homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Pubcon Platinum Sponsor 2014
Home / Forums Index / Google / Google SEO News and Discussion
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: Robert Charlton & aakk9999 & brotherhood of lan & goodroi

Google SEO News and Discussion Forum

This 147 message thread spans 5 pages: < < 147 ( 1 2 3 [4] 5 > >     
April 2008 Google SERP Changes - part 3

 1:21 pm on Apr 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

< continued from [webmasterworld.com...] >

I have a UK site and its been hit hard. 90 percent of my top listing pages have been thrown back by 6 or 7 pages.

FWIW I think that what we are seeing is a new update cycle. Things settled down last week, then I saw one DC change then that started to spread, eventually hitting all DCs.

Then this morning <using an online tool> there was a new set of relatively minor changes but a few much bigger changes on .co.uk. There are clearly two different sets of data being served to .co.uk or they are split testing a new geo filter.

I would sit tight for a while, it might well be that you come back as things settle. Is your traffic suffering? Maybe other folks are seeing your old positions.



[edited by: tedster at 3:54 pm (utc) on April 22, 2008]



 6:44 am on Apr 26, 2008 (gmt 0)

The Dcs look very calm this Saturday morning. Seems like a rollback has taken place!


 7:49 am on Apr 26, 2008 (gmt 0)

Odd how its the big $ adwords phrases that are affected.

It's not odd at all, since the big adwords phrases that are affected are the same core money terms that SEO's research and target, and that Google is well aware of.

I was trying to be ironic!

There's always a #1 and for the term I'm talking about whatever Google is trying to do is failing to put the right page in that slot. The site that is now at #1 bought its way there, it even has a link on every page back to the SEO that bought the links for them.

It's a small market but Google is giving that guy $500 margin a day.




 7:58 am on Apr 26, 2008 (gmt 0)

The Dcs look very calm this Saturday morning. Seems like a rollback has taken place!

Well I'm seeing two distinct sets of results.

For example: and have one set and and have another on a range of commercial terms that I watch. All other DCs look the same as one or the other of these two types.

For less commercial terms, like the name of my village, the DCs seem to have the same results on them all.




 1:01 pm on Apr 26, 2008 (gmt 0)

these results appear like about 10 days ago.

and still #3 place has a different result

I pity real searchers using these results because they change so much all the time - it's just awful


 1:58 pm on Apr 26, 2008 (gmt 0)

The UK filter just changed and for a raft of terms where we were #1 on google.com and .co.uk we have dropped UK rank while staying at #1 across all DCs on .com. Very strange.




 8:13 pm on Apr 26, 2008 (gmt 0)

Hi Folks,

During "Google SERP Changes" threads, you might have noticed few terms which are mentioned several times:

- Data Push
- Data Refresh
- Shuffling
- Tweaking

Matt Cutts graciously explained, on his blog, few things about the said terms, which you might find interesting:

Q: Whats the difference between data push and data refresh?

Matt Cutts [mattcutts.com]: ... they’re pretty close. A data push is a superset of a data refresh (that is, a data refresh is an instance of a data push). Typically a data refresh is something with a well-established history, e.g. we have automatic tests in place and the data to be sent out is sent out automatically (assuming that all the automatic sanity checks pass). A data push may tend to be less automated and thus may undergo more evaluation. But the terms are often used interchangeably by Googlers, because we know what we mean, so you’re pressing for a pretty fine connotation.

Q: Whats the difference between “reshuffling” and “tweaking” that might happen at the data centers?

Matt Cutts [mattcutts.com]: ... there is a difference between e.g. data pushes vs. algorithm updates, but really there’s not a difference between shuffling vs. tweaking. To me, shuffling would imply more the normal fluctuation of automated processes, while tweaking implies a little more direct intervention.


 9:53 pm on Apr 26, 2008 (gmt 0)

In layman's terms, please...


 11:03 pm on Apr 26, 2008 (gmt 0)

Try this:



 2:32 pm on Apr 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

I see 72.14.207.** on the move again for one of the sectors I watch. Depending on the sector(s) you watch, you might notice the movements. Don't think all sectors are equally affected.


 5:49 pm on Apr 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

HI all, new here.

