All of our sites have dropped by 1 toolbar pr, these are old and very established sites and a couple have a million plus in backlinks.
Traffic hasnt changed and several sites around us have dropped as well.
My conclusions after doing this for 8 years.
Toolbar pr hasnt meant anything in over 3 years. While it may give someone a general idea of a sites prestige in terms of traffic sent via seo/sem it is one of the last factors to come into play and the toolbar pr you see is false anyhow.
Google has/is purposely delaying toolbar updates by upwards of a year and showing false positives when this export is completed. Google is knowingly creating confusion which she always has done but to a degree now I have never seen.
My suggestion, if you are concerned over the little green bar in any capacity, remove it. It means nothing and this whole thread is senseless.
My "older, established site" has gained a point on pages that have any PR at all calculated. However, I have been spending a considerable amount of time rebuilding the pages and making them as perfect as I am capable of doing. Unique meta descriptions and unique keywords are definitely paying off.
|It means nothing and this whole thread is senseless. |
As google obviously wishes to maintain the page rank green bar, it still remains one "metric" to guage how important a site is viewed by google in relation to the other sites on the net.
If a site is a PR9 you know its a very important "authority" site without looking at the sites content - Its this authority status that webmasters are aiming for.
But how can it really mean anything when I can whoop the ass of competitors now three points higher than me on TBPR, month after month, year after year.
Surely the SERPS reflect what google thinks are the authorities on whatever subject you happen to be searching?!
I mean, it comes down to this, would you want a link from a higher TBPR site or from the one at the top of your main keyword serps?
And, I still say with www.youtube.com and youtube.com at 3 means this cannot be correct.
I have already heard panic from bloggers I buy links from. So G' strategy about selling links works.
my sites went up across the board. a few went from pr4or5 to pr 6. a bunch went from pr0 to pr4-5.
|The toolbar values generally reflect where your site was two to five weeks ago. It isn't real-time, nor is it new. |
I think this too. But I have main page that was on page 7 of the SERPS over 4 months ago. Its PR was 5.
Four months ago, my site moved to page 1 of the SERPS (position 3) and my PR has dropped to 4.
|But how can it really mean anything when I can whoop the ass of competitors now three points higher than me on TBPR, month after month, year after year. |
Would have to agree with you. The value of page rank has certainly been devalued somewhat in the overall search algorythm over the last few years.
But, a PR8 site with a page off it about "blue widgets" should not automatically outrank say a PR6 site that has a more detailed page off it about "blue widgets" with more specific links to it and better content - thats the way it should be.
If PR was everything the same sites would rank for everything in their sector.
But, i still say PR is still a major factor, it certainly adds to the "Trust" factor of a site and google directory clearly lists sites in authority order acording to this metric.(ignoring the fact that the dase data for its directory is corrupted as its from a Third Party source)
In all, i do agree with your comment
Yes, Google PR updation has been completed.
[edited by: tedster at 2:30 pm (utc) on Oct. 27, 2007]
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I wouldn't say the update has been "completed"... They haven't designated the PageRank for sites that didn't exist at the time of the last PageRank update. A good example is the NY Times' City Room blog - still has no PR according to the toolbar, but obviously with 81,000 inlinks many of which are from www.nytimes.com - it has significant PageRank. Until the toolbar shows PageRank for sites like these the update isn't "complete".
[edited by: tedster at 2:30 pm (utc) on Oct. 27, 2007]
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Just to let you know that about less than 1 month ago I got a PR1 in one of my sites. Today, it has PR4.
Well, does this means that instead of taking long, it's taking less time to change?
What are your thoughts?
[edited by: tedster at 2:36 pm (utc) on Oct. 27, 2007]
[edit reason] moved from another location [/edit]
My site PR up from 5 to 6. mywebsite.com/blog upfrom Nil to PR5!
My homepage, up from 0 to 4 =)
I'm so pleased with myself.
|I have seen a lot of older established sites lose a point |
My site has a number of subsites and directories with their own index.html pages. The most important ones have dropped one point in the toolbar, but some of the minor ones have gained a point. Some of this may be due to changes in internal linking that took place months ago; there's no way to know. In any case, the PR6 pages that are now PR5 haven't taken a hit in the rankings, and pages beneath them don't appear to have slipped in the SERPs. Traffic looks normal so far.
Of course, it's important to remember that a drop from toobar PR6 to toolbar PR5 may merely be a drop from 6.01 to 5.99, and--as we all know--PR is just one of many factors in Google's search rankings.
Some of my sites have stayed the same, and some have dropped. But it is more or less what I expected.
The number of web sites are increasing daily, and so is quality. If an existing site doesn't improve then the new sites will push it down the ranking. You have to work on a site just to keep your PR these days. To increase PR gets harder and harder, especially for non-commercial sites without a sizeable budget.
The main problem I see is that low PR may help push pages into the supplemental index.
it is all about paid links and scaring small guys.
when I look at the real money SERPs I see everyone is buying links.
The real problem is that Google know the big names buy big links and they are unable to devalue the paid links.
Does anyone believe that reporting paid links to, for example, Marriott website or any other HUGE company would make any difference?
No, and that is the real problem for Google if they do not want to become another TV channel.
Don't freak out guys. This "update" is either a shakedown or very very incomplete.
Did you all miss the above poster's reference?
www.youtube.com <---- PR of 3
Decius, this update is complete. Actual PR may vary all the time, but the toolbar is updated periodically. What you see now is what you will see for some time to come.
My main site has stayed a PR 5. As it has been - for the last 5 years. I have one new site that was showing a PR of 0, now it's 3.
"Decius, this update is complete."
How do you know?
Apple is still showing a grey toolbar...
Obviously this has not propagated through all datacenters yet.... unless of course Big G is trying to tell Big A to watch out for their new Gphone ;>)
|If an existing site doesn't improve then the new sites will push it down the ranking. |
Maybe, but this has nothing to do with what's going on. Not sure why webmasters who are happy with their status with Google tend to try to suggest that those that complain are somehow slacking.
And if this is any indication, your joint suggestion that this PR is a natural result of degradation of sites that are being overtaken by newer better sites AND that the PR shift is complete, given that youtube.com has a PR of 3, clearly is nonesense.
Either the PR does not reflect anything legitimate this update and you're right about it being complete (and wrong about it being a reflection of content) OR it is incomplete and "may" be a reflection of content.
Either way presenting your points in a manner that is certain is misleading. Obviously you don't know whether the PR update is complete nor can you explain why youtube has a PR of 3.
So, the point still stands: This "update" is either a shakedown to really disrupt the reliance people have on the green bar OR it's incomplete and buggy yet.
No one has seen it yet :)
WebmasterWorld index was reading 8 yesterday, 7 today!
[edited by: henry0 at 5:37 pm (utc) on Oct. 27, 2007]
We have to be smarter, there's no logic, no system, no maths on this TBPR update. Google is just making a show to confuse us. Don't be happy if you have a bigger PR or sad if you have a lower PR. SER are the same and traffic are the same. I understand that google doesn't want to be another TV channel selling space, but he can't has lack of respect to freedom of webmasters about what to do with their own sites and links, want to be google a dictatorship?
My backlinks are all showing zero! Should I be worried. SERPS position is fine.
This is about Google's desire to sell more Adwords and its laughable desire to be the only real solution for advertisers when it comes to Internet marketing. They have done a shakeup like this in the last 2 Christmas seasons as well. The only difference was they messed with the rankings in the last 2 seasons, this year, its purely targeted to the Internet marketing community, webmasters that make money off pagerank. That is why they started their attack in early October, where in the last 2 Christmas seasons, things were shaken up in mid-November.
The way to fight back is encourage your clients to login to their adwords accounts and lower their budgets by 20%. To make up for this traffic, advise them to buy more ads with different keywords from Yahoo and MSN. If everyone does this, the tyrants at G-plex will feel the negative backlash and take a few steps back off their attack against webmasters.
|The number of web sites are increasing daily, and so is quality. If an existing site doesn't improve then the new sites will push it down the ranking. You have to work on a site just to keep your PR these days. |
I'd maintain that the number of Web sites in increasing daily, but the average quality of those Web sites is declining because so many pages are computer-generated, consist of editorially questionable user-contributed content, etc. But in any case, SERP rankings and PageRank are two different things. As any number of members have pointed out, the toolbar PR changes aren't necessarily reflected in search rankings (even for competitive terms).
BTW, I'm no mathematician, but I recall reading that--at least in theory--PageRank averages should go down as the Web expands and the "PageRank pool" is diluted. Maybe someone who's studied the original PageRank treatise in detail (and who fully understands the math involved) could comment on this.
Update is happening for sure. My homepage dropped from a 4 to a 3, and every other main page is grey barred. I did lose some link partners and thought that accounted for the drop, but update seems to be happening so...
Thought Google hated me there for a sec hehe
|PageRank averages should go down as the Web expands and the "PageRank pool" is diluted |
I think page rank average is constant, and it is equal to one ("as long as I know"). Since each webpage will be given a PR 1 ("or one point") then calculate the linking across the web to obtain the final PR for each page.
I am making the assumption that this toolbar update is the same as the process that has taken place in the past. For a long time now the toolbar update has been understood as merely updating the information available via the toolbar, and as such is a one-off snap shot of the 'real' PR. The update may not be 'complete' in the sense that the update takes time to rollout. And of course there could be bugs in the rollout process.
How can I explain YouTube's PR3? I can't, but then I also can't explain why some of YouTube's second-level pages are PR8.
|Not sure why webmasters who are happy with their status with Google tend to try to suggest that those that complain are somehow slacking. |
I wasn't making a suggestion, nor am I happy with my own PR. I was just stating the obvious. The number of websites is increasing drmatatically - just think of the explosion of the number of new websites in the Far East launched in the past few years. Any new site that has better backlinks than an existing site will be better placed than the existing site. And as the scale isn't absolute but relative, the effect is to push the existing site down the PR scale.
Getting links is now a business and getting increasingly difficult. Even existing incoming links tend to get devalued as the sites providing the links also slip down the PR scale.
|Even existing incoming links tend to get devalued as the sites providing the links also slip down the PR scale. |
The good news is that the quantity of inbound links and the quality or sources of inbound links are two different things. PR is merely one piece of baggage that a link brings with it.
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