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'Fear Grips Google' - says NY Post. Sergey Orders Bing Study
trinorthlighting




msg:3933265
 2:03 am on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

Interesting New York Post article on how Google is looking at "Bing"

[nypost.com...]

[edited by: tedster at 2:10 am (utc) on June 15, 2009]
[edit reason] corrected the newspaper attribution [/edit]

 

tangor




msg:3933280
 2:59 am on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

Love the way the media titles reporting. :)

Not sure how much "fear" is involved, but I am thrilled to see Bing getting a serious look. Diversification in the market can only be good for all.

tedster




msg:3933288
 3:09 am on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

For those who aren't familiar with the NY Post, let's say that they have a style that often overstates the facts. Here's some commentary on the Post story from mashable that sums up my take on the "story":

The Post has a knack for spin, and while Google may not be gripped by fear, wed think it only prudent for the search leader to consider what threat, if any, Bing poses to its dominant market position...

The bottom line: wed be more concerned if Google was not paying attention to new competitors.

[mashable.com...]


BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:3933388
 8:47 am on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

The software company has struggled to survive in the Internet-search business, with its former MSN search engine managing to grab only 8 percent of the lucrative search market share -- far behind Google's 60 percent and Yahoo!'s 20 percent share.

Where do they get these figures?

AnkitMaheshwari




msg:3933414
 10:11 am on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

Probably they are just checking their server logs (single website) and coming up with these numbers thinking that it is fixed :)

cangoou




msg:3933435
 11:24 am on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

In Germany it's in the news that Sergey Brin himself is leading the "task force" to analyse Bing, which the newspapers of course interpret as how good Bing has to be.

whatleywah




msg:3933459
 12:16 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

Maybe its just Marketing Spin setup by MSN/Bing to get more people looking at the search engine....

whitenight




msg:3933591
 3:32 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

overstates the facts

lol. are you spinning the spin?

i recall saying the same thing to MC when INEXPLICABLY he popped over to this forum to comment on something that he had NO reason to respond to.

Goog is scared ST!#less over BING!

How do we know?

Geez, MC couldn't shut the heck up with commentary and appearances and controversial FUD the last 2 weeks.

That's the SURE sign something is bothering Goog.

It's the same as Whenever he's over here making some "clarification" or the ever so popular "PRONOUNCEMENTS OF DOOOOOM!", one can be sure either:

the thread topic is TOO close to the truth

or

Goog is doing some serious "PR management" regarding the issue

Here's a clue.

If I was running a company and paying my top engineer googops of money, would i want him "chatting up" the opposing company's new search engine telling them they "need improvement" IF i wasn't ultimately concerned over them?
(over a personalized search, no less. Gawd, thought i had a big ego?!)

-----------
Goog always believed their own hype that THEY were responsible for dominating search.

Some of us have been saying FOR YEARS that it was the WEBMASTERS who ultimately made Goog what it was/is.

They are about to be ironically reminded of this, like all big companies who forget their roots. :)

Pass the Dutchie




msg:3933622
 4:31 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

IMO as a search engine Bing still lags way behind Google.de. The results are pretty poor and don't make much sense. For example, one site I monitor does well across the board for 'Country + Widgets'. For these two terms in Bing the site in question is on page 5. However, when typing in just 'Country' the site is on the first page, position 4.

Lots of other oddities like multiple pages from the same URL showing up in the SERPs (normally Google will strip out the duplicate URLs), 301 redirected domains are everywhere, photo galleries taking preference over home pages which are 10x more likely to be what the user is searching for than a gallery deep down in the site's content. Small, newbie mom n' pop sites are trouncing established authority sites - good for the up and coming, not exactly the rich experience we are accustomed to with Google.

Don't worry Sergey, take the summer off and give Bing something to worry about ; )

arizonadude




msg:3933626
 4:34 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

Whether or not they are scared doesn't matter. What does is are people going to use it.

I've decided to give it a try and see how it does. So far, I think some of the features are better than google and for the most part the results are pretty much what show on Google. (at least for things I'm searching on)

I read an article that Google is looking at Twitter and might even start displaying Twitter results in the serps. If they do that, they will lose me forever and I'm sure they will lose many others who will not like to wade through useless twitter posts to find what their looking for.

Time will tell whether bing makes a dent but so far I think it's off to a good start. With all the advertising they are doing, people just might give it a try and decide they like it.

And yes, some of my sites show up and others don't. To many time people say it sucks because their sites don't show and that is really not how the public at large is going to judge it.

Philosopher




msg:3933634
 4:44 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

arizonadude, I've heard similar in a lot of different areas so far since Bing launched.

I've heard very few people saying they didn't like it, and more and more people saying they do. I hope that trend continues

weeks




msg:3933666
 5:37 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

bing! whatleywah grabs the reality and gets the prize!
Maybe its just Marketing Spin setup by MSN/Bing to get more people looking at the search engine....

That said, the effectiveness of the marketing spin Google has toss out over the last several years has left me in awe. This spin is, looking behind the scenes, perhaps more interesting than whatever the facts are.

Woo! It's 1998 again... No? Well, then don't send in your resume to the NY Post as headline writer...

signor_john




msg:3933668
 5:40 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

Well, if Bing really is the next big thing and Google is headed for the ropes, we can take a break from "Google is a monopoly" rants for a while. Who knows--maybe Microsoft-bashing will come back into vogue. :-)

trinorthlighting




msg:3933672
 5:44 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

It will be very interesting if a MS and Yahoo merger goes through. Then I would say game on for the search engine king. MS does have a ton of money they can throw at this if they really want to.

walkman




msg:3933705
 6:11 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

NY post is hardly a newspaper and usually serves as blog for Murdoch, like most of his other papers.

So, if he has any benefit on promoting Bing or MSFT, NY Post would undoubtedly write about it.

hutcheson




msg:3933709
 6:12 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

>That said, the effectiveness of the marketing spin Google has toss out over the last several years has left me in awe.

I suspect the reason for this is simple: Microsoft's attitude is "we've spent the last 5 years sitting on the pot, now how do we convince people these bricks are golden?" And Google's attitude is, "what can we spend the next year on, that people will think is golden?"

So Google puts out a constant stream of stuff that might attract people (and some of it does!), while Microsoft rearranges the ribbons on their one pony's tail--very little more than new user interface kludges on top of the Windows/Word product, or shoddy attempts to imitate something else that someone else did better four years ago.

Google's spinners merely have to reflect what the early adapters say. Microsoft spinners have to deflect what their early adapters say. It's such an enormous advantage, you don't really know how good the Google PR folk are. (While there's nothing Microsoft can do about the technology, they've been extremely successful at astroturfing "opposition" to several of Google's recent business ventures.)

whitenight




msg:3933737
 6:37 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

MS does have a ton of money they can throw at this if they really want to.

And THIS is what has Goog so scared.

Gosh, bet they wish they hadn't pissed off their grass roots support that HANDED them billions of dollars of FREE advertising when they were a start up, eh?

can take a break from "Google is a monopoly" rants for a while. Who knows--maybe Microsoft-bashing will come back into vogue. :-)

Acts like a duck, walks like a duck...

and yes, when Goog is no longer acting or walking or talking like a duck then i'm sure the "evil google haters" will move back to MS 'bashing'

poor goog! always getting bashed. :( :sniff:

-----------

In TRUTH, the greatest thing for Goog is for Sergey to actually get back into the nitty-gritty day-to-day SE stuff.

I've always said, for all the 100's of PHD "geniuses" slowly breaking Sergey's and Larry's true masterpiece, those 2 gentlemen are the ONLY real geniuses over at the plex.

So that's a net plus for Goog as a whole.

weeks




msg:3933760
 7:21 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

It's such an enormous advantage, you don't really know how good the Google PR folk are.

I think you make a good point, hutcheson. And, it's not just sharp, on-target technology. There is also a lot of honest caring with a good dose of personal charm not only in the two founders of Google, but many of the people around them, that simply cannot be manufactured by spin doctors.

That said, at times there is heavy hand directing their "tread lightly" marketing and public relations efforts. I know journalists and vendors who have seen the iron fist in the velvet glove. It is sometimes frightening that it has to be that way, but that's the reality today of modern business when the stakes are high. This only increases my respect for Google's management.

nomis5




msg:3933810
 8:36 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

BING will be forgotten in six months time. Forget the results as far as your own sites are concerned, just look at the pile of rubbish results it comes up with. Corporate sites, corporate sites, then corporate sites again followed by (no, not more corporate sites) but url packed keywords. Those url packed keyword results will please those who have little content but very expensive urls. But it won't work. BING can't analyse content like Google can. Game over.

MLHmptn




msg:3933821
 8:49 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)


BING will be forgotten in six months time. Forget the results as far as your own sites are concerned, just look at the pile of rubbish results it comes up with. Corporate sites, corporate sites, then corporate sites again followed by (no, not more corporate sites) but url packed keywords. Those url packed keyword results will please those who have little content but very expensive urls. But it won't work. BING can't analyse content like Google can. Game over.

I see no rubbish, that is the problem for Google. Corporate sites are a problem in SERP's? I'd rather have corporate sites than mom'n'pop sites that can't even touch the surface of a corporate site or for that matter what the corporate companies have to offer vs. mom'n'pop companies. BING at the moment for the searches I watch is DEAD on perfect just as Google is, so I'm presuming you haven't actually looked at bing's results. BING is not causing a stir because of rubbish SERP's, quite the contrary. While I do agree with you that keyword domains do well in bing it's not everything in bing's algo or their SERP's wouldn't be quite this good, nor would Sergey be fretting! I love Google, but honestly I'm quite impressed by the results on Bing and with the traffic it is providing at the moment. It's quite nice to see visitors from Bing browsing my sites vs. Google's 1 hit bounce rate visitors that are most likely my competitors. In any event, this is only my two cents so take it like a grain of salt.

[edited by: MLHmptn at 8:51 pm (utc) on June 15, 2009]

freejung




msg:3933822
 8:50 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

those 2 gentlemen are the ONLY real geniuses over at the plex.

I'm going to have to disagree with that one, as I know someone else at the plex personally. He's smarter than you and me put together.

