homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 50.17.66.61
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google SEO News and Discussion
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: Robert Charlton & aakk9999 & brotherhood of lan & goodroi

Google SEO News and Discussion Forum

    
Google Directory Venting
Are they ever gonna get their act together?
Kantro

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 2:43 am on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Can someone please tell me what is going on with the Google Directory aka DMOZ? It is getting extremely frustrating dealing with this nonsense.

With all of the news about the corrupt editors, is Google still relying on DMOZ for their Directory? Let me rephrase, because the obvious answer to that one is "yes" - Does Google plan on continuing to rely on DMOZ for its Directory? Did I miss some important piece of news or is this one of the few areas where Yahoo's internet operations outshine the great Google?

My site is relatively new, and it was created during the temporary freeze of new DMOZ site listing requests. Now that they are accepting new requests I have been unable to get my site into the appropriate categories which appropriately do not have dedicated editors. And it's not like my site doesn't belong in DMOZ - it is surely a member of my niche's elite sites (content, aesthetics, everything).

In doing competitive analysis on some of the big guys in my niche, they all unfailingly possess links from Google.org and DMOZ.org, having obtained DMOZ directory listings back in the "good old days." And this is brutal b/c it just makes my job that much harder.

Is Google ever going to address the fact that their directory relies on corrupt editors and stale site listings?

 

WiseWebDude

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 4:31 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Is Google ever going to address the fact that their directory relies on corrupt editors and stale site listings?

Nope. It is a joke anymore. I used to like the idea of it, but you are right...your competitors get set as editors and, of course, you're screwed. I've submitted once a YEAR for four years and not a peep. And yes, the site deserves to be there far more than some of the crap once I've seen there now so it isn't anything like that. I wait one year...try again, never a peep. Won't try again.

Kantro

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 5:08 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

The fact that DMOZ.org is not even ranked number 1 for a Google search for the word dmoz speaks volumes in my opinion about the catastrophe that is DMOZ (aka the ODP) and Google's totally illogical reliance on it for its directory.

randle

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 5:18 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Wow, that is pretty amazing, not really sure what that says about DMOZ or Google results, but itís not good on both accounts. Anyhow, my issue with all of this has been that itís a shame Google doesnít donate some money to the ODP so it can be run better. ($50 million is lunch money to them). After all Google would not be where they are today had it not been for the ODP in the early days.

Kantro

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 5:28 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Not a bad idea, Randle - I would be surprised if they don't have something brewing over there in Mountain View to rectify the situation. I think it also shows how high up on the priority list G's directory is.

The reason I posted about this is because it seems like I'm in the minority on this issue as far as being extremely frustrated that my new-ish site can't get a fair shake. I feel like most people in the webmaster community can't feel my pain here because the overwhelming majority of webmasters probably already have their sites listed among the alleged 4,830,584 sites in DMOZ. And understandably, if you already are in DMOZ and reaping the ranking benefits, this issue doesn't affect you one bit and it would be totally off the radar screen.

In fact, if I already had my site(s) listed in DMOZ, I would probably be against a widespread overhaul of the Google Directory, for plenty of reasons including having less outbound links on a given page.

Rlilly

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 5:56 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

>>The fact that DMOZ.org is not even ranked number 1 for a Google search for the word dmoz

Correction: Dmoz does rank no 1 for word dmoz, "dmoz", Dmoz.org

Kantro

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 5:59 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Hmm...interesting. Not #1 in my search results.

[edited by: Kantro at 6:02 pm (utc) on Sep. 25, 2007]

randle

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 6:10 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Correction: Dmoz does rank no 1 for word dmoz, "dmoz", Dmoz.org

Not that it really matters but not for me, and I ran through a whole bunch of DC's on McD; I get # 3 behind even some wiki trash.

tedster

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tedster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 6:22 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

At least part of the current DMOZ fiasco may be explained by the thread g1smd started:
Re-ranking following ODP changes? ODP canonicalisation is progress [webmasterworld.com]

The reason I posted about this is because it seems like I'm in the minority on this issue as far as being extremely frustrated that my new-ish site can't get a fair shake.