I am assuming Dewey is over (I actually hope it isn't) I lost about half of my URL in the SERPS when this all started and none of them came back as of yet. I have gone form 20000 unique a day to 400- 500. I have been through this before and know to just ride it out ( along with a good case of Scotch), but something just does not seem right this time. I have a really bad feeling about my URLS that have gone MIA. I have received NO messages as to whether or not these pages violated the guidelines, I have put in a reinclusion request with NO response, I have reported the issues though the proper channels (at least I think so) and have gotten ZERO communication back from Google. Usually I get some type of response as to what the issue is and this time nothing. The lack of communication this time is what really has me concerned. Maybe it will come back and maybe it won't - only time will tell now, but in the meantime I think in order to ride it out,, I am going to start looking into optimizing for the 100's of other sites out there instead of just worrying about Google. I am sure by doing this I can get a majority of the traffic back though multiple sites rather than just one - All of them combined will easily exceed the traffic I got from just Google. I have been through this enough and at this point enough is enough, I am done relying on Google for traffic especially with the lack of communication now.


 5:53 pm on Apr 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

I thought Dewey was over yesterday but today it's all moved again. What a roller coaster ride!


 5:56 pm on Apr 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

I vtepes, I am in a very similar situation.


 7:25 pm on Apr 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

I think the specific event that we called "Dewey" is over and gone. But Google continues, as always, to tweak and change and adapt. 450 algo changes were rolled out last year - more than one a day. So we can't look for stability.

Ever since the position #6 bug hit, I'm convinced that one long term goal is what the Google spokepeople have called "diversity" or "serendipity". I think we'll continue to see volatile SERPs in some areas for a ong time because of this.


 7:45 pm on Apr 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

:-) - Good luck potentialGeek..Once you get a job there will you forget about us lowlife webmasters or would you be so kind to share with us some REAL answers?

I have not been able to determine what is going on either but at this point I am just kicking back with a good case of Scotch to drowned my panic attacks and ride it out. Expect the worst and hope for the best


 8:28 pm on Apr 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

Dewey may be over, but Google is struggling with some basic stuff that I haven't seen in a long while.

1. Same site under multiple domain names - Where's the problem with dup content? I have seen the same site with as many as 4 domain names, and variations of the www/non-www versions to boot.

2. ROS links - I am looking at one right now with nearly 40,000 links coming from two really poor "directories". Linked small font periods and white on white .gifs at the bottom of every page.

It looks to me like G is trying to assign link juice from the multiple domains to a single domain, but with mixed results. Thus, I see the same site in top 10 under one domain, and again on page two under a different domain. The failure to deal with dup content appears to be a real problem right now.

I have not a clue why ROS links, especially such spammy ones as white on white gif footer links, are allowing garbage to rise to the top. It's been years since I have seen this type of game produce results.

Where once there was arbitage, we now have garbitage :(


 9:04 pm on Apr 27, 2008 (gmt 0)


Usually I get some type of response as to what the issue is and this time nothing. The lack of communication this time is what really has me concerned.

May be the reason of lack of communication is your site has been hit by algo tweaking. Wait and see. Things might change ;-)


 9:17 pm on Apr 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

I see wikipedia being demoted in my sector


 11:56 pm on Apr 27, 2008 (gmt 0)

I see wikipedia being demoted in my sector

Wiki's still holding its own in a few sectors I'm interested in.


 12:08 am on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)


If it got hit by algo tweaking all I can do is wait and see...and after about a month then its back to playing around to see what Google wants now...I don't mind the tweaking as long as I know what the parameters are in order to match their tweaks - and that is like finding a needle in a haystack. I got nailed with the 950 but it bounced back in a few weeks.. this time I am not even sure what to look for - kinda like SEO in the dark without a keyboard :-)

The trusty old Scotch is getting me though though so no worries - I'll sober up when it's over (Maybe)


 2:13 am on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

How does one know if you are hit by 950 penalty? Is there a way to check if you are nailed by that penalty?


 2:32 am on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

How does one know if you are hit by 950 penalty?

In my case 90% of my Google traffic and a similar amount of my revenue stopped abruptly one day at midnight Pacific time. All my pages are getting traffic proportional to pre-penalty days, just 90% less.

It isn't subtle at all. It happened once before in an almost identical fashion and lasted for 18 days, this time it is 124 days and counting.


 3:11 am on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

The 950 Penalty will just nail you with NO warning just like OnlyToday said. You will wake up one morning and *POOF* all traffic and revenue is gone and you will be WAY down on the SERPs, right around 950 as the name implies. When I got nailed with it it was about 2 weeks (OnlyToday was at 18 days) so I would say on the norm the first time around you are looking at 2-3 weeks of pain and suffering. However if you are seeing no movement after 124 days ( I truly sympathize with you OnlyToday)then maybe it is time to think in terms of hari kari -- j/k - seriously though if you get hit a second time more than likely it stays in place a lot longer and there is very little than can be done it appears.

