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This 32 message thread spans 2 pages: 32 ( [1] 2 > >     
How to lower your ranking in Google
Bobby




msg:3568743
 5:20 pm on Feb 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

This may sound ludicrous to some, but how would you go about knocking your pages down little by little?
Without any obvious changes to Title tags or on page content, what is the best way to drop from the 1st page of SERPs to the 5th?

 

youfoundjake




msg:3568792
 6:05 pm on Feb 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

hidden stuffed keyword text?
link back to all the sites that link to you?
use robots.txt to block googlebot?

I really don't know, what an odd request?
I'm curious as to why you would want this?

rainborick




msg:3568804
 6:14 pm on Feb 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

The simplest and probably quickest methods would be to effectively remove significant content from the page, either by having it displayed via an external JavaScript file or through an <ifreame> that displays an HTML file with a "noindex" robots <meta> tag. This would leave the page unchanged for users, but make it very different for search engine robots.

Slowly starving the page of incoming links would be the other method, but it would be slow in many cases because it takes longer for a search engine to fully absorb a change in a page's link profile than it does to absorb a change in its content. This would have the advantage of being a bit easier to maintain some control over the drop, but either way will have some risk of incurring a deeper drop than you seem to want.

pageoneresults




msg:3568814
 6:18 pm on Feb 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

Submit your site to the plethora of link directories that are out there. In turn, be sure to link back to those directories and the exact page your listing appears on.

Include a /links/ directory on your site and "allow submissions" so that you can "grow" your directory. That should have the same effect as above and slowly drag your site down in the SERPs. Think of it as "dropping the ship's anchor".

I've seen this question come up many times before. They are always interesting. What exactly did you have in mind? Or, what's up your sleeve? ;)

[edited by: pageoneresults at 6:20 pm (utc) on Feb. 7, 2008]

Beachboy




msg:3568815
 6:19 pm on Feb 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

One of my important, lucrative sites, let's call it Big Daddy, has a Little Cousin, which has a different name and content and it's smaller. Little Cousin is a backup in case something bad happens to Big Daddy. Recently, I found Little Cousin was rising a bit too far toward the top for the same main keyword phrase for which I have Big Daddy tuned. I modified the title tag and some other things to push it back down in the rankings. I want it held in distant reserve for the time being.

Bobby




msg:3568972
 9:18 pm on Feb 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

Ah...just what I was hoping for, fresh ideas to work with.
Let's just say it's reverse engineering and power of deduction that drives the question here.

youfoundjake - I like your first 2 suggestions but the last one would knock the page (or site) out of the index completely.

rainborick - I think both approaches are valid techniques but if users have javascript disabled the page would immediately appear different.
I don't know how likely it is that a browser would not display an iframe though that too might cause problems if people are using older browsers.
I do know that a number of people have javascript disabled by looking at the stats.
Still, those are excellent ideas and just the type I was looking for.

pageoneresults - linking back to the link directories would require a significant amount of time and more than I have at my disposal unfortunately.
Additionally it might incur a penalty of some sort which would be hard to gauge. I'd rather not stir up the hornets' nest.

Beachboy - I want to avoid touching the title tags, what other things did you change?

Smark




msg:3568990
 9:35 pm on Feb 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

If you would like to make the the changes revesible I can suggest to hide some content and links on every page from Google with googleon/off tags.
The example: <!--googleon: all--> Text <!--googleoff: all-->
You can later remove these tags. All content will be added again.

These tags are Google specific. Other search engines will still index the whole content because they don't understand these tags. I don't know exactly if they have similiar SE specific tags.

You can use also use rel="nofollow" to hide some internal links and pages from search engines.

jtbell




msg:3569022
 10:04 pm on Feb 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

The simplest and probably quickest methods would be to effectively remove significant content from the page, either by having it displayed via an external JavaScript file or through an <ifreame> that displays an HTML file with a "noindex" robots <meta> tag.

Or make each page a single big image (GIF, JPEG, BMP) with links implemented via an image map.

bwnbwn




msg:3569045
 10:29 pm on Feb 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

Boy tough question reverse the engines.

I found it very helpful to reduce the SEO on my page.

So to tweak the page to drop the easiest and most reversable what I would try would be over SEO the page stuff the alt tags with repeated keywords, stuff the meta tag as well. Stuff Stuff Stuff

I would do one at the time to make sure Google doesn't throw ya into the 950 horror... and see what happens.

Maybe lets just say u target "Travel to China" and this is the pharse your wanting to hinder some. Put Travel To china over and over in the text and see what happens. If this doest't drop it add it to the alt tags and so on.. be sure they are linkes as well to interior pages.

Over SEO is about the best way to insure a drop that won't get ya banned....

glengara




msg:3569055
 10:39 pm on Feb 7, 2008 (gmt 0)

For no on-site changes and a gradual drop, it has to be done through losing anchor text IMO...

Beachboy




msg:3569454
 8:13 am on Feb 8, 2008 (gmt 0)

Bobby said: I want to avoid touching the title tags, what other things did you change?

I was just answering your question about whether anybody ever detuned a site. I saw that you didn't want to touch the title tag. I changed headline text also.

wilderness




msg:3569586
 12:27 pm on Feb 8, 2008 (gmt 0)

I recall two pages on my sites, which drew unwanted traffic.

1) was the same named as a war hero and the subject seemed part of annual class, my solution was to simply misspell a portion of the same name as the hero

2) another page attracted people oriented towards a particular group. The solution was to change some terminology with similar definitions although not as focused.

[edited by: Robert_Charlton at 8:15 pm (utc) on Feb. 8, 2008]
[edit reason] removed specifics [/edit]

JS_Harris




msg:3569659
 2:32 pm on Feb 8, 2008 (gmt 0)

simple answer - micro manage pagerank.

any page that needs "lowering" can be lowered by adding links leading to other pages on the site.

Question is, do you have pages that need "raising" too? If not feel free to send the PR my way :)

Lorel




msg:3570228
 3:09 am on Feb 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

Just overoptimize the content. then if you want the site to rank better then you can remove it.

Beachboy




msg:3570290
 7:07 am on Feb 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

I don't think intentionally incurring a penalty in order to reduce ranking is a very good idea. If the penalty is enhanced during that period of over-optimization, that site may not come back for a very long time...if at all.

internetheaven




msg:3570390
 2:07 pm on Feb 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

Without any obvious changes to Title tags or on page content,

I suspect that the reverse engineering the poster is trying to accomplish is to drop his competitor from 1 to 5. Question seems to be "if I don't have access to change the content or affect any of the changes you've suggested regarding uploading certain things, how do I drop the ranking of a top ranking SE result?"

If you want to hurt a competitor simply get 50+ links from adult websites pointing to them with some really adult terms in the linking text. They drop like a stone! ;)

Bewenched




msg:3570549
 8:30 pm on Feb 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

Not sure if webmaster tools really has an impact on rank, but you can set page level priorities in the sitesmaps.

Bobby




msg:3570678
 12:55 am on Feb 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

Smark - The "<!--googleon: all-->" and "<!--googleoff: all-->" tags are excellent, and something I had no idea existed, thanks.

jtbell - I've already implemented a bit of "image substitution" but if someone increases or decreases the font size in their browser then it sticks out like a sore thumb.

bwnbwn - keyword stuffing and similar penalty invoking techniques could be detrimental to the site's overall health, I prefer to simply take a few steps backwards while keeping the site clean.

glengara - losing anchor text is fine if you have control over external sites, though I'm sure it has value for internal links too. In this situation the internal anchor text does not apply.

Beachboy - changing headline text might be too obvious, but I have considered getting rid of <h1> tags.

JS_Harris - the idea of micro managing page rank is intriguing, the question is whether it really will knock the site down in the SERPs?

Lorel - how would you overoptimize?

internetheaven - just the opposite, I want my competitors to gain the upper hand (for now).
I DO have access to the content and can upload whatever I want, but I do not wish to engage in any tricks (links from adult sites etc.).
What I want is to simply find a way to slowly sink a bit, not like the Titanic mind you!

Bewenched - I do have a Google account and webmaster tools, I'll have to look into the sitemap deal and see if that can affect the site.

tedster




msg:3570690
 1:33 am on Feb 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

The googleon: and googleoff: tags control enterpirse indexing for the Google Search Appliance and the Google Mini. They do not have any affect on regular googlebot indexing.

pageoneresults




msg:3571010
 7:11 pm on Feb 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

just the opposite, I want my competitors to gain the upper hand (for now).

You do know that this flies in the face of everything we've learned around here, right? ;)

Think about this. Whatever you do now will take time to propogate. And, depending on what it is that you do, it may be somewhat difficult to undo. Why would you want to do something like this anyway, I don't see any viable reason other than to "experiment". Once you've gained the upper hand in the SERPs, you surely don't want to undo that, no, not at all. These days, having positions in those top 10 is like hitting the lottery.

None of this makes sense to me. ;)

Quadrille




msg:3571117
 10:55 pm on Feb 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

I'm with POR; although many of the 'tricks' proposed here are 'reversible', that is no guarantee things will go back how you want them. SERPS are living things, and other sites are changing too.

I'd think very carefully before throwing away something most people will spam for, sorry, kill for, sorry ... you know what I mean! ;)

Bobby




msg:3571323
 9:03 am on Feb 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

pageoneresults and Quadrille, I appreciate your concern and understand your curiosity but I know what I'm doing.

I do not wish for this thread to become an analysis of the pros and cons of deoptimization and its dangers, nor speculation on my motivation for doing so.
I simply want to elaborate on how best to do so in such a way as to simply drop down a few pages.

tedster - Are you suggesting that the on/off tags will have no effect whatsoever on normal results?
The idea of selective excluding certain words or themes is exactly what I'm looking for.

Vimes




msg:3571334
 10:09 am on Feb 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

Devaluing your strongest linked landing pages would be the easiest method either by bot file or noindex meta tag, hence starving the other pages with link power, easy fix to regain the SERP's when you wanted to as well.

Vimes.

Quadrille




msg:3571341
 10:21 am on Feb 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

I do not wish for this thread to become an analysis of the pros and cons of deoptimization and its dangers, nor speculation on my motivation for doing so.

I understand that, and I expect you are aware of the risks of what you are trying to achieve.

However, I am conscious that many people reading the thread may not necessarily be as advanced as you appear to be. If the thread does no more than you wish, I feel that some people may be misled.

I don't think a slight drift - hardly off topic - will harm your central point ;)

internetheaven




msg:3571350
 10:30 am on Feb 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

what is the best way to drop from the 1st page of SERPs to the 5th?

I think the aim itself is far too specific. There is absolutely no way that any of the ideas that could be thrown around in here could possibly get you on Page 5 "exactly". Was the 5th page just an example or is it exactly the fifth page you want to be on?

a_chameleon




msg:3571404
 1:03 pm on Feb 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

Submit your site to the plethora of link directories that are out there. In turn, be sure to link back to those directories and the exact page your listing appears on.
Include a /links/ directory on your site and "allow submissions" so that you can "grow" your directory. That should have the same effect as above and slowly drag your site down in the SERPs. Think of it as "dropping the ship's anchor".

Wow.. PageOne! The poor guy only wants to fade a little :) Drop the anchor - whew!


Quadrille




msg:3571521
 3:47 pm on Feb 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

I suspect that the reverse engineering the poster is trying to accomplish is to drop his competitor from 1 to 5. Question seems to be "if I don't have access to change the content or affect any of the changes you've suggested regarding uploading certain things, how do I drop the ranking of a top ranking SE result?"

I strongly suspect you are right.

Bobby - Please don't take this personally; I'm moving on from your request to make a wider, more general point, not directed at you, but for others who may be reading this thread.

If you want to hurt a competitor simply get 50+ links from adult websites pointing to them with some really adult terms in the linking text. They drop like a stone! ;)

But it's not likely to. If the competitors site is 'clean', and he's careful who he links TO, then 5000 bad incoming links won't hurt him.

Google does not hold you responsible for incoming links unless they are part of a link exchange scheme or similar.

I'm loosely paraphrasing because I've lost the links to Matt Cutts' quotation. You don't have to believe MC, of course - but no-one has actually demonstrated that he's lying (or suggested a motive!).

A 'small drop' could be to avoid alerting the victim to the subterfuge.

But all the techniques mentioned here (and several not mentioned so far) cannot be focussed so carefully, and will almost certainly fail - or (temporarily at least) cause major change in the serps, thus alerting the victim very quickly.

There are ways to attack a web site where you cannot 'reciprocate their links' or change 'on page content' (the clues are in the question).

But their success cannot be guaranteed, even after much hard work, and retribution can follow if the victim finds out what's occurring.

Even the Blackest of Black Knights, using their best (worst?) skills often fail (according to their confessions in the late, unlamented ThreadWatch), and they'd certainly not display their wares here in open forum.

ws3222877




msg:3571570
 4:44 pm on Feb 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

First thing i would do is see if I had any internal links to that page on the site that I could do without. And, change some links going to the page from text to graphic links. Then I would start changing the page to be more relevant to other keywords.

If I wanted to do it quickly I would move the page to a different URL and relink to it from the pages that it should have a link from. The old url would 404 out and the new URL would take a little time to get established. But doing that would throw away the PR and trust rank the page has earned. Maybe turn the old url into a site map too major categorizes would not hurt as much.

Adding links to the page, may or may not have the effect that you are looking for. If the pages that are being linked too have the same theme and keywords line up; it could end up being considered more relevant because it is getting a benefit from being an authority hub.

Lorel




msg:3571585
 5:09 pm on Feb 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

Re overoptimization-- just add too many major keywords to your home page text, alt tags, headers etc..(this incurs a filter). Nobody but Google knows where the threshold is that incurs this filter and it probably changes often so you'll have to experiment.

From all the articles I've read once you remove them the site bouces back after they are removed.

Also re competitors trying to tank your site by submitting your site to thousands of links--I suspect this is what occurred with a client of mine in 2006--he now has 23,000 + links where he used to have a couple hundred. Hasn't affected his rank at all in fact he's ranking #1 for several major keywords and we redesigned the website about a month ago, with new host and shopping cart without any wavering of keyword rank.

tedster




msg:3571662
 6:41 pm on Feb 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

Are you suggesting that the on/off tags will have no effect whatsoever on normal results?

Yes, exactly. The "power" of googleon: and googleoff: tags is confined to enterprises who purchase a Google Search Appliance or Mini and use it to crawl and index their own knowledge base.

This 32 message thread spans 2 pages: 32 ( [1] 2 > >
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