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Google's New Caffeine Engine - the dev version is now public
tedster




msg:3969510
 12:48 am on Aug 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

Secretly, they’ve been working on a new project: the next generation of Google Search. This isn't just some minor upgrade, but an entire new infrastructure for the world’s largest search engine...Google's now confident enough in the new version of its search engine that it has released the development version for public consumption. While you won't see too many differences immediately, let us assure you: it's a completely upgraded Google search.

Article at Mashable [mashable.com]

The url for the development version is [www2.sandbox.google.com...]

 

ken_b




msg:3970207
 12:05 am on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Seems fast. But is it, or is that just because it's not bogged down by the hunt for appropriate ads?

tedster




msg:3970210
 12:12 am on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

This timing though to me is to counter act the new bing and also include the MS and Yahoo deals.

Google may be fast, but not that fast. :-)

I agree, the timing of the announcement and going public with a dev version might be influenced by Bing+MS -- but you don't build a whole new infrastructure that fast.

I think the competitior that Google has their eye on here is Twitter - and the speed they are focused on is indexing speed, or what gets called "real time" search. That's the kind of speed that could require a whole new infrastructure.

It's not just how fast they can return a SERP As others have observed, Google is already mighty fast at that. It's how fast they can find, spider and index new results where frexhness is a factror. QDF takes on a whole new meaning!

austtr




msg:3970220
 12:45 am on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

No major differences in SERP results. All the same players are still holding the same or similar rankings.

My searches show major differences in the number of reported results.

Caffiene vs Standard
----------------------
26m vs 48m
3.9m vs 2.9m
38m vs 57m
8m vs 10m
8m vs 2.4m

whitenight




msg:3970223
 12:56 am on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

I think the competitior that Google has their eye on here is Twitter - and the speed they are focused on is indexing speed, or what gets called "real time" search. That's the kind of speed that could require a whole new infrastructure.

It's not just how fast they can return a SERP As others have observed, Google is already mighty fast at that. It's how fast they can find, spider and index new results where frexhness is a factror. QDF takes on a whole new meaning!

Ok, Goog totally scooped the observations I was noticing this week and half and specifically in reference to that site you reference in the yo-yo thread, tedster.

(you can move this post over to that thread if you want, but it fits in both)

This "new" infrastructure is already LIVE!

Tedster, if you have the ability, go to that site where it was bouncing around from between #2-6. De-optimize the keyword density of the "culprit" word, systemically over the course of a week until it settles where you want it.

Once you make the change, watch where your SERPs show up within the next 2 hours. (on Goog.com, the other DCs won't show til the next 24 hours)

You can literally see your testing within HOURS!

Been playing with this on a site all this week and was going to tell you about it.

EDITOR'S NOTE - this ONLY applies to tedster's yo-yo, and implies NOTHING about other people's yo-yo issues.
BUT if you want to test something else and see how quickly the changes occur, go ahead.

johnnie




msg:3970225
 1:07 am on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Caffiene vs Standard
----------------------
26m vs 48m
3.9m vs 2.9m
38m vs 57m
8m vs 10m
8m vs 2.4m

I noticed that too. To me, it would appear that it has something to do with pluralization.

tedster




msg:3970232
 1:24 am on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

If I could test like that, I would. It's a major corporation and the wheels of change turn slowly. However, they'd be hard pressed to deoptimize the page too much further. Title [once], H1 [once], and once in plain text -- plus once in nofollowed anchor text, if that even matters.

They're currently #6 on the API data (never at #2) and #6 on regular search (still the occasional #2 yo-yo). But they are #3 on [www2.sandbox.google.com...]

The synonym search for this term is interesting. On the dev Google, the News box is at #1, but on regular Google it's at #4.

The added emphasis on News seems to line up with the idea that it's all about freshness. This is not a query term that seems to be very freshness sensitive to me, either. The Local box I can see, but the News box just seems goofy.

whitenight




msg:3970235
 1:30 am on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

If I could test like that, I would. It's a major corporation and the wheels of change turn slowly. However, they'd be hard pressed to deoptimize the page too much further.

That's what I figured. Oh well.

The nofollowed text counts as plain text, so if you could convince them to change it, that's where i would go.

They'll just have to be happy with #6 for the term.

tedster




msg:3970261
 2:53 am on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

However, the #3 on the new test version is a nice surprise. They can also hope that will stick. Traffic from a stable #3 will probably beat what they get from the 2 to 6 yo-yo.

srik79




msg:3970349
 8:13 am on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

OOP filters has been lifted on my sites

dusky




msg:3970363
 8:56 am on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

For those who bookmarked my prediction for G*'s big announcement before September (http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/3952730.htm), this is not the one, that is still to come.

From what I hear, G* is moving towards being a "Just In Time Search Engine" or JIT-SE for short, that's the only way they can maintain superiority (or will they). The concept was talked about since the mid to late mid 90s, but the technology and architecture then was not capable enough to carry the idea, but now and in the near future one could see it happening!