Been watching the DCs today and my results are just bouncing all over the place and of course the one URL I want to come back is nowhere to be found (if I do a search for the exact URL I get the infamous 1-9 of 5 gazillion results, but only shows 9 even if I include the "omitted results") This drives me INSANE for no real good reason other than I know it's counting my URL that I want to show but it is FLAGGED for some reason :(


 6:41 am on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

Hi you all,

We have a second level domain .com.ar (From Argentina) and this changes hit us pretty hard. On friday april 18th we started to notice some changes we los about 30% of our traffic from one day to another, and last saturday we lost another 35, so now we have 35% of our original traffic. We are pretty concerned about this cause we are a company that actually lives from the profit of advertising, actually adsense is the 25% of our income but this is putting us in an awful position.

What ié been noticing that the loss is in out forums traffic, actually our news, reviews, and previews website is having better serp and gaining visits;maybe this got something to do with rewrite tools or something like that.


 1:16 pm on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

How does one know if you are hit by 950 penalty?

If you have a good site with no duplicate pages then just sit tight.

If you have more than one site on the same subject investgation may be required. I have had this happen to several sites and I had to work through them and found some unintended duplicate pages. The kind of pages one uses for testing and then forget to remove!

Every site has recovered after deleting the culprits.

Interestingly I have had one authority trade supply site 950'd for the past month and have just left it alone knowing there was nothing wrong with it. This past week it started moving from the last SERPs result, yep the last result, and today is back to #3. I do not expect it to get any higher since the authority trade widget directory site is at #1 & indented #2 and deservedly so.

The longest I have experienced with a 950 penalty was 20th December 2006 to 9th April 2007 inclusive, a total of 110 days.


 2:12 pm on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

Thought I'd share the results from studies on my own sites showing that it is internal linking that has been devalued. Less power is being shifted within a site for the majority of results sets we've seen (all commercial searches). e.g. a site that used to have PR4 inner pages due to thousands of links to their main page are no longer seeing those inner pages ranking unless they have their own external links. Some pages are being removed from the index if they have zero external links.

This is only for regular sites. Authorities (e.g. news sites, regulatory bodies, wikipedia etc.) in each industry seem to have received MORE internal linking power.

Our studies are for the UK sites we manage based on Google.co.uk results. We have not seen the same change for Google.com searches and US sites we manage.


 2:41 pm on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

internetheaven , thanks for sharing.
when you say external links do you mean IBL's or OBL's ?


 3:12 pm on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

@internetheaven - isn't that the same as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, how does that help?


 9:15 pm on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

when you say external links do you mean IBL's or OBL's ?

Sorry, inbounds.

isn't that the same as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, how does that help?

Not at all, unless you mean link-rich, not money-rich? Seems to be targetting bad SEO work. Naff SEO's will generally only get links to your root address and then hope that the link juice will spread throughout your site (1000 directory submissions sort of thing!). Which generally worked before this update.

It's a good move in my opinion, but sadly they seem to have removed other filters like:

- interlinking sites all owned by one guy on one IP with no other inbounds
- article and blog spam links

which means the new results are still bad ... bad for users that is, I'm sure their bottom line is growing by the second with these results. All the "rich" companies are being forced out of the top 10 naturals and onto Adwords.


 9:37 pm on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

so is anyone winning in this update?


 10:44 pm on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

"so is anyone winning in this update? "

Define "winning."

Results in my niche are changing constantly. I have phrases that rank #3 to #5 go to #9 or even #13, then back to #5, then to #3, then to #8, all in a matter of hours. One phrase, which was at #9, has now disappeared completely.

It still looks like Google is giving lesser-ranking sites a shot at the first page for a certain length of time, then giving other lesser-ranking sites a shot, etc. The established sites, while remaining on the first page, are bouncing around like crazy.


 11:44 pm on Apr 28, 2008 (gmt 0)

Me, too. I was #12 a day or two ago, but #5 today, oops, *the last time I looked* (one minute ago).

Welcome to the Google Top 10 Shuffle.TM


This 147 message thread spans 5 pages: < < 147 ( 1 2 3 [4] 5 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google SEO News and Discussion
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved