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Effects of DMOZ removal
stevelibby




msg:3578865
 3:59 pm on Feb 19, 2008 (gmt 0)

One of my clients has recently been removed from dmoz and now not in the g directory and dobviously dmoz.
Over the past few months my client has been active in getting inbound links using random anchor text, now he ranked extremely well for a popular search terms relating to his industry, its appears that slowly he has dropped back for these good search terms.
Before i get stuck in and get my hands dirty, do you think that the dmoz removal could have had the biggest impact to the demise?

 

pageoneresults




msg:3578966
 5:36 pm on Feb 19, 2008 (gmt 0)

Before i get stuck in and get my hands dirty, do you think that the dmoz removal could have had the biggest impact to the demise?

It would be really difficult to pinpoint the exact cause here because you are doing other things that could also impact the results. If it was just the removal of the dmoz listing and you did nothing else since then, we might be able to say that yes, it was due to that removal.

Google and others use the dmoz data. When your listing goes AWOL from dmoz, it will have an impact somewhere down the line. But, it shouldn't have that much of an impact to drag you down too far in the SERPs. Maybe one or two spots but nothing dramatic. I'm going to say there are exceptions to the rule too. If you had multiple dmoz listings and they were removed, that might have a negative impact.

primal5




msg:3579033
 6:31 pm on Feb 19, 2008 (gmt 0)

Google highly respects DMOZ links. Being removed from DMOZ may affect newer websites that don't have a solid base of links. You may just want to find which category they were removed from and contact that editor. Every category has one or more editors you can contact. BE NICE!

stevelibby




msg:3579060
 6:45 pm on Feb 19, 2008 (gmt 0)

I know dmoz only to well, you wont see me talking them in a hurry. A law to themselves, but thats another story. Thi ssite is about 5 years old. How can i find out if any links that did link to the site that dont anymore? Is there a way?

pageoneresults




msg:3579108
 7:17 pm on Feb 19, 2008 (gmt 0)

How can i find out if any links that did link to the site that dont anymore? Is there a way?

Not that I'm aware of. Those links would have had to have been tracked from day one to see who is and who isn't linking. That's what people do with those "link development" programs. That is getting very granular with a link campaign. ;)

stevelibby




msg:3579120
 7:29 pm on Feb 19, 2008 (gmt 0)

i wanted to see if any major links have dropped off.

RichTC




msg:3579431
 10:50 pm on Feb 19, 2008 (gmt 0)

The dmoz removal on its own wouldnt imo make that much of a differance to your serps position but it is a loss of one of many small trust factors that helps your site.

You say that active link building has taken place, so we can deduce from your op that the link building is more active than it has been previously, again another small trust factor is in question

If the site has had any other additions or adjustments these may also be adding into the mix.

In all its hard to call without seeing all the facts, but my best guess is that its simply a case of a combination of factors raising a flag that has resulted in some loss of trust for now hence the mark down in the serps

All you can do is build on the sites quality from the users perspective and sit it out. Give the heavy link building a break but if you must continue this path seek more trusted authority links that can help restore some of your lost trust factor (remember that less is more!). This will take some time to fully recover.

Rich

[edited by: RichTC at 10:52 pm (utc) on Feb. 19, 2008]

Lorel




msg:3579653
 3:54 am on Feb 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

I have a client that is ranking #1 for several of his major keywords and his site disappeared from DMOZ over a year ago. We have written the editor of that category to no avail. His rank hasn't dropped any however, even though a competitor submitted his site and got him 10,000 more links.

julinho




msg:3579865
 11:14 am on Feb 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

How can i find out if any links that did link to the site that dont anymore? Is there a way?

Check out the logs.

Spot the referrers you would consider relevant, and check out whether the link still exists in the referring page.

Wlauzon




msg:3580237
 6:06 pm on Feb 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

5-10 years ago being in DMOZ might have had some effect.

But any more it is pretty much irrelevant. I can't see where a DMOZ listing would even affect a brand new site.

pageoneresults




msg:3580253
 6:19 pm on Feb 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

But any more it is pretty much irrelevant. I can't see where a DMOZ listing would even affect a brand new site.

I wouldn't give up on the "equity" an ODP link may have. The ODP data has been used (and abused) by many. Those that have established an authority status using an ODP feed are definitely of value. That listing goes a long way and has many legs attached to it. Don't think of it as just "one listing". No, I think there may be a bit more to it than that. And remember, Google updated its directory not long with a fresh ODP dump...

Google DIRECTORY Updated: 2007-08-18
[webmasterworld.com...]

That in itself leads me to believe that the data is being used and that a listing in the ODP does have some intrinsic value.

Yes, I am very familiar with all the hubbub surrounding the ODP. If you can't get listed the first time, try again. If it doesn't work second time around, you'll find there are plenty of other resources out there that present similar link equity. It really is a "Hit or Miss" type of thing with the ODP.

Gomvents




msg:3580280
 6:37 pm on Feb 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

DMOZ DO pass a lot of value however they are nearly impossible to get nowadays...

Bones




msg:3580299
 6:50 pm on Feb 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

Yes, I am very familiar with all the hubbub surrounding the ODP. If you can't get listed the first time, try again. If it doesn't work second time around, you'll find there are plenty of other resources out there that present similar link equity. It really is a "Hit or Miss" type of thing with the ODP.

Perseverance certainly helps.

I just got an ODP link for a site after about 14 months of waiting. Admittedly it's in a PR4 cat with quite a few sites listed, but hey-ho. Haven't seen any noticeable effects as yet, but here's hoping it shows some value...

bwnbwn




msg:3580450
 9:17 pm on Feb 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

I think it more of a why was he deleted from DMOZ as to the effect within the Google Algo.

It may be he was going down anyway for doing something he should not have been doing and has nothing to do with getting deleted from DMOZ.

wheel




msg:3580559
 11:22 pm on Feb 20, 2008 (gmt 0)

Just volunteer to edit whatever town or city that you live in. Clean up the category, add in all the relevant businesses in your city, remove the dead wood....and your business is located in that town so it's a fair enough addition to the category.

Or so I've been told.

annej




msg:3580663
 2:33 am on Feb 21, 2008 (gmt 0)


DMOZ is not that different than any link. If your client's site has thousands of inbound links including some with high PR than it won't make that much difference.

If their aren't that many inbounds than DMOZ is just one possible thing that might be the problem.

Wlauzon




msg:3580950
 9:55 am on Feb 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

...And remember, Google updated its directory not long with a fresh ODP dump...

Google DIRECTORY Updated: 2007-08-18...

Not sure I would call months ago "recent".

swa66




msg:3581094
 2:15 pm on Feb 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

Removal from DMOZ, one might start to think there might be a reason.
DMOZ has a few automated mechanisms that kick sites in the unreviewed category (and out of sight of the public), since they are clearly marked most editors know how to spot them and check up on the reason and correct it.

If a site changes content and becomes irrelevant for the DMOZ category, obviously then you've bigger problems as that'll apply to all your incoming links and you'll loose more of them.

Similarly trying to monetize a site too much might kick in review on DMOZ (e.g. affiliates -without own unique content-) are unlistable.

As for the comments that it's impossible to get it: that's not true at all. It might depend on the category and the type of site you are trying to get listed. You can always apply to become editor yourself and help complete the category within the guidelines. But you might find that many of those sites you tried to get listed just aren't pointed at the right category by submitters (changing it and finding the better category is not that easy if you're not into the subject matter), get overly commercial blurbs as description, putting of your enthusiasm to even visit the site to see what's actually on it. Also many submitted sites just are not appropriate for listing, and that includes some often tried affiliate sites.

pageoneresults




msg:3581147
 3:01 pm on Feb 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

Not sure I would call months ago "recent".

I would, considering the history of updates to the Google Directory.

While dmoz may have its flaws, it is an established directory that is used by many including Google. The ODP want us to think that it is next to impossible to get our sites listed, I kind of like their method of thinking. I'm sure they've cut down on the number of non-qualifying submissions they get on a daily basis. It also keeps them out of the limelight and allows them to continue to build the resource. I know, I know, there are particular categories that are rife with challenges. If you are attempting to submit to one of those categories, you should be prepared for the outcome. I know of particular categories that are dominated by groups of key players and I don't like it but I don't whine about it either, it gets me nowhere. As mentioned above, persistence across the board is key. The ODP is but one small part of the equation, without it, a site will do just fine. With it, a site may do that much better.

Please, let's not turn this into one of the usual ODP rant threads. This one is specific and deals with the effects of a dmoz removal and/or addition. "All of us" around here are "well aware" of the ongoing challenges within the dmoz infrastructure. With that many volunteer editors, the potential for abuse is always going to be there. Look at all the other top properties like Digg. Its all around us and part of doing business unfortunately. If you are targeting those industries that are likely to be part of these challenges, submit and move on. Come back 6, 9, 12 months later, no listing? Submit again and move on. Do you know an Editor? Ping them.

Tastatura




msg:3581166
 3:22 pm on Feb 21, 2008 (gmt 0)


...And remember, Google updated its directory not long with a fresh ODP dump...

Google DIRECTORY Updated: 2007-08-18...

Not sure I would call months ago "recent".

I know for sure that there was at least one more update of G directory on, or after, Dec 24 2007...

potentialgeek




msg:3581604
 10:01 pm on Feb 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

DMOZ spawns many IBLs from copycat directories. Unless these are dynamic and frequently updated, you could lose one DMOZ link but retain the other 4,999.

DMOZ listings got devalued by Google the day a memo crossed its senior engineer's desk showing corrupt webmasters who edited the directory were blocking competitors.

I have had a single word ranked in the top 5 for a very competitive industry without DMOZ listing. I seriously doubt its current value.

Why would Google weight one editor's opinion on DMOZ over the opinions of many webmasters?

I've been very happy in recent months to see a competing site which was run by a dmoz editor for my sector who had several interlinked (and dmoz-listed) sites finally smashed. He was #1 for several years but is now devastated.

One of my old dmoz sites may not get much SERP juice from dmoz but it's still listed at the top of a dmoz index and still sends over 1,000 new visitors/month.

p/g

Wlauzon




msg:3582391
 8:24 pm on Feb 22, 2008 (gmt 0)

There might be some small value (I question this also, but..) in the links.

However there is almost no value in the directory itself. There are many reasons - outdated and irrelevant listings, no quality control at all (and no way for users to rate links or sites), etc etc etc. It has all been hashed out here before.

We have 2 listings in DMOZ, been there for years (for 2 different sites). I just did a log search for past 3 months on the main one, and I see a grand total of 2 hits from DMOZ (compared to millions from the major SE's).

man in poland




msg:3582408
 8:44 pm on Feb 22, 2008 (gmt 0)

I think the general concensus is that, to all extents and purposes (SEO included) DMOZ is dead. Some years ago I flapped about trying to get a few sites included. In the end I managed to get two in there, but have developed several dozen niche sites since. I haven't bothered with DMOZ at all in the last 3 years, and it does not seem to have affected the rate at which new sites can get ranked. Basically, hard work does it, and (DMOZ or not) nothing else!

pageoneresults




msg:3582479
 10:44 pm on Feb 22, 2008 (gmt 0)

I think the general concensus is that, to all extents and purposes (SEO included) DMOZ is dead.

I'm not jumping ship just yet. There's a lot more to dmoz than is being discussed and I'll leave it at that. It's not going to go away or die. Before that happens, something else will happen to bring it back to life. Actually, it is alive, they are just playing dead. Its a marketing ploy. ;)

hutcheson




msg:3582534
 11:57 pm on Feb 22, 2008 (gmt 0)

My guess would be that DMOZ removal and Google rank change are not causally related, but that they are both effects of the same cause -- that is, on the website itself.

Either downtime, or ownership change, or drastic content change, or some other signal to the world that everyone might consider starting from scratch evaluating the site's reputation,(*) could have all sorts of ripple effects. Some of the effects you won't notice. Others, like Google or DMOZ, you might. Some of the effects seem to happen overnight; others may be delayed for awhile -- Google is obviously usually quicker than DMOZ, but not always. Some of the effects, you'll be able to figure out how THEY caught on. Some of them, you won't.

(*)Before the re-evaluation, obviously nobody KNOWS whether the site has improved or degenerated. So it's safest for their users to ... not make any recommendation until the re-evaluation takes effect.

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