From what I can gather, this is just a tap on the shoulder for all to turn round first for attention, then the real announcement will be made!

HuskyPup




msg:3970385
 10:17 am on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

The concept was talked about since the mid to late mid 90s, but the technology and architecture then was not capable enough to carry the idea,

The original Google beta was almost instantaneous, sometimes within seconds and sometimes a few minutes. I used to spend hours and hours on weekends experimenting with it to see how keyword placements, titlebars etc affected the results.

This was, of course, years before all the spammy crap and garbage arrived on the scene which necessitated algo changes and greater filtering abilities.

conorirl




msg:3970409
 11:03 am on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

I was looking at some competitive keywords of a client this morning, seeing ‘what if’ – few changes here are there – but one surprising one – a site that currently ranks 402 on G for a particular keyword – would rocket to #10 under sandbox for the same word!
What have they “suddenly got”, where is it?

cangoou




msg:3970484
 1:11 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

From what I hear, G* is moving towards being a "Just In Time Search Engine" or JIT-SE for short

How would you suggest such a thing could work? Google spidering every page every minute?

martinacastro




msg:3970548
 2:36 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Im in southamerica, perhaps they use a filter, but I don`t see nothing different... anyone in southamerica see something different?

bhartzer




msg:3970577
 3:09 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

but one surprising one – a site that currently ranks 402 on G for a particular keyword – would rocket to #10 under sandbox for the same word!
What have they “suddenly got”, where is it?

looks to me that there is some more emphasis on content

Hissingsid




msg:3970639
 4:39 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm wondering if some of the differences I'm seeing are the result of manual penalties not applied in this new index.

Cheers

Sid

sem4u




msg:3970645
 4:51 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Wonder if they need to fold in/apply new backlink data or anything which might affect things.

Yes, I think that there is maybe 2-3 months of backlink data that isn't in the new index. I am guessing that this data will be applied end of this month or beginning of next...just a hunch but these are my thoughts at the moment.

whitenight




msg:3970654
 4:59 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm wondering if some of the differences I'm seeing are the result of manual penalties not applied in this new index.

That's an issue to an argument I've been having with Goog for 4 years now, Sid.

Most people have noticed that SERPs are pretty much the same (or better) EVEN THO it's obvious various filters and penalties have been lifted.

So who, why, and how, are these filters and penalties helping Goog end users?!

And it goes even deeper than that when one gets into the PUBLIC PHILOSOPHY of Goog execs that webmasters are their enemies.

These are GOOG's words not mine.

Who are they fighting?
why are they fighting us?
and exactly how is it making the SERPS better?
by applying all these filters and penalties that have
the general public moving to Bing! at alarming rates.

So we'll see if Goog is smart enough to reevaluate their ENTIRE philosophy re: their filters and penalties and how and when they are applied to this new algo/infrastructure.

signor_john




msg:3970678
 5:22 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Most people have noticed that SERPs are pretty much the same (or better) EVEN THO it's obvious various filters and penalties have been lifted.

Maybe--for now. I wouldn't read too much into the fact that Google is testing the cake before adding the icing and decorations.

whitenight




msg:3970695
 5:39 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Maybe--for now. I wouldn't read too much into the fact that Google is testing the cake before adding the icing and decorations.

Why do you keep saying this to me?

As always, i would suggest reading between the lines of what i'm saying

Or

read the last 4 years of my 99% correct predictions of what direction Goog is going
(which most times was extremely contrary to what popular opinion is/was)
before you say this again.

Seriously signor, what exactly is your point!?

That the beta SERPS will be different a month from now?

Geez, you mean,... like... stuff always changes?

Is this some revelation that everyone on this board doesn't already know?!

freejung




msg:3970756
 6:54 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

I have a couple of datapoints I'd like to share, not sure what conclusions to draw from them.

As I've said before, my niche is normally very static, but there have been some odd newcomers popping up lately during this update. Here is what happened to two such:

Site 1: completely irrelevant to the keyword, appeared recently in the top 5. It's a very good and very popular site in a totally different niche which happens to be promoting an event with "keyword1" in title and "keyword2" in the body, but not at all related to the theme of this relatively high-volume SERP. This site has been completely removed in Caffeine.

Site 2: this site is "keyword1keyword2.org" but has no content at all, consists of a single page made in 2006 which says there may be some content soon, not even any ads. Appeared recently in top 10. This site actually ranks slightly better in Caffeine.

Neither of these ought to rank (not that they are spam, both appear to be ranking more or less by accident). The question is, why has one been removed and not the other? Perhaps improvements in relevance, but no better ability to detect quality?

Bones




msg:3970762
 6:58 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Little story about this from the Beeb (hope the mods allow the link):
[news.bbc.co.uk...]

