opened this thread simply to know: ok, I can't resolve my penalty. What can I save? I really worked hard to find a solution, without results, so I have to find a different way..
Is there something else that makes you so certain that it is penalty and not suffering from technical issues?

The only thing I'm sure is that it is a penalty, but, as I wrote, I don't know the cause. Maybe a technical issue? Yes, maybe. The timeframe is clear: redirect to non-www and penalty.

In this 3d I'd like to speak about things that someone can do when think to have a site irreparably compromised.

MoneyHoney




msg:4284503
 9:32 am on Mar 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

These were mostly -50 penalties. search for "domain.com" the sites were #50.
After 301, the NEW domain was not -50. And new domain would show some strength in ranking for keywords that carried over from the old domain.

That's very very interesting! Maybe it is a nice solution for my site that doesn't rank because its story. (no penalized, just doesn't rank!)

Other experience like this?

CMidd




msg:4284513
 10:39 am on Mar 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

considering you monetization system consider Adwords/Facebook advertising.

MoneyHoney




msg:4284522
 11:38 am on Mar 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

@CMidd Eheheh.. I can't.. I need to receive free visits :)

MoneyHoney




msg:4284923
 9:21 am on Mar 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

These were mostly -50 penalties. search for "domain.com" the sites were #50.
After 301, the NEW domain was not -50. And new domain would show some strength in ranking for keywords that carried over from the old domain.

Also, have 301'd sites that were deindexed entirely. New domain didn't appear to be penalized, but also didn't SEEM to benefit.

Sorry, another question. Were they all-new domains? So, did you redirect the penalized domain to a all-new domain or..?

MoneyHoney




msg:4285867
 6:27 pm on Mar 22, 2011 (gmt 0)

Hi all,

I've done my choise. For the second one, which was not ranked (but not penalized too), I've put all the contents on a all-new domain.

So, I've requested the removal of the first site (done in 24h) and redirected the old one to the new one. Now, I don't know if to remove the block of Googlebot or not. What do you suggest? Start a new project from the scratch or try to save the backlinks from the old one, so remove from robots.txt the "disallow"?

Thanks a lot :)

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