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Google Page Rank Update November 2007 - part 2
iowasmiles




msg:3493315
 4:14 am on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

< continued from: [webmasterworld.com...] >

I noticed a general drop in PR of most of my sites by 1, though some are up. The only way I can explain this is that the standards just got made tougher. I'm not complaining, because my flagship site, for its most competitive search term, just jumped from 6th in Google to #2, jumping over some very heavy-duty competition. This is a search term for which people are paying $5-10 per click with adwords, so it is very competitive. And the PR just dropped from 5 to 4. I think Google is placing less emphasis on PR.
It's clearly a major revision in their PR algorithm. I've noticed the heaviest effect on internal pages. I think Google isn't paying much as attention now to links from lower PR pages--those links have been devalued.

[edited by: tedster at 7:32 pm (utc) on Nov. 1, 2007]

 

makpie




msg:3493322
 4:49 am on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

"but it just dropped from a 7 to a 5"
I show another droping from 7 to 4, but still ranks on top positions with almost 90% empty content pages (now decreased to PR2).

potentialgeek




msg:3493346
 5:46 am on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

I think Google is placing less emphasis on PR. It's clearly a major revision in their PR algorithm.

Is its main purpose to scuttle link sales? Obviously if a site loses 1, 2, or 3 points, Google solved a paid-link problem neatly and quickly.

Those poor sellers will have to check their PR every morning to see if their ads are still accurate, lol!

Kudos to Matt for this idea.

p/g

dollarshort




msg:3493513
 1:18 pm on Nov 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Google is really out to lunch on this latest PR update, my best sites dropped a notch while sites that were closed and domains parked several months ago went up a notch. Obviosly something is broken at google.

Sean_Sloan




msg:3494224
 1:18 am on Nov 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

If this PageRank drop is truly about penalizing people who sell links on their site then why did my site go from 7 to 5 when I haven't sold a single link of any kind? Not that I haven't been approached but I always avoided them like the plague for just this kind of reason. I'd love to understand what on earth I'm being penalized for, if in fact its not just some tightening of the rules...

[edited by: tedster at 2:16 am (utc) on Nov. 2, 2007]
[edit reason] moved from another location [/edit]

netmeg




msg:3494665
 2:55 pm on Nov 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

Is it possible that some of your other backlinks could have been devalued?

ecmedia




msg:3494670
 2:56 pm on Nov 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

It seems that a lot of websites have lost rank even if they did not sell links. I have evidence of that. Some websites have maintained their rank despite selling links. I am not aware if link sellers have gone up in rank.

In my opinion it is simple an algo change rather than a penalty for selling links.

jakegotmail




msg:3494687
 3:08 pm on Nov 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

Is its main purpose to scuttle link sales? Obviously if a site loses 1, 2, or 3 points, Google solved a paid-link problem neatly and quickly.

If you think sites dropping 1-2 PR points will keep me from continuing to buy links on related, relevant sites then you are wrong.

If your buying links from sites just b/c they have a High PR then you have no idea what your doing.

PR is so overrated its not even funny.

Sean_Sloan




msg:3494728
 3:48 pm on Nov 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

I agree, PR is over-rated, as far as I can tell - but there is a perception problem and clients, even fairly knowledgable ones, seem to latch on to PR as some genuine indicator of skill and ability when it comes to SEO.

As far as devalued backlinks: yeah, I think that the aforementioned "footer links" may be the culprit as the majority of my backlinks are of that type. That discussion seems to be going back and forth as well.

This SEO thing the greatest moving, changing, challenging puzzle of all times, well, since maybe politics and intergender relationships.

mooperlee




msg:3494603
 1:41 pm on Nov 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

After this latest PR update I have one site that has PR4 on the homepage on and PR5 on most of the first level internal pages. Any ideas why this might be? I do have some deep links but not to the PR5 pages, it doesn't seem to make sense. I don't sell any text links.

[edited by: tedster at 4:15 pm (utc) on Nov. 2, 2007]
[edit reason] moved from another location [/edit]

derekwong28




msg:3496061
 2:05 pm on Nov 4, 2007 (gmt 0)

Although I have been heavily affected this time, the more I looked at this, the more it looks like the cumulative result of 2 updates rather than a drastic change in the algorithm. This does make sense because the previous update was 5 months ago in May 2007. Since the internal PR is updated continously and is exported when Google wants. What we are looking is 5 months worth of changes rather than the usual 3 months. Therefore one would expect bigger swings and more sites to be affected.

I am not disputing the fact that some large sites may have been manually downgraded, or that there has been an increased requirement in relevancy. But I do feel that that there had been much more exageration and fear going around than is justified by the results.

