| 8:27 pm on Mar 21, 2008 (gmt 0)|
if they've developed all these hundreds of blog sites themselves then it's possible that google might never pick it up.
if they've done their homework then all the blogs will be hosted in different places with disimilar Whois details. if they've all got different content as well, all related to the main site, then they are laughing.
how is google ever going to know?
| 8:40 pm on Mar 21, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Are they spamming comments or making posts? You can pay per post to get links to your site. If it is comment spam then most blogs are no follow these days. Get a FF plugin and it will highlight if no follow or not.
| 8:43 pm on Mar 21, 2008 (gmt 0)|
"Since they are getting all this free traffic, they are selling their products at say on 40 markup instead of the 80% which is common for this industry. "
That is a sad way of dealing with the competition. Stop crying start working out how to get above them. All part of the game.
| 2:39 am on Mar 22, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Im not worried about it.
Our business model is based on providing quality content and developing trust, to rank high in the search engines, and we have been around 10 years.
I was just surprized that somebody could game google so easy these days and go from nowhere to a major player in 3 months. You would think, going from PR0 to PR7 in three months would set off alarm bells for google.
I just wonder if I should submit a spam report to google, or just wait for an algo change to finish them.
Oh yeah, all the blogs that he has created has the same whois information, so its definitely an amateur.
| 11:43 am on Mar 22, 2008 (gmt 0)|
I'm not sure I'd call creating 100s of blogs (or sites for that matter) spam. I have a few myself on related subjects to my main site that link back to it, all are useful (to users) in a somewhat different way. The problem is, where do you draw the line between what is legitimate and going too far. Frankly I can't see an individual at Google spam team being bothered to think about this, its all too grey area.
I've submitted spam reports on really blatant hidden text, even in noscript areas and they have done nothing about it so what hope have you with something that might be legit?
| 12:46 pm on Mar 22, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|I just wonder if I should submit a spam report to google, or just wait for an algo change to finish them. |
Watch it, it is an interesting case study.
|Oh yeah, all the blogs that he has created has the same whois information, so its definitely an amateur. |
So they probably do not have to hide anything. Myself, I prefer partners on the web with transparent and trueful information.
By the way, remember that your posts also say a lot about yourself, your totally white hat website, your 10 year building of trust etc.
| 2:21 pm on Mar 22, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Good point, about the case study.
We are well diversified, and they can't really hurt us, so
I think I will just watch them, and see what happens.
| 2:52 pm on Mar 22, 2008 (gmt 0)|
>>>>I was just surprized that somebody could game google so easy these days and go from nowhere to a major player in 3 months. You would think, going from PR0 to PR7 in three months would set off alarm bells for google.
You'd think. You'd be wrong :). I am also amazed to see someone dump loads of money on clearly garbage links and walk up the serps. I worry I'm too aggressive sometimes on my main site with link development, then I look at that and think what am I worried about?
>>>>I just wonder if I should submit a spam report to google, or just wait for an algo change to finish them.
Actually you should do neither of those. The proper response is to set up a second site and do the same thing as they are. Nothing wrong with building a long term site for business, nothing wrong with augmenting that business by using secondary sites that are less long term. (it's worth noting though, that these short term sites sometimes stick around for an awful long time. It's not like they pop up and are gone a month later because of a spam report. Doesn't work that way).
| 3:28 pm on Mar 22, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|going from PR0 to PR7 in three months would set off alarm bells for google. |
The odd thing is that Google mentions something like this in a patent -- actually the patent mentions monitoring for a rapid rise in the SERPs, not specifically in PR. I've been waiting for that particular technology to kick in, but I haven't really noticed it so far. Maybe it is in play but just kicks the domain out for human editorial inspection.
| 5:11 pm on Mar 22, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Well in theory, a site can go from from PR0 to PR7 in 3 months with 1 good link. Mine went from 0 to 7 in a flash thanks to DMOZ a few years ago. One link is really all it takes.
| 8:52 am on Mar 23, 2008 (gmt 0)|
".....I was just surprized that somebody could game google so easy these days and go from nowhere to a major player in 3 months....."
If your competitor's blogs are cut and paste jobs or full of scraped content then that's definitely spam. Hoewever if each blog has unique content arguably the sites are providing a useful resource. Creating hundreds of blogs with unique content is not easy.
| 9:19 am on Mar 23, 2008 (gmt 0)|
It is not about playing by the rules these days. If you are in a competitive area absoultely everyone is gaming it with bought, spammed, engineered links. Remeber it is about marketing and making money for you, not following google's guidelines. No one respects google's ideas about teh net anymore. As wheel said, make a second site and do what they are doing because if you do not you will be left standing there whilst all the other competitors start copying this new guy's techniques.
| 12:07 pm on Mar 23, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Once enough people copies this persons technique, Google will take notice, and suddenly one day the second black hat site is buried in the serps or banned forever, along with the rest of the black hatters. All the work and effort that has been put into gaming Google will have been wasted.
It has happened countless times in the past.
The competitor's blogs is a cut and paste job of total crap, with virtually zero useful content. Someday this will catch up with them.
You can't be good and evil at the same time. Content is still king, and will always win, at the end of the day.
| 12:15 pm on Mar 23, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Sounds like spam blogs indeed. Are they all on separate domain names? or free hosted on blogger and such? Do they all stay active? yes, I'm curious on how they pulled it off ;)
| 12:18 pm on Mar 23, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Links and content are king, not just content. Content without links is page 100 territory. You obviously need to look around a bit more at eveyones backlinks. Very few people play by the rules these days and there is little chance this guy will get what you are wishing him. You only wish him bad because he is above you in the serps. I think he is a probably better marketer than you at the end of the day if you have to resort to grassing him up on a spam report. That is petty and 99.9% of time will not work anyway.
| 3:15 pm on Mar 23, 2008 (gmt 0)|
If you're waiting for the shoe to drop from Google, you will be waiting a very long time. If you think these sites are going away next month or are going to get 'banned', you're likely going to be frustrated.
I tried something shady a few years ago. That site while it doesn't rank so much anymore, never got banned. And it's still profitable enough to keep around even today. And in three months, I made a pretty good sum of money. Worse, I should have tried it six months earlier.
And why did a mostly white hat like me do that? To try it out mostly - not even for money (which was damn good for a while. And guess what - when the site tanked, I still had that money in the bank). But what I learned was that stuff like this works. And variations on this stuff continue to work. And I learned that waiting for Google to clean it up is futile - not going to happen. Once you realize that it works, continues to work, and Google's not going to act as judge and jury for you, then you can decide what you're going to do. Accept it, or try it yourself. But waiting for these sites to go away is just going to raise your blood pressure.
Given Google's increased animosity towards any type of SEO these days, not even our beloved white hat techniques are safe. I did stuff years ago that was pure white - and is now considered greyhat. We need to stop looking at white hat as good and black hat as bad. White hat techniques are just building for longer term rankings, grey hat techniques are for building for shorter (1 year timeframe) term rankings.
Plus doing one certainly doesn't prevent you from taking advantage of the other. In fact, one would wonder why anyone is leaving an easy marketing route like that untouched. In any other business you'd be fired for not taking advantage of easy marketing opportunities that are proven to work - try going to the boss and saying something like 'but it's against some other company's guidelines (which we never agreed to and aren't bound by)', or 'it's only for the short term', or 'I want the web to be a better place'.
| 5:26 am on Mar 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|That is a sad way of dealing with the competition. Stop crying start working out how to get above them. All part of the game. |
Denouncing unethical marketers to google is also part of the game, so why leave that part out? It could be a crucial tool against your competition.
|I think he is a probably better marketer than you at the end of the day if you have to resort to grassing him up on a spam report. That is petty and 99.9% of time will not work anyway. |
So it would be petty to report them, but not create hundreds of spam blogs polluting the web and irritating users?
lgn1 is entitled to use the tools at his disposal, just as much as you think the spammers are entitled to spamming. Even much more so since lgn1 would actually help make the web a better place.
I hope you crush them lgn1 :P
| 3:42 pm on Mar 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|You can't be good and evil at the same time. Content is still king, and will always win, at the end of the day. |
Funny:) Content may win in the 24th hour of the day but if the other 23 hours of the day make money for me (as in blackhat) I'm down with that anytime ... of that day when content rules. Don't rely too much on this old lame cliche: Content is King. You'll be sorry ... at the end of the day when you'll understand that Links are Queens and Kings do what them wives say.
This kind of grayhat tricks (link farms) will not actually affect the linked domain too much when they are discovered. It's all a matter of doubt. Who set the link farms up ... they did or the competition? So Google will just remove link juice from those links (If they'll ever do) and the farmers will start over a new crop.
PS: It's war my friend ... you and Google ain't Allies. Waiting for an algorythmic change to rule out such light grayhat techniques or reporting them is a life wasted. Unless the violations are blatantly visible they won't move a finger. Maybe your comptetitors' main site is quite good.
| 4:22 pm on Mar 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|Does blog spam still work in 2008? |
Yes. 100% effective.
|Stop crying start working out how to get above them. All part of the game. |
If the internet is a game then it should have rules. All games have rules, all business has rules. You seem to be singing a very different tune to the general feel that spamming and black-SEO methods are bad? Most people curse spammers, why are you of a different mind?
|I was just surprized that somebody could game google so easy these days |
It gets easier and easier each year as more money is spent on monetizing Google and expanding it's service/product base than acheiving better quality search results.
|I'm not sure I'd call creating 100s of blogs (or sites for that matter) spam. |
I'm pretty sure that this company will not have created unique, interesting and useable content for these 100s of blogs. So far every blog spamming attempt I've seen tends to use snippets of other people's sites.
It doesn't help that Blog sites, especially Blogger.com, refuse to deal with spam. I reported someone who has stolen one of our articles and placed it at:
with a back link to their site. They demanded I send in DCMA papers for all of them. They didn't care that the same article had been placed on 73 different usernames just for the purposes of link spam!
| 5:05 pm on Mar 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
... all rules are made to be bended / broken.
|All games have rules, all business has rules. |
I love that tune which does not sound like what all others sing. Makes me feel special.
|You seem to be singing a very different tune to the general feel that spamming and black-SEO methods are bad? |
| 5:10 pm on Mar 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
"Denouncing unethical marketers to google is also part of the game, so why leave that part out? It could be a crucial tool against your competition."
Sad tool for losers. It is about making money and learning from the people above you. I would never grass on anyone. It is like taking the ball home because you lost.
I respect all the people who get better serps than me by whatever technique is used. I see it as a positive (studying backlinks) not a negative.
| 7:08 pm on Mar 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
It seems to me the only real losers in this game would be someone who gets banned from google's results. Having a #2 position in the SERPs while staying white hat still makes you money.
All I'm understanding from your posts is that there is no "good or bad" in this game. Except for reporting a black hat site, for some reasons, this is "bad".
Sounds kind of arbitrary, a matter of your own personal preferences, or because you may feel personally vulnerable with that aspect.
You can't have it both ways. If there is no bad, there is no bad.
| 8:24 pm on Mar 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
There is no doubt about it, most black hat techniques work. But at the end of the day I want to be doing my job for the betterment of the world, not of my own pocketbook. I know there are few of us still out there that think that way, but I've kept my job doing only white hat things, developing good content and links -- I'll continue that.
As for the question of whether to report or not. Report it. Damn it, if you stand for truthful websites and content, then tell Google if someone is messing up. If they get to do deceitful things, then why can't we do them (since most of them think that reporting to Google is tattle-telling).
| 8:31 pm on Mar 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
I would go ahead and report them as spam--Duplicate sites is one of the features on Google's spam report and you can add more details in the additional details box (be sure and look for other black hat techniques they are using so your report will be more convincing).
| 8:37 pm on Mar 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|The proper response is to set up a second site and do the same thing as they are. |
Did you miss the "crash and burn" part?
| 8:46 pm on Mar 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|The proper response is to set up a second site and do the same thing as they are. |
Sounds like a great way to deal with SPAM!
| 9:05 pm on Mar 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
I don't see how what they are doing is spam if each of those blogs provides useful content.
I would agree Tedster, I don't see this in effect yet, I work with a new ... company and have been able to get page one results drastically quickly for some fairly tough terms in about 2 months.
[edited by: Robert_Charlton at 9:13 pm (utc) on Mar. 24, 2008]
[edit reason] edited specifics [/edit]
| 10:15 pm on Mar 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
why should you report:
it's quickly done; it may remove a competitor
why shouldn't you report:
it may messup the entire SERPs you live in, and push you down yourself a few spots (seen that a couple of times)
all other discussions are useless - "make the web a better place", "unethical", "SPAM", "useful content" ... whatever; is google paying you money for working for them? are they also a non-profit? - again: google is scraping content from our sites, they cannot make any REAL rules, but as most of us - like me - are corrupt and take the traffic, we try to play the game. the white hats are white for the profit; the black hats are black for the profit. Tell me the difference or show me the non-opportunistics.
| 1:37 am on Mar 25, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Spam of any kind, web or email, is irritating, if I can do little things to help counter it in any circumstances, I'll take the few seconds to do it. I flag bad blogs when I see them. I click on the report spam links when I see spam in youtube or imdb's comments. I used spamcop for a long time before I got too busy.
I use google a lot during the day and reporting spam is beneficial to both Google and me. It's a great company with great services.
Come and join my army of the willing! ;)
PS: I never liked cheaters and I just love it when they get caught.
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