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Ranking of Internal Pages - any suggestions?
zaneta




msg:3658163
 2:37 pm on May 24, 2008 (gmt 0)

I have a site that plays in the first page for the general keyword.
It has been a year now that my internal pages have been droping in google
rankings. I have done everything that is in the google guidelines:

-Relatively short url www.mysite.com/productX/
_Focused meta tags on each product page,(not in a spammy way)
_Content, content, content... I have the largest code to text ratio from all
of my competitors
_Created a photo gallery page for each product
_Internal linking in what i consider a very reasonable way, in a way that
helps my visitors
_The internal pages have many incoming links from articles and forums
_Consequently many of the internal pages have PR3, although about 1/3 of them has grey PR bar. Still for all pages the SERP results are really bad (position lower than 100 in google).

The site is 6 years old, yet the internal pages keep dropping in google SERPs. I cannot figure out what i am doing wrong.

Any help on how these "perfectly" built internal pages play better in google?

 

glengara




msg:3658322
 8:29 pm on May 24, 2008 (gmt 0)

I'd get a third party to look at things,you may be overdoing the internals...

Robert Charlton




msg:3658369
 10:51 pm on May 24, 2008 (gmt 0)

Any help on how these "perfectly" built internal pages play better in google?

They may be too perfect.

I agree with glengara's comment that "you may be overdoing the internals." In this discussion, I mention some tests I've been doing that suggest that too many right-on internals to a page can cause it to drop, particularly if it's a page that's already highly optimized....

Replace traditional navigation with links in the content?
[webmasterworld.com...]

Your situation, of course, may be different, and my tests are by no means conclusive. Consider them, at this point, anecdotal observation.

I'm curious how varied your incoming links are. Do they repeat the same anchor text? How about your internal links? Do they also repeat the same anchor text?

steveb




msg:3658392
 11:26 pm on May 24, 2008 (gmt 0)

Most likely culprit is the photo galleries are sucking up pagerank, and dependign on how they are done they are creating a too high greybar-to-greenbar ratio for your site, causing it to lose overall respect in Google's eyes.

Also, too many internal links from forums should raise a red flag on the baloney meter, since most such links are self-serving.

flanok




msg:3658428
 12:18 am on May 25, 2008 (gmt 0)

One of the risks of links comming from articles and forums could be the anchor text within them are the same.

Constantly adding links to a page with the same anchor text eventually will hurt the page rather than help it.

You should use different phrases / words.

If you for example have the anchor text as your signature and post many posts, you could be harming rather than helping.

Also, if you write articles and then republish that same article on different sites, with the same anchor link text either within the article or same signature on each article, it will not look natural to google.

use sitemaps to go through all your links to each page and see how varied they are or not, as the case may be.

zaneta




msg:3659785
 11:57 am on May 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

"..that suggest that too many right-on internals to a page can cause it to drop..."

What do you mean, should we not do internal linking? When is it too many? In a site of 1000 pages, if a page gathers 30 internal links is it too much?

I have seen a competitor that has links for 5 products repeating on every single page of his site and for these 5 products he plays really well, 3rd-4th position on google. (He must have more 200 pages pointing to these 5 products. With the same anchor text of course!).

zaneta




msg:3659797
 12:03 pm on May 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

Also: how much time do you think has to pass before i send all 301 redirects to the new pages? It has been more than 3 months since i redirected some pages - do you think it is high time i change the links to show directly to the new pages?

steveb




msg:3661329
 9:18 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

It sounds like you need more interanl links, not less. With a 1000 page site you nver have to worry about related "too many links".

You should change the link URL as soon as Google has removed the old URL from its index and is listing the new one. leave the 301 in htaccess tho.

blackmax




msg:3661350
 9:50 pm on May 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

Zaneta,

Do your internal pages have external links pointing them?

zaneta




msg:3661631
 8:08 am on May 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

Yes many pages internal pages have external links

pageoneresults




msg:3661634
 8:11 am on May 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

Instead of looking at internal factors, what about external factors? Have you noticed an increase in the number of scrapings? Is your content regurgitated out there on other domains? Is it possible someone is sabotaging you externally? What type of external link activities? Paid links?

Just do a search for example.com to find all references for your domain and start looking at them.

zaneta




msg:3661661
 9:19 am on May 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

Pageonresults

No, fortunatelly we havent noticed that someone have stolen our content.

Although, one of our competitors has two sites that not only are similar but for ALL product pages they have copy-pasted the text. So it's basically two exact same sites - and i dont exaggerate when i say that both sites play really well for all the duplicate product-pages!

Are we blacklisted, is there a way to know ? Our homepage plays top 10 for the general products keyword, while internal pages with specific products are doing worse and turning from 3PR to greybar.

pageoneresults




msg:3661675
 9:25 am on May 29, 2008 (gmt 0)

No, fortunatelly we havent noticed that someone have stolen our content.

That would be just one concern. Again, do a search just for your domain...

"example.com"

And review the references you find. There could be hundreds of thousands of them. The thing is, you'd want to know what that statistic was a year ago prior to the decline. One of the things that seems common amongst this type of situation is that the targeted domain ends up with a lot of junk inbound links and references on obscure domains. Its all part of me "Tin Hat" competitive sabotage theory.

If you are in a competitive space, these days I'd be willing to put money on something to this effect. There are external factors at play here and to find them without knowing what the factors were a year ago makes it somewhat difficult.

Our homepage plays top 10 for the general products keyword, while internal pages with specific products are doing worse and turning from 3PR to greybar.

There are reasons for that. And, there are many factors that can contribute to the overall degrading of your website in the SERPs.

Have you thought about the...

Review My Site
[webmasterworld.com...]

...forum yet? Maybe get some more eyes on it to determine what may be going on?

Robert Charlton




msg:3663492
 6:31 am on May 31, 2008 (gmt 0)

What do you mean, should we not do internal linking? When is it too many? In a site of 1000 pages, if a page gathers 30 internal links is it too much?

zaneta - Sorry if my wording wasn't clear. I didn't mean too many links. I meant too much repetition of keywords in your links.

Eg, if you have a site about widgets, this kind of link menu, with widgets in every link, might create problems for you...

red widgets
green widgets
blue widgets
yellow widgets
white widgets
black widgets
little widgets
big widgets

There are lots of other ways you can have excessive repetition without having too many links.

I'd recommend that you do some reading on the minus 950 threads in the Google Search forum. If your rankings are steadily dropping on internal pages, onpage over-optimization, in combination with backlinks that aren't very high quality, could well be the cause of the problem.

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