Simsi




msg:3496312
 11:47 pm on Nov 4, 2007 (gmt 0)

It seems logical to me that if Google penalised (or devalued) outbound links from paid link sites, then that could have a significant knock-on effect. Even if you don't buy or sell links yourself, if sites linking to you do, or even a step or two away from that, the negative impact could simply pass down the chain.

kamikaze Optimizer




msg:3496324
 12:29 am on Nov 5, 2007 (gmt 0)

It seems logical to me that if Google penalised (or devalued) outbound links from paid link sites, then that could have a significant knock-on effect. Even if you don't buy or sell links yourself, if sites linking to you do, or even a step or two away from that, the negative impact could simply pass down the chain.

Most of the sites that I saw buying links, did not link out anywhere.

beingaquatic




msg:3496075
 2:41 pm on Nov 4, 2007 (gmt 0)

well i always thought PR is given after considering quality links to your sites. i blogged about my college life since a year or so. i have no backlinks at all from anywhere. and in this oct. google dance, they gave me a PR 4. now can anybody explain this thing to me coz i've been trying like hell to get a PR 4 for my other blog which has sufficient amount of links and still G gave me a PR 2 this oct.
i guess they gave it for the originality of the posts i have. on my college blog i have 99 posts. and on the other i have about 60 posts. i didn't even know that my college diary has a PR 4. *stunned*

[edited by: tedster at 2:20 am (utc) on Nov. 5, 2007]
[edit reason] moved from another location [/edit]

skweb




msg:3500750
 4:25 pm on Nov 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

Apparently there has been another data push yesterday and several PR changes are being reported. There is no rhyme or reason to this update either and I have evidence that selling links is not the main reason for the change. I am actually shocked by both upgrades and downgrades because based on what we know today about PR it does not make sense.

sandpetra




msg:3500777
 4:32 pm on Nov 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

I don't think this is purley about link selling just simple, obvious SERP manipulation.

The only thing I did was keyword anchor rich link to other sites and we went from 7 to 5. Was I maipulating results? Yes. So I am going to clean the site up a bit but not ask for reconsideration.

As long as it's only PR that's affected and not rankings, then this will suffice.

Surely they will be killing TPR shortly anyway?

Sean_Sloan




msg:3500821
 5:06 pm on Nov 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

Hmmm, I too began doing "keyword anchor rich link" to my new client sites from my home page in the hopes, apparently misguided, of getting them spidered quickly.

Could I in fact be punished for linking to my legitimate web design clients? Seems extreme to say the least.

It's funny but on a related note I recently ran across the term "poison words" with the term "search" being used as an example. This is AFTER I started linking back to my site with "search engine optimization by" as the link. Am I totally blowing it and do I have some cleaning up/repair work to do?

Jeez, this "dance" seems silly, a dance on rice paper or eggshells, at a minimum...

glengara




msg:3500859
 5:48 pm on Nov 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

"I started linking back to my site with "search engine optimization by" as the link."

A lot of old-timers would see that as putting your clients to unnecessary risk.....

Sean_Sloan




msg:3500873
 6:15 pm on Nov 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

Please explain? I must admit to not understanding what risk I would be putting my clients in. I am perfectly willing to remedy it, there are only a few and it would take me little time. I am just wanting to understand the underlying principal so that I can avoid similar siituations going forward. Thanks.

Nuttakorn




msg:3500884
 6:24 pm on Nov 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

I have seen the pagerank data is not reliable when I search in each time , sometime it appear on 4 , sometime it is 0. I have checked from iwebtool that it shows from many datacenter. How about other people?

s_clay




msg:3500903
 6:53 pm on Nov 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

Please explain? I must admit to not understanding what risk I would be putting my clients in. I am perfectly willing to remedy it, there are only a few and it would take me little time. I am just wanting to understand the underlying principal so that I can avoid similar siituations going forward. Thanks.

I don't know about "poison" words, but unless that outgoing link on your client's site (to yours) is 100% relevant to the content on your client's site, then you are not doing them any favors. In fact, you may be hurting them.

Ask yourself this: Is the link there for your client's (and the visitors) benefit, or for your benefit? How does this link benefit the client and the visitor?

Sean_Sloan




msg:3500938
 7:38 pm on Nov 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

Ah, understood. The Rise of Relevance would indeed dictate this. I will ammend my transgressions.

I guess this harks back to the negative effect of "footer" links in the first half of this thread. Could a "footer link penalty" be part of this latest PR update/PR slide phenomenon?

Robert Charlton




msg:3500960
 8:02 pm on Nov 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

"I started linking back to my site with "search engine optimization by" as the link."

