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Google saves the rank and doesn't change it even if i edit my pages
xnavigator




msg:4243368
 10:59 pm on Dec 16, 2010 (gmt 0)

So guys i am having some issues:

whenever i do some changes to my pages their rank doesn't change at all in SERP.

It's like g saves the rank for every pages in serp and even if u edit the pages they will show based on the saved position

eventually after months the rank will be recalculeted considering this time the changes...

Do i get any way to analyze to watch the serp changing without waiting months?


thanks

 

goodroi




msg:4243407
 12:40 am on Dec 17, 2010 (gmt 0)

there are many items that impact google rankings. the content of a page is just one of them. only making changes to the content is often not enough to improve its ranking. you should also pay attention to the link popularity and usage quality signals.

besides optimizing the many items that impact a url's ranking power you should also remember that google serps are personalized. google may be displaying your serps based on your location and previous searches. then there are even other issues like qdf that can impact rankings.

basically the google algo is very complicated and takes into account many items which is why simply changing content is not always enough to improve rankings.

xnavigator




msg:4243544
 11:49 am on Dec 17, 2010 (gmt 0)

i am not referring to simply a text change.

I moved a page(optimized for a key1) from my domain to a new subdomain: key1.mysite.com

that's a big change imo (i moved other similar key1 pages under this subdomain)

after google indexing it nothing changes as well (of course i was cookie-free and google account-free)

with a change like this i don't think i should have been always the same rank before and after =/

goodroi




msg:4243554
 12:31 pm on Dec 17, 2010 (gmt 0)

have you reversed engineered the pages that are ranking above you? it might be that they are very competitive. google does many things but i would not say they lock people into rankings (excluding penalties).

lets say you are ranking #3 with a score of 40. if the url ranking at #1 has a score of 100 and the url ranking at #2 has a score of 95, you will need alot of seo effort to change your ranking. in this example even if you double your backlinks your score would rise to 80 and you would still not see a change in your rankings.

xnavigator




msg:4243560
 12:42 pm on Dec 17, 2010 (gmt 0)

that may be true.

but i tried on a key that was 17th... I think on that level pages score were all close.

Anyway i can do a test on a key ranked 40-50+ and see if something changes.

But at least for my experience i can say first 20-30 results are saved and they doenst' change even if u make hard changes ( rank will eventually change after months )

and this got a point: google blocks SEOs who want to make tests.

netmeg




msg:4243631
 3:03 pm on Dec 17, 2010 (gmt 0)

Why would Google want an index full of SEOs making tests?

xnavigator




msg:4243680
 4:30 pm on Dec 17, 2010 (gmt 0)

he makes the index for the real keywords used by poeple.

tedster




msg:4243833
 10:36 pm on Dec 17, 2010 (gmt 0)

It sounds like your particular test got a result - and that result is "no change".

I really don't think Google "saves" rankings - most SERPs I watch are amazingly fluid and always churning.

xnavigator




msg:4243873
 1:40 am on Dec 18, 2010 (gmt 0)

hm which serps u watching?

i am watching serp in my country between 20k-100k results

tedster




msg:4243885
 2:28 am on Dec 18, 2010 (gmt 0)

Are you watching one of Google's ccTLDs? They often get different treatment from google.com - but I still don't see frozen, stuck or saved rankings.

xnavigator




msg:4243945
 10:33 am on Dec 18, 2010 (gmt 0)

yes only ccTLD.

be careful: i don't mean serps are stuck. New pages found by google if worhty may be placed on serp.

I mean the already spidered & placed pages on a serp are stuck there on that rank calculated the first time google indexed it.

I am sure even if i cut off 20-30% of 1 of my pages google will not change rank for its keyword anytime soon.

goodroi




msg:4243960
 1:49 pm on Dec 18, 2010 (gmt 0)

if you strongly beleive that your ranking is locked into place then upload blank pages. i'm thinking that just might demonstrate that your rankings are not locked into place.

tedster




msg:4244005
 5:51 pm on Dec 18, 2010 (gmt 0)

I am sure even even if i cut off 20-30% of 1 of my pages google will not change rank for its keyword

That might well be the case - because on-page factors are not the whole algo by a long shot. However, I'll bet that if you removed a given secondary word from a new page, then your page would not rank as well for any phrases that include that word.

Here's the way I understand Google rankings. A page does not actually start out with "its" keywords attached some how. In fact, a page can rank for any combination of words on the page itself or in its backlinked pages. Sometimes a page can rank for semantically related phrases that don't even appear at all.

---

Google's back end calculations do not usually "assign" a SERP position for any particular query. That approach would require Google to calculate every possible query ahead of time. Since they see a large percent of queries every day that are brand new, that approach wouldn't be very practical. It just wouldn't scale.

So instead, Google calculates RELATIVE numbers - numbers that are then compared to other candidate URLs. The candidates being compared are in a preliminary result set of under 1,000 URLs that are most relevant to the query.

Every page is assigned all kinds of meta-data on Google's back end. That meta-data is quantified and those various numbers are then combined in complex calculations. That calculation generates the relative values that are then compared,ending up with an ordered list.

---

If the meta-data for the URLs in that result set has not changed much, then the URLs might not show any shift in position. But that doesn't mean they are fixed or set.

One of the big purposes for the Caffeine infrastructure was to allow that meta-data to be recalculated in very small batches, rather than having to wait for a long period before recalculating a big batch, all at once.

---

As I see it, the process I sketched out above is the most common case - by far. But Google does have the capacity to assign a fixed ranking. They showed us that with the old Minus Thirty Penalty [webmasterworld.com] four years ago. But that was a pretty crude ranking approach compared to what they do today, and it was reserved for harsh penalties - penalties that were assigned on top of a regular ranking.

Two years ago I saw a few cases where a URL would pop back and forth at different times of day, going from position 4 to a varying position on page two. Again this was very rare, but Google did have the ability to assign position 4 directly.

Also Google clearly uses Universal Search results that can be blended into the SERP at a given spot. But these Universal results (News, Video, etc) do not actually "use up" one of the ten organic positions.

---

So what you are reporting would be a bit of a mystery. I like the idea for some kind of a test. Maybe goodroi's blank page idea, or maybe your own suggestion of removing chunks of content. If you do that and report back, we may all learn something.

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