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Switched from one kind of penalty to another
frup




msg:4029682
 6:06 pm on Nov 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

There was a -40 penalty on a site for a few months. Every single search came up on page 5, no matter the search term, even "big money" terms as well as the name of the site.

Now Google seems to have switched to a different sort of penalty. Some searches are turning up for page 1, long tail searches, the name of the site, etc.. However, for the "big money" terms, the site is completely gone. It doesn't even come up on page 5 any more.

What sort of penalty is this? Has Google switched from a hand penalty to an algorithmic penalty? Or is this a different type of hand penalty?

 

tedster




msg:4029707
 7:02 pm on Nov 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

They can both be algorithmic penalties or manual penalties. How long ago was the switch in ranking?

Probably the most important question, do you have a sense of why the first penalty was applied? That kind of penalty is usually because of the backlink profile, dodgy external links on your pages, or both. Have you checked to see if your site was hacked and is now hosting parasite links, or even parasite pages?

CainIV




msg:4029820
 12:57 am on Nov 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

This might be a good thing. Had you previously submitted a reinclusion reuqest?

I have noticed that for some websites the -40 'type' penalties are very tough. They seem to be link related / manipulation penalties. Often they seem to require some type of reinclusion request to break free of, although they can also be duration-based.

Penalties which involve specific keywords can be much easier to work with.

What page(s) does this website show up for for 'money terms'?

frup




msg:4029830
 1:46 am on Nov 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

As far as I can tell, it doesn't show up AT ALL for the "money terms". What happened was, there was the -40 penalty, then for like 3 days it was ranking well, and then it disappeared for the money terms. However, it is ranking well for long tail and the site name; when it had the -40 penalty, it wasn't ranking for these things.

UK_Web_Guy




msg:4029958
 9:31 am on Nov 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

CainIV

"Penalties which involve specific keywords can be much easier to work with."

How would you go about resolving these or are they just usually time based?

SEOPTI




msg:4030158
 4:38 pm on Nov 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

It seems to me there is some tweaking going on with the -950 re-ranking at the moment, especially with phrases in the body text, not anchor text (speculation based on one of my sites).

CainIV




msg:4030624
 4:29 am on Nov 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

However, it is ranking well for long tail and the site name; when it had the -40 penalty, it wasn't ranking for these things.

This is a good step forward. One fairly positive indicator that I have seen on example websites with manual bans is an absolute loss of all keyword positions including rankings for the business name - even in the case of a very rare business name.

I would work on looking at your backlink profile as Ted mentions and taking a strong look at what could be considered dodgy links. Dig deep and secure some really trusted links, regardless of anchor text.

This type of 'search and replace' campaign can be effective in moving you in the right direction.

CainIV

Penalties which involve specific keywords can be much easier to work with.

How would you go about resolving these or are they just usually time based?

Most penalties I have seen are time-based and keyword based. A rare and small percentage are ongoing, where the website inherently trips filters every 2-3 weeks, and the ranking curve follows the "yo-yo" characteristics (in and ranking two weeks, then out for a period of time)

Since so many penalties are link-based, I would start there - analyzing and detecting the build rate and link anchor diversity of the newer inbound links.

Overoptimization of particular competitive phrases can often be overcome quicker by developing trusted links with off-beat (and more natural) anchors such as Yourwebsite.com, Yourwebsite etc.

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