I'd say that many webmasters have long noticed the trouble getting new sites entered into some DMOZ categories (and therefore into the Google Directory) - but many have given up even talking about it. The honest DMOZ editors understandably defend their actions and their directory, but unfortunately everyone's category does not have an honest editor. Some of the ones I apply to have been great and others, well, they respond like a stone.

Perhaps the canonical fix shake-up I linked to above will be the first sign of some total house-cleaning, eh? We can only hope.

Kantro

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 6:32 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Good call, Tedster.

Quick question: What happens when you submit your site to a category that doesn't have an editor (aka it says "Volunteer to edit this category)?

Do they load these unedited categories onto some other editor of related categories?

Thanks.

WW_Watcher

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 7:20 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Back, Back, Back!

Hear the whip cracking!
The ODP Haters & Cheerleaders, Back to the Directory threads where they try to keep this under control!

;-)

Back to Watching
WW_Watcher

tedster

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tedster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 7:25 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

There's apparently some real signs of life right now at dmoz - particularly increased support from AOL, who until this turnabout was ignoring their problem child. See this thread in our Directories forum:

One of the commitments recently made by AOL to the ODP Editing Community (along with the provision of several additional AOL staff, some hardware upgrades, and various ongoing software changes) was to provide a better way to get more information about the ODP out to the wider public.

So today, the ODP Blog has gone live. This blog is written by AOL Staff.

[webmasterworld.com...]

I know that past history has been enough to depress many of us beyond all hope. But with AOL stepping up their involvement, maybe there IS some hope. Certainly the ODP could be a shining beacon again.

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 7:27 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

>> The fact that DMOZ.org is not even ranked number one <<

Yes. AOL techs are aware of the technical issues that are happening with parts of the site.

It's just a simple domain canonicalisation issue, one that will now take Google a few weeks to catch up with what is going on.

cbpayne

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 7:46 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

With all of the news about the corrupt editors, is Google still relying on DMOZ for their Directory?
Have you actually been able to find one bit of evidence behind all those claims of corruption that do the round of SEO forums? Have you ever wondered why those who make the claims NEVER produce any evidence to back them up? Whenever someone makes a corrpution claim, the pack mentality takes over and it gets repeated so many times as people want to beleive its true (otherwise, why is MY site not listed?). Ever stop and take a deep breath and ask the hard question - where is the evidence? Whenever the question does get asked, the evidence is never produced and the "pack" mentaility goes after the person asking the question for the evidence ... I can never figure this out.
Kantro

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 8:12 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

cbpayne - agreed.

In this day in age, one must approach each and every random blog entry or forum post with a heavy dose of skepticism and suspicion. That is one of the only absolute certainties I know of in this industry. Clearly the flow of information and disinformation on the internet can be (and is) manipulated by many.

That said - with the overwhelming supply of *rumors* out there regarding corrupt DMOZ editors, we can draw one of two conclusions.

1) There is an inkling of truth to some of these rumors. It doesn't seem to difficult to imagine an editor or two abusing their editorial powers. Human nature.

or...

2) The people starting these rumors (and I could site 3 or 4 public internet figures/organizations who have done so) are trying to smear the good name of the ODP. I don't doubt that perhaps some of the rumors fall into this category.

But if it looks like a rat, and smells like a rat...it might be a bit naive to maintain that corruption doesn't exist in the DMOZ editorship elite just to remain faithful to skepticism for its own sake.

But point taken. I should have substituted "rumors" in place of "news" in the original post.

willybfriendly

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 8:42 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Have you actually been able to find one bit of evidence behind all those claims of corruption that do the round of SEO forums?

Yes.

And when I provided the written evidence in the form of bulk emails sent to members of a particular industry by the editor implying certain abilities to influence search engine rankings I was told that I was inferring too much from a simple email.

The editor subsequently completely redid the category and all sub-cats, moving, no, burying, any number of sites into the nether regions of the directory. I mean, we are talking 12-15 clicks deep.