A lot of old-timers would see that as putting your clients to unnecessary risk.....

Let's not get off-topic by discussing the question of SEO client links per se, but below is a reference to a discussion on this topic...

Client links to SEO - Yay or Nay?
[webmasterworld.com...]

With regard to the subject of this thread... the PageRank update and what links might trigger a drop... I've seen Matt Cutts comment about not liking sponsored themes in WordPress. I haven't seen any official extension of this, though, to whether designer links, seo by links, etc, might be considered "paid," and, if so, who might they hurt... the linking site or the recipient site. It's not likely that designer links, eg, would hurt the linking site.

It's also not clear whether any penalties regarding the above might be reflected in Toolbar PageRank.

[edited by: Robert_Charlton at 8:12 pm (utc) on Nov. 9, 2007]

shallow




msg:3501033
 9:16 pm on Nov 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

I'm a site owner, not web developer, and most of what everyone is talking about is way over my head. I've heard of page rank but don't fully understand it.

The main thing I'd like to know is what the consequences, if any, of my site page rank dropping two points.

The only TextLink ads I have on my site are on the home page (I don't even know how to install them, I paid someone to do so).

Traffic to my site has been increasing nicely. Will that change now with the drop in rank?

I work very hard on my site writing content; I don't make a huge amount of money but it's a nice supplemental income for my husband and me.

I've been kind of depressed over this. Need I be?

Thanks SO very much for any insights or recommendations you can provide.

tedster




msg:3501039
 9:28 pm on Nov 9, 2007 (gmt 0)

I was once approached by a very large and well-known organization at a time when they had budget trouble. They asked for a heavily discounted rate for SEO work in exchange for backlinks in key places on their site, and said they knew of other companies with these kinds of arrangements.

If they know about others, then it's a good chance that Google does too - and that would be very much like paid link. Still, I doubt that Google would directly go after the majority of sites who give link credit for some kind of work done. That would get really crazy. Would it mean trouble for people who give links with photography credits? Sources for statistics or case studies used in articles?

I just can't see this kind of link causing PR trouble. Possibly the off-topic quality or the placement on the page might diminish the hoped-for power of the link, but that's about it as far as I anticipate.

(Side note, I did not make the deal I was offered.)

shallow




msg:3502411
 12:45 am on Nov 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

Is there any reason no one responded to my questions? Did I ask something wrong or in the wrong forum? I asked to get some help. Thank you.

tedster




msg:3502459
 2:11 am on Nov 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

Traffic to my site has been increasing nicely. Will that change now with the drop in rank?

No, do not be concerned about PageRank changes that you are just now seeing - especially if you did not already see a change in your traffic. This is only a change in the toolbar's report. Your real PageRank, which Google uses as only one factor to calculate search results, is not ever visible to you, but it is continually updated behind the scenes.

I've heard of page rank but don't fully understand it.

Here are some references that may help:

PageRank FAQs [webmasterworld.com]
Proposed: Google Should Stop Displaying Toolbar PR [webmasterworld.com]

webwannabee




msg:3502468
 2:21 am on Nov 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

I work very hard on my site writing content; I don't make a huge amount of money but it's a nice supplemental income for my husband and me.

I've been kind of depressed over this. Need I be?

------------------

Hey Shallow:

You have hit the SEO bull's eye - great content is what gets you to the top in the long haul. If you are writing good content in natural syntax
you are doing SEO without realizing it.

Don't worry about page rank - just keep adding quality content to your site and make sure your title tags are on target and you will be OK.

What happens is many of the the professional SEO gorillas use reactionary tactics to get to the top but every time there is an adjustment they get knocked out. But good content has staying power.

Trust me.

CainIV




msg:3502482
 2:54 am on Nov 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

I work very hard on my site writing content; I don't make a huge amount of money but it's a nice supplemental income for my husband and me.

I've been kind of depressed over this. Need I be?

I don't know, should you be? How much do you want to make? :P

If pagerank concerns you you might consider learning what it is, and there are tons of posts in WBW which talk extensively about what it is (and is not)

Schleppguy




msg:3502555
 6:22 am on Nov 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

Something I think that has been missed in this discussion is the fact that, based on how the PageRank algo works, the more pages that exist in the eyes of Google, the more the potential overall PageRank.

Most of us know that when one page links to another it passes a percentage of its PR on to that page however; it doesn't lose any PR. With the astonishing number of pages being created every day, the total PR grows with it. If Google's toolbar reflects the same scale in 5 years as it does today, we'll all have PR 10 webpages.

This 80 message thread spans 3 pages: 80 ( [1] 2 3 > >
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