Digmen1




msg:3970815
 8:30 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

I hope they take this chance to improve their search results so that old article and forums do to come up on the first page.
Eg if I search for US dollar I do not really want to see article s on it that were written 5 years ago.

martinibuster




msg:3970823
 8:44 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Tedster said:
I think the competitior that Google has their eye on here is Twitter - and the speed they are focused on is indexing speed, or what gets called "real time" search.

I updated titles, metas and some headers of a handful of pages last week that temporarily showed up in the regular SERPs then dropped out in favor of text from older pages. The updated titles and descriptions are showing on the sandbox SERPs, with a jump in ranking which I attribute to the changes I made to the titles, headers, and some on page content.

aristotle




msg:3970855
 9:45 pm on Aug 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

freejung wrote:
Site 2: this site is "keyword1keyword2.org" but has no content at all, consists of a single page made in 2006 which says there may be some content soon, not even any ads. Appeared recently in top 10. This site actually ranks slightly better in Caffeine.

How can a page with "no content at all" rank in the top 10? Maybe Google should add a simple filter requiring that a page has to have a minimum of 50 words of content before it can rank that high. What you should do is click the "Dissatisfied - Help us improve" link at the bottom of the Caffeine Serps page and complain about this. Google is asking for feedback, so give them some.

dusky




msg:3970967
 1:35 am on Aug 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

How would you suggest such a thing could work? Google spidering every page every minute?

Short answer, not quite, but close, however, the spidering thing will be a thing of the past except for authentication / authentification of ownership, site response (and a few other site pings). it's the webmasters who will do the data dumping on search engines servers, the other way around that is. It's like using a sitemap except you directly dump your database of links, static flat files, SQL, media... by logging into Bing, G* and others who are going to surface soon. Instead of going round collecting billions of pages, we have to do a dump / upload on their server whenever we have any new / changed content, after that, they don't visit pages for change ONLY to ping the site...!

Instead of SEs spending days on collecting and analyzing data and weeding out spam, (most of the spam will be eliminated as you are already known, have an account and all intelligence is already gathered about you whether you have spammer potential....), they concentrate on producing sought information AS IT HAPPENS, hence in a JIT fashion. Of course there are a lot to it than I said (I took part in this research years ago...). When I saw the twitter guys going public with their (much different) idea, I was very disappointed!

Basically, information gathering, spidering, algo analysis and presentation all that will be standing on its head within the next 5 years if not sooner!

The Internet as we know it will change, all your content, link /URL, title, description, page text, images, CSS, media...all stored on SEs databases NOT just the URLs (you can no longer present clean page to the spider, then few hours later change it to a dirty one, as no one will see it), searchers of course will visit your site as usual BUT SEE THE APPROVED CONTENT ..(how? a long story, but caching pages and archiving except information is live NOT for historical purposes...)

Think of your site as a book, you publish it, you hand it in to the library and book sellers etc, if you have a new edition, you update it and do the same, people buy the book or borrow it from the library...have you ever borrowed or bought spammy book?

Technology convergence (Mobile, Radio, Television... on one hand and the Offline Print Media and Internet on another will dictate such a massive change, the internet is already moving towards the "Voiced Content" as the primary content, though the digitally printed / published content will stay and remain sought after as usual!

I was meaning to polish my paper from years ago, I am sure I'll get round it before I am 65, all being well that is, when you pass 50+, things start to slow down!

whitenight




msg:3970983
 3:01 am on Aug 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

Sounds a little too close to willingly asking for Big Brother, dusky.

And I, for one, will spend any amount of time, money, and action to prevent such a thing.

I've done it before and will continue to do it.
(Never could rally people to eliminate willing allowing GPS in their cell phones, but oh well)

I can tell you that the current administration would be policing this like white on rice, and for good reason.

5 years? We got a singularity coming up in 3-4 years so I'm not too worried about "this version" of SEs coming along.

But if I see things leaning this way, you can bet a whole bunch of like-minded people would work to prevent it.

---------

So, back to your original prediction?
Is it facebook?

Might as well tell now.
You've left enough hints that you either
have already broken SEC laws
or
the laws don't apply to you in the first place.

tedster




msg:3970995
 3:41 am on Aug 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

There's a video online from WebProNews, where Matt (at SES San Jose) discusses Caffeine, this new Google infrastructure:

[videos.webpronews.com...]

micklearn




msg:3971000
 4:24 am on Aug 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

Well, after reading a number of posts that really stand out...so, no one here actually works for Google, right?

tedster




msg:3971015
 5:12 am on Aug 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

LOL - no one in this thread, that's for sure. It's just us folks. Google employees are always well identified on WebmasterWorld, and it's been a long time since a Google employee posted in this forum.

GoogleGuy [webmasterworld.com] - in July 2008
Adam_Lasnik [webmasterworld.com] - in August 2008
MattCutts [webmasterworld.com] - in November 2008

There are also members of the Adwords team and Adsense team who post here, but only in those respective forums.

cangoou




msg:3971048
 8:00 am on Aug 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

Are there any hints when Caffein will come out of the playground and go online on google.com? Are we talking about weeks or month?

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