When I brought this up on res0urcez0ne I was basically told to mind my own business, that it is up to the editors (with meta approval of course0 to manage their category.

THis was a few yaers ago. Interestingly, the cat doesn't have an editor anymore. I suppose he was satisfied with the changes and then moved on?

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 8:51 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

>> What happens when you submit your site to a category that doesn't have an editor <<

It shows up as waiting in that category, and is flagged in all categories in that branch all the way to the top/root of the tree.

proboscis

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 9:15 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

The reason I posted about this is because it seems like I'm in the minority on this issue as far as being extremely frustrated that my new-ish site can't get a fair shake.

I don't think you should be frustrated - at all. One of my sites had six listings in dmoz for years, then an editor delisted me around a year ago, and you know what happened? Nothing.

I didn't lose traffic or ranking in any search engine, I didn't even know that it happened for several months. And that was for 6 links that were years old and to 1 site.

I like dmoz, it's a cool idea and I use the site, but there's nothing special about "getting in" except that you might be lucky.

Kantro

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 9:31 pm on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

proboscis - that is good news, makes me feel a little bit better at least.

I think there might be a small difference though for a newer, younger site like mine. I would imagine that your site had (has) a pretty highly developed backlink profile where the loss of one link (and a directory link, at that) wouldn't do any serious damage to rankings or traffic, like you mentioned.

My site, on the other hand, is still in its growth phase as I continue aggressive link-building, and the frustration arises because I am missing what I would consider to be a "bedrock" link from the ODP. Since your site had the rankings and traffic already, losing the DMOZ link was probably equivalent in scope to scooping out a bucket of water from a swimming pool. No big deal - plenty more where that came from.

For me, I am still filling up my pool one bucket of water at a time, so the importance of each bucket (aka link) is that much more important. At least that's the way I see it.

walrus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 2:44 pm on Sep 26, 2007 (gmt 0)

proboscis - that is good news, makes me feel a little bit better at least.

Me too, I was delisted by comp as well and gave up after months of correspondence on the forum. Its nice to hear its not always the big pr boost everyone expects.

vstevens

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 3:50 pm on Sep 26, 2007 (gmt 0)

"but you are right...your competitors get set as editors and, of course, you're screwed."

Well said Wisewebdude. DMOZ IS A JOKE. I cant believe any significant search engine would rely on the DMOZ directory to influence any ranking as a viable and trusted source. Its completely biased and every topic is run by your corrupt & motivated competitors.

Like someone would volunteers in your category just to see better results in todays age? That makes no sense.

IMO, What they need to do is:

1. Remove Any Biases:
Have all paid employees run this who have no websites and no affiliations. If AOL & Goog throwing money why not here?

2. Quality Control:
Review performance of each category editor at least 1x per quarter and preferably every month. Review suspect additions or aNY OTHER NON quality. approvals

Maybe even have vote process by non category editors for final submission and majority rules.

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 7:35 pm on Sep 26, 2007 (gmt 0)

>> Its completely biased and every topic is run by your corrupt & motivated competitors. <<

I would like to see you explain how 7000 active editors run the site like that, when there are almost 700 000 categories, 90% of which have no listed editor name in the footer.

proboscis

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 7:42 pm on Sep 26, 2007 (gmt 0)

DMOZ IS A JOKE. I cant believe any significant search engine would rely on the DMOZ directory to influence any ranking as a viable and trusted source.

I really don't think DMOZ listings do influence the rankings much.

Like I said, I lost six listings to my main site and nothing happened, and the editor who delisted my main business site also delisted my personal site which wasn't nearly as strong but was receiving a respectable amount of traffic for what it was, that site didn't suffer at all either...

tedster

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tedster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3459848 posted 8:08 pm on Sep 26, 2007 (gmt 0)

Enough venting - this is a topic that usually produces little of value. Given the current changes, I think we did better than usual here, but now we're just degenerating.

Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google SEO News and Discussion
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved