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Run of Site Links - if indexed, do they "count"?
JoeHouse




msg:3435931
 8:51 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

I have a question that I have been curious about for some time now.

We keep hearing that google no longer considers Run of Site links from one domain.

However my question is this. If you go to google and check your backlink count on google and all the backlinks from the run of site show up on google as backlinks, do they all count?

Do they all count as a vote? Do you get full credit on all those backlinks because they all show up on google command link:mydomain.com?

 

steveb




msg:3435963
 9:27 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

"We keep hearing that google no longer considers Run of Site links from one domain."

Stop listening to whoever you are "hearing" this stuff from. So much nonsense FUD is spread on this topic. Of course Google pays attention to run of the site links. Is the 10,000th link from a domain as valuable as the first? Probably not, but who cares?

tedster




msg:3435968
 9:33 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

Agreed.

And for the other side of the question, there is no certainty that every link Google returns in the link: query is being given a "full vote" either. I've seen links their that do not pass PR at all.

ronin100




msg:3436001
 10:03 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

Tedster,
With all due respect - how would joe webmaster (me) figure out if the links listed in GG "link" search (which are precious few compared to Y! for e.g.) carry or don't carry any PR? Sorry if this is a dumb question but I can't recall that ability to discern stated before?
Thanks!

JoeHouse




msg:3436057
 11:52 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

Good point ronin100 I was wondering the same thing myself.

I was figuring, if it was important enough for google to add it to their backlink count then there must be some value, and thus must pass PageRank.

tedster




msg:3436066
 12:18 am on Aug 30, 2007 (gmt 0)

It's not an easy thing. The only examples I've had were very clear-cut test cases - for example, a young an unpromoted site with very few other factors cluttering the picture. They got nice fat PR8 link in the content area with no other outbounds on the page. No ranking improvement whatsoever, and then there was a PR update three weeks later - no PR boost for the target page, it stayed at zero.

Such clearcut test situations are rare - but I noted it because I saw it. We can just recognize that seeing backlinks in the link: query is not a guarantee of anything.

Even if there was an easy way to see that a url wasn't passing on any juice, there's still nothing you can do about it, anyway, right?

JoeHouse




msg:3436643
 2:56 pm on Aug 30, 2007 (gmt 0)

Here is what I know, lets talk real facts here instead of speculations.

When I noticed that my competitor is ranking well for a specific keyword on google, I do a backlink check on their site to see what exactly is going on.

I will see sticking out like a sore thumb multiple links from one site (Run of Site) pointing to my competitor's domain in which all the anchor text is the same.

Now when I do check the domain that my competitor has its links on I also notice that the homepage linking to him would be an 8 and then several other internal pages (about 20 pages) linking to him from this same domain are 5,6 and 7.

Finally on this same domain pointing to my competitor's website there are an additonal several hundred pages with little or no PR pointing to him.

All these links are included in google's backlink count for my competitor's website.

Just this site alone which links point to my competitor gives him far and above more backlinks on google then anybody else fighting for this keyword prhase has.

As a result number 1 ranking on google in our industry for this very competitive keyword. Now you are probably saying to yourself there must be other factors? That may be true but with everything be equal I strongly believe this is why he is ranking so well.

This run of site that is linking to him appears to be an authority site in which he must be paying a pretty penny for it.

My point is that he has found an authority site that google loves and if you have a link on it you will be very well rewarded for it.

Conclusion and Fact.....Pagerank and linking to Authority Sites still play a major roll in keyword ranking on google. You just have to find out which one google really likes.

wanderingmind




msg:3437020
 8:59 pm on Aug 30, 2007 (gmt 0)

I am happy if its not considered a negative and neither of the sites are penalised.

cabbie




msg:3437119
 11:25 pm on Aug 30, 2007 (gmt 0)

Matt Cutts somewhere on his blog confirmed that just because a link shows in their list of backlinks, it doesn't mean it counts for anything.He affirms that there are backlinks that show that don't actually have any weight to them.
So its not speculation.

StickyNote




msg:3437128
 11:42 pm on Aug 30, 2007 (gmt 0)

lets talk real facts here instead of speculations

I strongly believe this is why he is ranking so well

hmmm...

JoeHouse




msg:3437162
 12:29 am on Aug 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

OK Correction.

This is exactly why he is ranking so well.

Miamacs




msg:3437552
 12:06 pm on Aug 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

...

Yeah well, "run of the site" could mean anything from 50 links to 50.000 links.

From on topic ( same theme ) to completely off topic to forums to spam.

From authorities ( high trust, highly relevant ), to just everyday sites to low PR/virtually unknown ones downright to pages not even indexed.

From an unindexed, unrecognized footer link to a prominent place in the navigation.

Could be a legit part contributing to a HUGE and well developed, diverse, healthy linking profile, or cause a fatal penalty in a stupid attempt to kickstart a brand new domain.

...

If at any given point in the life cycle of a website...

- more than 40-49% of its backlinks are same anchor text
- from pages that are crawled and indexed of course
- if will most likely fall.

If a site gets a lot of links with a competitive phrase from off-topic irrelevant pages...

- in case these links carry more weight ( PR/trust/(ir)relevancy ) than the rest of the linking profile
- or these links basically outnumber anything else in the linking profile
- the site will go down, and won't stop until -950

If you see links pointing to it in Yahoo! or with whatever you check them...

- make sure to check if those pages are actually indexed by Google
- see if they rank for what they target
- if so, see if they rank for what the outbound links target
- if the asnwer to either of the first two is NO... the page doesn't carry too much weight.
- if the answer to the third is NO...
- rest assured these links have nothing to do with that sire ranking well.

...

If you found the links, and you're 51% positive about it that those are the few that really did break the ice for someone else...

- they could have been bought
- they could have been barteled
- could be that they're good friends
- could be that the site is theirs
- could be they entered some kind of media partnership
- could be an advertisement ( not an intentionally bought link )
- could be a completely legit admiration
- user friendly link, on topic, to help visitors

...

SO.

In conclusion:

if indexed, do they count?
Yes, sometimes as the final blow, sometimes as a contribution to ranking well.
I definitely don't see them pass n times the trust, mind you.
That I meant parameter-wise.
From the perspective of users' trust ( the feeling ), if it's an obvious partnership it's not only OK... it's *the* thing to do.

If you want to have what the others are having...
Get the same or better for your site as well.
If you thought about complaining, well... don't.
Contact the websites and ask, right?

...

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