They have plenty of brains, that's not the question. The question is, who's doing the steering, and have they allowed short-term quarterly gains to eclipse the bigger vision and steer them off track?

Bing may be fantastic for Google -- it may force them to focus on the quality of their core, something they have had the luxury to neglect if they choose for some time now.

nickreynolds




msg:3933826
 8:51 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

I've been using both Bing and Goog for the last few days. Not much too choose between the results but the Bing interface is abit nicer. Goog doesn't need to be quaking with fear, but I expect a small downshift in market share

fishfinger




msg:3933846
 9:32 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

Why are so many people overjoyed that MSN might become more dominant in the search market?

All they've ever done is take stuff from the public domain, make it worse and put a price tag on it. In fact the search market is the only one I can think of that they operate in where they AREN'T dominant.

Some underdog. Woo, go Microsoft.

whitenight




msg:3933850
 9:43 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm going to have to disagree with that one, as I know someone else at the plex personally. He's smarter than you and me put together.

lol, don't make me pull out my mensa membership card. ;)

When i say "genius" i mean those rare few, like 1000 people on the earth, who combine intuition, intelligence and creativity at cosmic levels, not the "average" geek with a 140+ IQ score.

That would include ALL the other "genuises" working at the plex who haven't come up with ONE single TRULY innovative idea outside of Page's and Brin's original creation.

Why are so many people overjoyed that MSN might become more dominant in the search market?

Why aren't more people fighting against any SE sending upwards of 80% of one's SE traffic?!

I always wonder why webmasters don't "get"
that in a perfect world FOR THEM
each SE would have 33.33% of the marketshare....no more, no less.

signor_john




msg:3933861
 9:50 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

I always wonder why webmasters don't "get"
that in a perfect world FOR THEM
each SE would have 33.33% of the marketshare....no more, no less.

1) What's magic about having three search engines, as opposed to two, four, or ten?

2) Wouldn't the Webmaster be better off if the search engine that loved him best had a greater-than-average market share?

whitenight




msg:3933865
 9:57 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

1) What's magic about having three search engines, as opposed to two, four, or ten?

Wow! Really?!

Ok, i'll play along...

if it's 2 then 50% each
if it's 4 then 25% each
if it's 10 then 10% each

I really don't have time to go into advance game theory matrices to explain
why 3 SE's at 33% is best,
but you can do some research on it if you're REALLY interested, instead of playing semantic games.

2) Wouldn't the Webmaster be better off if the search engine that loved him best had a greater-than-average market share?

lol really? Do i need to go thru past posts of yours to see when Goog did NOT love you?!

Again, you need to understand some BASIC game theory matrices to understand why you DON'T want ONLY ONE marketshare leader "loving you" ...

or

you can read the many many THOUSANDS of threads on here where people were ranking for years and one day, suddenly :poof: they are in SE pain.

tedster




msg:3933872
 10:11 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

I wouldn't be so overly literal about what percentage is ideal - but we really do need healthy competition in the search market, rather than near-monopoly market dominance.

And not only "we" as webmasters need competition, but "we" as citizens of the planet. There are many unhappy consequences after any monopoly gets established, including government regulation and meddling of many kinds.

Google has often stated that they welcome competition. Still, I'm certain they would rather not lose even one percent of their market share, espcially during this challenging economic period. I certainly don't see Google quaking in fear, but they certainly do need to be vigilant.

It is interesting whenever there is any press coverage of anything at all to consider why this story is published at this time. The NY Post is not exactly the go-to source for tech news, after all! But this headline is getting a lot of attention in other media - and it mostly spins out from "unnamed sources" innuendo. Mission accomplished, I'd say, whatever the mission was.

suggy




msg:3933883
 10:24 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

I cannot imagine why Google would fear 'Bing'. Looks like the same old dressed up pretty. All I see at the top of my category on Bing is the 'keywords in domain' and buy hundreds (or thousands) of cheap links (comment and article spam) crap. For commercial searches it sucks; it's even more naive than Yahoo!

Microsoft seems to be developing a wonderful capability: to spend millions reinventing the wheel. First Vista and it's insane Unix-like permissions. Now this. Way to go guys!

signor_john




msg:3933892
 10:59 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

It is interesting whenever there is any press coverage of anything at all to consider why this story is published at this time. The NY Post is not exactly the go-to source for tech news

No, but it's owned by Rupert Murdoch, who recently asked the question, "Should we be allowing Google to steal all our copyrights?" Murdoch's News Corp. also owns MySpace, which had a three-year, $900 million advertising deal with Google that won't be renewed at anything like that price ($50 million was the number cited in one recent report).

But this headline is getting a lot of attention in other media - and it mostly spins out from "unnamed sources" innuendo. Mission accomplished, I'd say, whatever the mission was.

Not so many years ago, Microsoft was the company people loved to hate; now it's Google. To paraphrase an old saying, everyone hates a winner. :-)

zeus




msg:3933898
 11:03 pm on Jun 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

well I have noticed myself for every image search I use Bing be cause they dont filter everything, but I have also used it for some search and I have never really used MSN/Live before.

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